Is justification by faith alone?

Charlie24 · Jun 28, 2014

There are misconceptions on faith alone. Paul said that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

To have faith we must first hear the Gospel. Then we realize we are a sinner in need of a Saviour. The Gospel demands repentance, through repentance we confess Christ as Saviour.

Faith includes hearing the Gospel, believing the Gospel, repenting of our sins, and confessing Christ.

This is what is meant when we say "faith alone."

It's not just believing Jesus Christ is the Son Of God. The devils believe and tremble.

The difference between a believing devil and a believing Christian is that we have repented, the devils have not.

Billyd · Jun 28, 2014

I have a couple of questions. What is the difference between Salvation and Justification? How does one relate to the other?

peacefulbeliever · Jun 28, 2014

Roaster said:

What way "was it formerly improperly taught"?

I will speak for myself because I know what is in me and I know what a battle it is between my flesh and my spirit . . . I don't think I will reach that pinnacle before Christ return. I still have trouble with anger, patience, self discipline, just thoughts in general towards others (you know - man, is he just slow or really that dumb) - these thoughts come before I even have time to stop them!!!! Geez, I hope I am not the only one still fighting the fight, running the race, just getting through each day!!!!
Just being honest here . . If it wasn't for the fact that I am justified by what Jesus Christ accomplished through my faith in him . . . . I'd still be out there "lost" somewhere.

peacefulbeliever · Jun 28, 2014

Billyd said:

Salvation is confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and believing that God raised him from the dead . . . You are saved - made whole and within that wholeness comes righteousness, justification, sanctification and redemption.

Charlie24 · Jun 28, 2014

Billyd said:

Justification means to be declared innocent of all charges. It is associated with salvation.

Salvation means to be dilivered from sin. If you ask me it is basically the same.

I can say, I have been saved, or I can say, I have been justified. It's the same.

I suppose you could get technical about it though and break it down.

I could say, when I was saved I was declared innocent of all my sins. Which is to say, when I received salvation I was justified before God. But salvation is being justified before God. So...... round and round we go.

eternally-gratefull · Jun 28, 2014

Billyd said:

Salvation is a result of justification.

Justification is a legal term which means declared righteous, or innocent of wrong doing.

We are justified by Christ, Declared innocent, because our sin debt was paid) and as a result, we are saved from eternal wrath and judgment.

dcontroversal · Jun 28, 2014

Billyd said:

Salvation means to be preserved/saved from harm or loss
Justification is a legal term and means to be rendered innocent and or legally justified

Saved---->justified---->sanctified is the order! All found in the perfect faith of Christ and his saving grace!

Billyd · Jun 28, 2014

[TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD]I thought that it would be interesting to know what we are arguing. Here is the Greek translations for the word for each.

salvation:
[SIZE=+1]swthriva [/SIZE]Soteria (so-tay-ree'-ah);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 4991
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation
1. deliverance from the molestation of enemies
2. in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the souls safety or salvation
  1. of Messianic salvation
salvation as the present possession of all true Christians
future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.

Fourfold salvation: saved from the penalty, power, presence and mostimportantly the pleasure of sin. A.W. Pink [TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]KJV Word Usage and Count[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]salvation[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]the (one) be saved[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]deliver[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]health[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]saving[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]that (one) be saved + (1519)[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

justification:
[TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD][SIZE=+1]dikaivwsiß [/SIZE]Dikaiosis (dik-ah'-yo-sis);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Feminine, Strong #: 1347[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

the act of God declaring men free from guilt and acceptable to him
abjuring to be righteous, justification

[TABLE="class: MainVerseTable"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]KJV Word Usage and Count[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]justification[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I believe the second definition applies here. It is the act of defining our salvation. Salvation is by grace by (through) faith. We spend the remaining of our life justifying (by the same faith that saved us) that Salvation. We are not saved by works, we justify our Salvation through works. It is that justification that brings others to Salvation. God knows our hearts at the time we are saved.

Over the years I have found that when I don't understand two seemingly conflicting terms, the best way to resolve that conflict is to go to the original definitions. It helps me reduce the impact of my personal opinion on the terms as I read them in different scripture.

Roaster · Jun 28, 2014

peacefulbeliever said:

What way "was it formerly improperly taught"?

I have answered that. It was taught from many a pulpit that it is impossible to overcome this flesh in this life, often even using those exact words.

Not only is that a flat out lie based in ignorance of God's word, but it is dangerous to teach, for you well know that most are not going to bother trying to do what they believe to be impossible.

You describe yourself as trying and that is fine. But the opposite of trying is to slide backward into sin. There is no holding place on the hill of our climb toward God's righteousness. We are either making that climb or we are sliding backwards.

And when we do not believe something is possible it is all too easy to become complacent toward it. Why try if it is impossible? And if we are not supposed to try then why all of the abundant counsel which tells us to try? And how could we obey the following: 2 Peter 3:14 "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

That means without spot and blameless in our flesh, too:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

So what if we are one that has a bit harder road to travel in this than others (or at least seem to in our own mind)?

Does that rule out that nobody else is able? Or, in the sense that misery loves company, is that just what we would like to believe?

It won't matter once we all get there. And we can now be grateful for the ones who have gotten there ahead of us as they are a wealth of help to us if we would allow them to be.

Roaster · Jun 28, 2014

I will give you this much:

There are times where the scriptures do speak of us as saved in the moment. In other words, our former course which could have already brought about our death has not brought about our death. We are saved in the moment from that death by the merciful grace of God.

Now we must understand the purpose of God saving us in this moment that we now put the rest of our time in this life to use in putting on Christ and his holiness that we not be found necked at his coming and made ashamed or even worse.

psychomom · Jun 29, 2014

peacefulbeliever said:

you're not alone, pb.

last week i heard a pastor say, "Cheer up! You're a lot worse off than you think you are!"
(tongue in cheek statement, mostly)

but, honestly, sin runs so deep many folks don't give it a thought.
i think that's what the Lord Jesus was trying to say, sermon on the mount-wise.
it would be easy for us to believe that if the externals are under control, it's all good.

but sin's never just about the externals, as you rightly point out in your post.

cheers!

newbirth · Jun 29, 2014

Roaster said:

Don't worry scripture will support those words...Some people believe when they are born again in Christ all their future sins are wiped away...vs 9
[SUP]2Pet 1
3 [/SUP]According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

RedTent · Jun 29, 2014

Going back to the original question, it is simply scripture that we are saved and justified by the biblical meaning of faith alone. That means that whatever we think and do is based on God's plan for us, everything.

We still have 66 books of scripture telling us about the God we have faith in, with every verse having layers of information and meaning. It even requires the Holy Spirit working in us to understand what we have faith in, and then we are told we see darkly.

newbirth · Jun 30, 2014

RedTent said:

Going back to the original question, it is simply scripture that we are saved and justified by the biblical meaning of faith alone. That means that whatever we think and do is based on God's plan for us, everything.

We still have 66 books of scripture telling us about the God we have faith in, with every verse having layers of information and meaning. It even requires the Holy Spirit working in us to understand what we have faith in, and then we are told we see darkly.

We are saved by grace through faith....not faith alone ...faith without works is dead

eternally-gratefull · Jun 30, 2014

newbirth said:

we are saved by faith.. plus what? where in eph does it say anything other than faith.. Oh wait, thats right, grace.

there is no faith in james, only mere belief. you can not be saved by mere belief, it takes faith.

abraham believed and it was accounted to him for righteousness (justification) this occured BEFORE he was circumcised, and almost 30 years before he sacrificed his son. He was saved before his did his first work..

nice try though.

mailmandan · Jun 30, 2014

newbirth said:

We are saved through faith in Christ alone and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) yet not by an empty profession of faith that demonstrates by the lack of works (alone in that sense) that it's dead (James 2:14). Man is saved through faith and not by works, yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works. This is the balance that tends to get out of balance.

BradC · Jun 30, 2014

Yes we are saved and justified instantly by grace through faith in the cross and finished work of Christ, but it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure...

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

amp [Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and delight.

Our faith works by love and it is the love of God in us through the Spirit that motivates us in God's labor of love and good works. God brings us to that place that we not only have the love of God active in us by faith but desire to will and to do of God's good pleasure. This is when our faith becomes active in those things that please Him instead of having a dormant faith unmotivated by the love of God. A believer can have faith in the cross and be saved by grace and not be motivated by the love of God to do good works, but God will be faithful to what He has promised and will never leave or forsake that believer who has trusted in the cross of Christ.

2Thewaters · Jun 30, 2014

Justification by faith that works repentance.

without repentance no man will see God

eternally-gratefull · Jun 30, 2014

2Thewaters said:

without repentance, it is impossible to have faith. Only mere belief.

Yet neither repentance or faith are works of men but works of God.

newbirth · Jun 30, 2014

mailmandan said:

where did the alone come from...saved by grace, saved by grace , saved by grace,,,through faith....meditate...faith ...without ,,,works ...is ...dead...through faith means confessing Christ as LORD, through faith means knowing the holy scriptures, through faith means obeying him...
John 12:42
Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Is justification by faith alone?

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