Is Jesus a Christian?

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May 15, 2013
4,307
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#41
The old testament was the physical concept of what was done in the spiritual realm, and which Jesus was teaching in the spiritual nature of the old testament.

John 3:5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. (Water represent the physical birth, and the spirit represent the spiritual birth.)


John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
(This verse is saying that the physical nature doesn't benefited nothing, but the spiritual nature does and which the spiritual Baptism is the true Baptism.)

Matthew 26:41
“Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
The earth has been born from water and we were born from the earth. Cause God didn't created water during the six days of creation, He just separated the water from the water which was a earth crust that was between the waters that were on top of it that were the the great lake ( which was gather together in one spot of the earth.) and rivers ( and which spreaded from the the great lake.); and the waters that was underneath the crust. so that is why we were born from water.

Genesis 1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

Genesis 1:7
So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so.

Genesis 1:9
And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.
 
Mar 10, 2013
329
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#42
Jesus was/is a Jew. Not only a Jew but the King of the Jews. His heritage is presented in scripture. IF you accept Jesus as your king what it actually means is you have become a Jew. You might prefer to call yourselves Christian or whatever.

Whose King is HE? king of Christians? no. King of americans? no. ITs not all that difficult to understand is it?
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#43
No ! the words and wisdom was available for everyone's .
The teaching was for the whole world not for a specific category of peoples .
I thought there might be more to this than I saw at first. Are you saying that Jesus should not be considered a Christian, since His ministry is for more people than the Christians?
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#44
so, because Messianic Jews won't call themselves Christian because it involves something gentile, this is a good thing?

I never said it was good, just that hearing it gives me appreciation for how some people might think Jesus is not Christian.

and no, Christianity and Judaism have ZERO in common.

I'll leave that one to you and Red Tent.

since we haven't provided a definition of Judaism which would take us back to the Old Testament and up to Christ's Day, i guess nearly everyone here is assuming Judaism today is Biblical Torah.

it's not. it's the very religion Jesus condemned, and that religion condemns Jesus today.

Can anyone hang on name on what religion Jesus was?
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#45
Or people ask was Jesus a Christian, and if he wasn't does that mean calling ourselves a Christian is wrong?
.
That was not my purpose in asking. It is entirely possible that "Christian" is a perfectly good name for followers of Jesus, but not for Jesus Himself.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#46
The verse says that it is enough that Jesus is a Jew. But if we take it in that context, then since it is only 10 men per Jew, it seems to suggest none of us need to be Christian.
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#47
I was showing you the style how people distinguish each other.
I think this is what the whole discussion is really about.

And I think it is good that we realize that there are so many ways of distinguishing each other. Most of us call ourselves Christian. I think it's becoming pretty obvious that not only doesn't every agree on what that word means, but also we do not agree on how and when to use such a term or any other like it.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,725
3,661
113
#48
outstanding. thank you.
of course, as is the case today with anything written by jewish believers that says these things, this book is out of print, or there are no readily available reviews (and i saw one link warning publishers against publishing this author!)

but i did find this...where Byers is quoted with permission.

Christians and the law of Moses
Part 1
Jim Bramlett

Christians and the law of Moses < click

saving.
thanks crossnote.
i hope everyone reads this little bit, even.

unity can come from knowing this! how can we not know this??

look how far some have fallen from truth!
the very thing we were warned of! the leaven of the Pharisees.
tsk.

zone
Ewww,this book is hard to find new but if one emails Hebron Ministries or Hebron Press they may be able to connect you to one. Otherwise a used copy off abebooks or wherever is well worth the ching-ching. Written by a Messianic Jew/missionary to Guatemala he truly brings out the strengths and weaknesses of that movement.
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#49
Jesus was/is a Jew. Not only a Jew but the King of the Jews. His heritage is presented in scripture. IF you accept Jesus as your king what it actually means is you have become a Jew. You might prefer to call yourselves Christian or whatever.

Whose King is HE? king of Christians? no. King of americans? no. ITs not all that difficult to understand is it?
If we are willing to move past the inscription of the charge laid against the Lord Jesus at His crucifixion, we see things like these:

which He will bring about at the proper time-- He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords (1 Tim. 6:15)

These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful." (Rev. 17:14)

And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Rev. 19:16)

Is Christ not King over the whole earth, and all the people in it?
Or is He King of Jews only?
 
P

psychomom

Guest
#50
(apologies for the derailment, Ken. :eek:)
 
D

didymos

Guest
#51
This is indeed an interesting spin off of another topic:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/65911-similarities-between-christianity-judaism.html#post1060988

To summarize what I said there:

'Christianity' only came to be AFTER Jesus walked the earth, it’s a historical phenomenon that started with (among others) Paul's interpretation of Jesus' words and resurrection. Followers of Christ were first named ‘christians’ in Antioch (Acts 11:26).

You cannot say Jesus belonged to that movement: calling Him a christian would lead to weird dogmatic problems. For instance: if we consider Christ to be a part of that movement, does that mean He's worshiping Himself? Jesus was first and foremost a jew, and we accepted His teachings as they were interpreted later on, especially by Paul.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#52
I've watched a show called "Discovering the Jewish Jesus" for about 5 years. I've never seen anything that did not line up with scripture. The purpose of the show is to inform of how the Old Testament and New Testament complement each other. Some use the phrase "The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed."

Would you reference the scripture with regard to Jesus condemning oral trafitions from Babylon? My voice is gentle, it's difficult sometimes on paper to ask a question that doesn't sound like an accusation hurled.

BTW I loved "Tapestry" whoops, my age is showing:)
Mark 7:13
Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

....

my early concern (and it remains) was that people don't know what it means when we say someone is Jewish; we don't know what Judaism is, and so on. consequently some of us will always be talking at cross-purposes.

Galatians 1:14
I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

i guess we have to want to know what it all means.
k....love zone

Revelation 17:5
And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.”

the quagmire involved in discovering what this simple passage means is an indication of how long the cover-up/disinfo/confusion has been going on.
the above is referring to Jerusalem (of the first century).
 
Last edited:
Mar 4, 2013
7,761
107
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#53
Wow... This is a loaded question. Christian means to be Christ like. I'll answer it with a series of questions if I may. Is Christ Christ like? Is Isaiah Isaiah like? am I like myself? Back when I was young, hippies went to find themselves. I never had to do that.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#54
Would you reference the scripture with regard to Jesus condemning oral trafitions from Babylon?
if you have access to a Bible which gives parallel passages you can find all the references to the conflict Jesus had with the scribes and Pharisees, specifically in regards to their religion. then you can move outward from there. they (and other sects) had basically mixed ancient Mystery Religions in with I AM's Word.

here a basic intro from wiki (the half-truth source:rolleyes:)
this is a very complex subject, which involves by default studying some occult material (Kabbalah etc), since it's part & parcel. proceed carefully.

the point is, we should be able to discern pretty quickly that our Bibles do not record God handing down a set of Oral Laws to Moses which were transmitted privately through a few select special families.

He didn't of course, not in the way Judaism claims.

clearly, as John says there were many more things Jesus said and did that are not recorded. similarly it would have been with any of our OT Biblical characters and their generations.

but that's a far cry from what the Pharisees claim.



The Oral Torah comprises the legal and interpretative traditions that, according to tradition, were transmitted orally from Mount Sinai, and were not written in the Torah. According to Rabbinic Judaism, the oral Torah, oral Law, or oral tradition (Hebrew: תורה שבעל פה, Torah she-be-`al peh) was given by God orally to Moses in conjunction with the written Torah (Hebrew: תורה שבכתב, Torah she-bi-khtav), after which it was passed down orally through the ages.[1][2] Later to be codified and written in the Talmud (Hebrew :תַּלְמוּד ). While other cultures and Jewish groups maintained oral traditions, only the Rabbis gave ideological significance to the fact that they transmitted their tradition orally.[3]

Rabbis of the Talmudic era conceived of the Oral Torah in two distinct ways. First, Rabbinic tradition conceived of the Oral Torah as an unbroken chain of transmission. The distinctive feature of this view was that Oral Torah was "conveyed by word of mouth and memorized."[4] Second, the Rabbis also conceived of the Oral Torah as an interpretive tradition, and not merely as memorized traditions. In this view, the written Torah was seen as containing many levels of interpretation. It was left to later generations, who were steeped in the oral tradition of interpretation to discover those ("hidden") interpretations not revealed by Moses.[5] According to many, the "oral Torah" was ultimately recorded in the Mishnah, the Talmud and Midrash. In his introduction to Mishneh Torah Maimonides provides a generation by generation account of the names of all those in the direct line that transmitted this tradition, beginning with Moses up until Ravina and Rav Ashi, the rabbis who compiled the Babylonian Talmud.

Oral Torah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


The Talmud (/ˈtɑːlmʊd, -məd, ˈtæl-/; Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד talmūd "instruction, learning", from a root lmd "teach, study") is a central text of Rabbinic Judaism, considered second to the Torah. It is also traditionally referred to as Shas (ש״ס), a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, the "six orders" of the Oral Law of Judaism. The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law, and the Gemara (c. 500 CE), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible. The terms Talmud and Gemara are often used interchangeably, though strictly speaking that is not accurate.

The whole Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in standard print is over 6,200 pages long. It is written in Tannaitic Hebrew and Aramaic. The Talmud contains the opinions of thousands of rabbis on a variety of subjects, including law, ethics, philosophy, customs, history, theology, lore and many other topics. The Talmud is the basis for all codes of rabbinic law and is much quoted in other rabbinic literature.

Talmud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


In Judaism, Pharisees were at various times a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought among Jews during the Second Temple period beginning under the Hasmonean dynasty (140–37 BCE) in the wake of the Maccabean Revolt.

The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.

Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

....

so basically, that's really all that's important to know.

that Judaism is a parallel religion to the Old Testament faith and record of The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
in many respects it is in direct opposition to it.

though it's not readily admitted publically, when Judaism references "the Torah" they mean of FIRST importance their Oral Torah/Traditions and secondarily the written OT texts. The OT texts play a very little role in mainstream Judaism - why? because they testify of Jesus! if those texts were studied and the Lord was willing, Jesus would be revealed.

when we use the term Torah, we mean the Pentateuch, or the whole body of OT written texts ONLY - and we could even say together with our NT doctrines revealing Messiah and the Church. but because of this confusion about what Judaism is, we're safer and it's simpler to not go there at all.

there are individual jews who hold and love the OT, and i have read of some (and know a few) who have come to see Jesus through those scriptures. which is just how Jesus said it MUST be*. there's also a sect within Judaism, or labeled as Judaism, which rejects any of the Oral Traditions (Talmud and related texts which were written down AFTER JESUS came):


Karaite Judaism or Karaism (/ˈkærə.aɪt/ or /ˈkærə.ɪzəm/; Hebrew: יהדות קראית , Modern Yahadut Qara'it Tiberian Qārāʾîm ; meaning "Readers (of the Hebrew Scriptures)")[1] is a Jewish movement characterized by the recognition of the Tanakh alone as its supreme legal authority in Halakha (Jewish religious law) and theology. It is distinct from mainstream Rabbinic Judaism, which considers the Oral Torah, the legal decisions of the Sanhedrin as codified in the Talmud, and subsequent works to be authoritative interpretations of the Torah. Karaites maintain that all of the divine commandments handed down to Moses by God were recorded in the written Torah, without additional Oral Law or explanation. As a result, Karaite Jews do not accept as binding the written collections of the oral tradition in the Mishnah or Talmud.

Karaite Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


here's any example of Jesus in conflict with the Pharisees.
maybe His words make more sense when we know the background a bit more.


John 5
Testimonies About Jesus

31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41“I do not accept glory from human beings, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only Godd ?

45“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

.....

to each their own choices concerning religions.
we have thousands of religions in the world.

the only reason i keep this issue going is precisely because we don't seem to understand that Judaism is NOT just sort of Moses without Jesus kinda thing.

not at all.

and even that is not my business aside from the Great Commission.
where it becomes our business as Christians is when we do not understand that Judaism is in reality hostile to Christ and Christianity and we insist on mixing it in with Christianity in any number of ways...AND/OR giving some sort of spiritual PASS to Judaism thinking it's our religion.

bad idea. very bad.

okay.
ttyl.
 

Drett

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#55
One thing I have learnt since I come to this chat. Some Christians (I assume are Christians) think Judaism and Christianity are similar. A real surprise. Sorry please continue.
 
A

Ascension

Guest
#56
Yes , exactly .
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#57
Jesus was/is a Jew. Not only a Jew but the King of the Jews. His heritage is presented in scripture. IF you accept Jesus as your king what it actually means is you have become a Jew. You might prefer to call yourselves Christian or whatever.

Whose King is HE? king of Christians? no. King of americans? no. ITs not all that difficult to understand is it?
hi joe.
no, it isn't.
but we have a competing parallel religion which as you know does not accept Jesus as King.
and there have been centuries of muddying what it means to be a jew, even though we are told from our very own Scriptures.
so though the topic comes up, it's crucial we understand which is true FOR US and which is not.
it's very difficult. because people who identify as jews are (understandably) offended and confused when Christians (gentiles especially) call themselves jews.

its a discussion for christians who understand the meaning, as given to us by the Lord.
there's an extreme danger in not grasping the spiritual here - long story short, and it's happening every day - christians are completely defecting from Christianity (being jews inwardly) trading this for something they think is greater.

there are principalities and powers which would love to see christians sever themselves from Grace - this area is one way it's done.
call me old skool i guess. caution strongly advised.

:)
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#58
if you have access to a Bible which gives parallel passages you can find all the references to the conflict Jesus had with the scribes and Pharisees, specifically in regards to their religion. then you can move outward from there. they (and other sects) had basically mixed ancient Mystery Religions in with I AM's Word.

here a basic intro from wiki (the half-truth source:rolleyes:)
this is a very complex subject, which involves by default studying some occult material (Kabbalah etc), since it's part & parcel. proceed carefully.

the point is, we should be able to discern pretty quickly that our Bibles do not record God handing down a set of Oral Laws to Moses which were transmitted privately through a few select special families.

He didn't of course, not in the way Judaism claims.

clearly, as John says there were many more things Jesus said and did that are not recorded. similarly it would have been with any of our OT Biblical characters and their generations.

but that's a far cry from what the Pharisees claim.



The Oral Torah comprises the legal and interpretative traditions that, according to tradition, were transmitted orally from Mount Sinai, and were not written in the Torah. According to Rabbinic Judaism, the oral Torah, oral Law, or oral tradition (Hebrew: תורה שבעל פה, Torah she-be-`al peh) was given by God orally to Moses in conjunction with the written Torah (Hebrew: תורה שבכתב, Torah she-bi-khtav), after which it was passed down orally through the ages.[1][2] Later to be codified and written in the Talmud (Hebrew :תַּלְמוּד ). While other cultures and Jewish groups maintained oral traditions, only the Rabbis gave ideological significance to the fact that they transmitted their tradition orally.[3]

Rabbis of the Talmudic era conceived of the Oral Torah in two distinct ways. First, Rabbinic tradition conceived of the Oral Torah as an unbroken chain of transmission. The distinctive feature of this view was that Oral Torah was "conveyed by word of mouth and memorized."[4] Second, the Rabbis also conceived of the Oral Torah as an interpretive tradition, and not merely as memorized traditions. In this view, the written Torah was seen as containing many levels of interpretation. It was left to later generations, who were steeped in the oral tradition of interpretation to discover those ("hidden") interpretations not revealed by Moses.[5] According to many, the "oral Torah" was ultimately recorded in the Mishnah, the Talmud and Midrash. In his introduction to Mishneh Torah Maimonides provides a generation by generation account of the names of all those in the direct line that transmitted this tradition, beginning with Moses up until Ravina and Rav Ashi, the rabbis who compiled the Babylonian Talmud.

Oral Torah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


The Talmud (/ˈtɑːlmʊd, -məd, ˈtæl-/; Hebrew: תַּלְמוּד talmūd "instruction, learning", from a root lmd "teach, study") is a central text of Rabbinic Judaism, considered second to the Torah. It is also traditionally referred to as Shas (ש״ס), a Hebrew abbreviation of shisha sedarim, the "six orders" of the Oral Law of Judaism. The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (Hebrew: משנה, c. 200 CE), the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law, and the Gemara (c. 500 CE), an elucidation of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Hebrew Bible. The terms Talmud and Gemara are often used interchangeably, though strictly speaking that is not accurate.

The whole Talmud consists of 63 tractates, and in standard print is over 6,200 pages long. It is written in Tannaitic Hebrew and Aramaic. The Talmud contains the opinions of thousands of rabbis on a variety of subjects, including law, ethics, philosophy, customs, history, theology, lore and many other topics. The Talmud is the basis for all codes of rabbinic law and is much quoted in other rabbinic literature.

Talmud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


In Judaism, Pharisees were at various times a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought among Jews during the Second Temple period beginning under the Hasmonean dynasty (140–37 BCE) in the wake of the Maccabean Revolt.

The sages of the Talmud see a direct link between themselves and the Pharisees, and historians generally consider Pharisaic Judaism to be the progenitor of Rabbinic Judaism, that is normative, mainstream Judaism after the destruction of the Second Temple. All mainstream forms of Judaism today consider themselves heirs of Rabbinic Judaism and, ultimately, the Pharisees.

Pharisees - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

....

so basically, that's really all that's important to know.

that Judaism is a parallel religion to the Old Testament faith and record of The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
in many respects it is in direct opposition to it.

though it's not readily admitted publically, when Judaism references "the Torah" they mean of FIRST importance their Oral Torah/Traditions and secondarily the written OT texts. The OT texts play a very little role in mainstream Judaism - why? because they testify of Jesus! if those texts were studied and the Lord was willing, Jesus would be revealed.

when we use the term Torah, we mean the Pentateuch, or the whole body of OT written texts ONLY - and we could even say together with our NT doctrines revealing Messiah and the Church. but because of this confusion about what Judaism is, we're safer and it's simpler to not go there at all.

there are individual jews who hold and love the OT, and i have read of some (and know a few) who have come to see Jesus through those scriptures. which is just how Jesus said it MUST be*. there's also a sect within Judaism, or labeled as Judaism, which rejects any of the Oral Traditions (Talmud and related texts which were written down AFTER JESUS came):


Karaite Judaism or Karaism (/ˈkærə.aɪt/ or /ˈkærə.ɪzəm/; Hebrew: יהדות קראית , Modern Yahadut Qara'it Tiberian Qārāʾîm ; meaning "Readers (of the Hebrew Scriptures)")[1] is a Jewish movement characterized by the recognition of the Tanakh alone as its supreme legal authority in Halakha (Jewish religious law) and theology. It is distinct from mainstream Rabbinic Judaism, which considers the Oral Torah, the legal decisions of the Sanhedrin as codified in the Talmud, and subsequent works to be authoritative interpretations of the Torah. Karaites maintain that all of the divine commandments handed down to Moses by God were recorded in the written Torah, without additional Oral Law or explanation. As a result, Karaite Jews do not accept as binding the written collections of the oral tradition in the Mishnah or Talmud.

Karaite Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click


here's any example of Jesus in conflict with the Pharisees.
maybe His words make more sense when we know the background a bit more.


John 5
Testimonies About Jesus

31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41“I do not accept glory from human beings, 42but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only Godd ?

45“But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

.....

to each their own choices concerning religions.
we have thousands of religions in the world.

the only reason i keep this issue going is precisely because we don't seem to understand that Judaism is NOT just sort of Moses without Jesus kinda thing.

not at all.

and even that is not my business aside from the Great Commission.
where it becomes our business as Christians is when we do not understand that Judaism is in reality hostile to Christ and Christianity and we insist on mixing it in with Christianity in any number of ways...AND/OR giving some sort of spiritual PASS to Judaism thinking it's our religion.

bad idea. very bad.

okay.
ttyl.
Thank you, Zone, I appreciate your well thought out response and there are points in which we differ that I will consider, however I will add this:

Matthew 23:37
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jesus felt compassion for them, viewed them as lost sheep. Yes, I'll agree that there were/are strange Jewish sects but the same is true of "Christianity" (it's an umbrella that many place anyone who mentions the name of Jesus) really off the wall i.e. the goofies that handle snakes (saw a special on natgeo years ago about them)

When I'm unclear about the meaning of a particular passage or specific verse, I consider who it was written to, was it a specific answer to a specific question, in a nutshell, context, context, context. I do have a Strong's so I can look up the original Hebrew or Greek and there are a multitude of sites for the viewing of parallell translations.

Anyway, that you for your input and God bless us all.:)
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
#59
"Anyway, that you for your input and God bless us all.:) " should have been thank you .
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,725
3,661
113
#60
Then where is the Church Jesus promised to build? hehe