Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

Eccl12and13 · Sep 15, 2012

God's word tells us that the blood of animals just could not get the job of removing sins done. Let's read...

Heb.10
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

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Eccl12and13 · Sep 15, 2012

newcovenantchristian said:

This is correct..

Heb.9
[26] For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Because of His sacrifice...in the END of the world...there will be no sin. For we know this is not the case now. For that is who Jesus is going to come and punish when He returns....SINNERS! Those that break the commandments and laws of God.

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Eccl12and13 · Sep 15, 2012

newcovenantchristian said:

God's word does not support this claim. Let's read what God's word tells us of those that continue to break His laws AFTER coming into the knowledge of His truths;

Heb.10
[26] For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[27] But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[28] He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
[30] For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Now let's confirm;

Heb.6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

God does have mercy...but it will not last forever. At some point God is going to return.....having given ALL men the chance to accept Him. But upon His return it will be to punish.

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newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

I will answer that with scripture;

Let's read what is needed for a person to receive the faith that is needed for salvation which scriptures tells us is the following;

Rom.10
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

But is this all that is needed? Calling upon the name of the Lord? Let's continue...

[14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?

Paul asks the question...how can one call upon Jesus without first believing in Him.

[14] ....and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?

So before believing to be able to call upon His name they must first hear about Jesus.

[14] .....and how shall they hear without a preacher?

So before being able to call on His name you must first hear or learn about Jesus. And how can you learn about Jesus without a preacher.

[15] And how shall they preach, except they be sent?

So now..not only do you have to first hear about Jesus before being able to call His name, you must have been first taught about Him. And not just by ANYONE.....it must come from one that has been sent by God. Now part of the preachers job is to teach people what sin is...just as Paul did. And where did Paul learn what is and what is not sin? Let's read;

Rom.7
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Let's confirm;

Rom.3
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

This is just one of the jobs of a preacher that is sent by God. To teach what is righteous to God.

Let's continue....

[16] But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So the faith that is needed to be saved must first come by the knowledge of God, that was presented by one that was sent by God, then the words that were taught, which is the gospel, must be obeyed.

Once a person has gone through the process that the scriptures says are needed for faith so that they are able to call on His name and then they accept the Lord, to do and obey the gospel, they are now accountable for any actions AFTER this acceptance. For how can anyone be held accountable for sinning against God if they have never heard about Him, have never been taught about Him, nor know what is wrong according to His laws.

Now let's read what sin Christ died for;

Rom.3
[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[26] To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

The scriptures tells us that Christ died for the remission of sins, "...THAT ARE PAST...".

Now the question is...Past what?

Past the time that you were taught by a preacher that was sent, that caused you to believe in this man Jesus, that then caused you to call upon His name and believe that His blood was shed for the forgiveness of your sins.

Now if you sin AFTER coming into the knowledge of who Jesus is and that His blood was shed for your sins and was taught what was a sin and what was not..you are in danger of being found guilty.

Let's read of what Paul tells us of those that have received the Holy Spirit and what COULD happen to them if they decide to return to their old lifestyle;

Heb.6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Now what would you consider a person that was, "enlightened", " have tasted of the heavenly gift", " were made partakers of the Holy Ghost", and "And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come"?

If that person were to die right now...in the state mentioned above...what would you think their chances were of eternal life? I would say they were pretty good. I would say any person in the above state would be saved. But I am not God...I cannot judge. Only God knows their mind. Now let's read what Paul tells us next....

[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Paul says IF these were to fall away it would be impossible to renew then again unto repentance. Now....if it were NOT possible for them to fall away in the first place why would Paul even give us this scenario?

Jesus died for ALL of their PAST sins. If they go BACK and fall away they are in danger of dying the second death.

Now....does any of us know just when their fate is sealed? In other words...will it be after their 1st, 5th or 63rd sin that God turns His head and says enough is enough! Who knows. Only God knows that. All I know is that God's word tells us that Jesus died and covered all of our PAST sins.

I just gotta include other scripture to confirm;

Ezk.18
[24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
[25] Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

So ALL of the good things a righteous person does can be wiped away and counted for nothing if he starts sinning again. And does he have the chance to redeem himself? Let's read;

[26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

So if the ONCE righteous DIES in his sins, he shall die the second death.

Now remember.....he was considered righteous at one point. But it was when he started to sin again AND die in his sins did he have to die the second death.
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I am afraid you do not understand the Gospel of grace

For by one sacrifice he has made FOREVER PERFECT those who are being made Holy
Heb 10:14

For in the Gospel a righteousness from God has been revealed, a righteousness that is by faith FROM FIRST TO LAST. As it is written the righteous shall live by faith
Rom1:17
You will only have one righteousness in God's eyes for your entire Christian life, faith in Christ who died for your sin

You should have continued on from Rom 7:7, sin used the law to arouse all kinds of lust in Paul.

So did Christ only die for the sins committed BEFORE we were saved?

But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages, TO DO AWAY WITH SIN, by the sacrifice of himself
Heb9:26

A JW can quote scripture to show his beliefs to be true, we need to ubderstand and accept why Christ died on the cross
He died to remove the penalty of sin, and the POWER of vsin, and the power of sin is the law,(1Cor 15:56) and Rom 7:7-11 explains why.
If Christ only died for the sins we commit before saved, then the power of sin has not been removed.

But, this is not a licence to sin for the true believer, God made sure of that

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time declares the Lord
I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR HEARTS AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR MINDS
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless acts I WILL REMEBER NO MORE
Heb 10:16&17

God draws us to Christ, he wipes out our sin, he puts within our hearts a desire to be obediant, t0 live as he would have us live, for he writes the law he would have us keep on our hearts and minds. So we want to serve, but obediance must come from faithRom1:5

It is only because Christ died for all our sin that sin will not be our master, that is intrinsic to the Gospel of grace

Eccl12and13 · Sep 15, 2012

newcovenantchristian said:

Christ died to remove the power of WHICH sin is the question that should be asked. Let's read if Paul was still influenced by sin AFTER Christ died on the cross;

Rom.7
[15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Paul tells us the things that He does he does not what to do them;(For that which I do I allow not

He goes on to tell us the things he wants to do that he knows is right he does not do them; (for what I would, that do I not)

But what does he sometimes end up doing? The things that he hates..the things that he KNOWS is wrong. (but what I hate, that do I.)

And where did Paul come by the knowledge that the things he is doing is wrong? He read them in God's laws; "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.". But let's continue in Paul's writings;

Paul tells us if he does the things he knows not to do it is because of the knowledge of God's laws that let's him know these things are bad....so God's laws are good. (If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.)

But what is it that is inside of Paul....it is sin. It is that constant battle that goes on all of the time trying to make him do the things that he knows he should not do. Just as he says here; (Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.) Paul tells us...it's not me. I don't want to do these things...it's sin...that constant temptation that makes me break God's laws.

Clearly ALL of sin was not removed when Christ died. As we just read....even Paul was subjected to the power of sin at times.

So again I ask....WHICH sin did Christ come to remove the power of? Which of God's laws had power over us that was removed? Which law was against us and could not make us perfect?

The only law that Christ came to remove....the laws of animal sacrifice. That was the law that was nailed to the cross. That was the law that kept us bound to the shedding of the blood of animals. After Christ removed that law..we were no longer bound to having to kill animals. That schoolmaster was done away with.

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RedTent · Sep 15, 2012

Those who say that it is not keeping the commandments that gives us eternal life are biblically correct.

Those who say that keeping the law is required are also biblically correct. What we do is not what God looks at, we don’t work for salvation. But we make ourselves into people faith and grace can live within through what our minds dwell on, and that always works hand and glove with what we do. That has love as the core, and every commandment ever given has love as the core.

newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

As I know you will not accept what I write, I will simply make a comment. I weep for those sincere of heart people who come to Christ, only to be told what they must do to continue in their salvation. They are continually told how they MUST/SHOULD live, but they are not in truth told how Because they are not being told the full truth of why Christ died on the cross. And so many sincere of heart people then believe they are not good enough for God, the sin just gets worse, not better, or they see no victory over it.

They believe its their fault that they don't get anywhere and often give up. Oh that more people would tell them the truth so they may be free. It is only when they know they are secure with God because of what Christ did for them on the cross, and not their personal goodness that they can start to grow, and start to grow through looking to Christ and trusting him and relying totally on the Holy Spirit to sanctify them
They can then hold up hands in worship and thanksgiving and give God all the glory for what he has done for them a miserable sinner, like the rest of us are. And they in their hearts will know they have no righteousness of their own.
They already have a conscience to live as they should, for the Holy Spirit put that conscience on them at conversion, to be crushed with demands, of looking to literal laws and in effect be told their continued Christianity hinges on obeying them will crush the sincere, but that's where it all goes wrong, after conversion, no one can be good enough and its only when we know that and that Christ died for ALL our imperfections we start to grow, as we look to Christ and trust in him and totally rely on the power of the Holy Spirit to change/sanctify us

Eccl12and13 · Sep 15, 2012

newcovenantchristian said:

Well.....let us continue.....

Rom.7
[8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Paul tells us that because of God's commandments/laws and with it the knowledge of knowing just what sin actually was...brought up even MORE sinful actions and made him even more aware of the nature of sin. Paul tells us that WITHOUT God's laws...the knowledge of sin was dead to him. He had no idea what he was doing was wrong in God's eye without the law.

Sin did not use the law to bring up all kinds of lust in Paul. God's law caused Paul to see just how sinful sin actually was.

[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died

Paul tells us that he was alive before he knew what God's laws were. Just as most of us..we were out doing our thing..thinking we were living it up...having a grand old time. But what happened to Paul when he became aware of the knowledge of God's laws? That man and that lifestyle had to die. Sin became known and the old Paul and his ways died.

[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Notice what Paul says above. God's commandments/laws were ordained to LIFE! Why? Because keeping them will ensure eternal life. But what happened to the old Paul...the Paul that did not know what he was doing was sin? Well that old Paul died once he was made aware of God's laws.

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newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

In Rom 7:7-11 Paul is speaking pre conversion to Christianity. The law has been put on the hearts and minds
of Christians, it is INTERNAL to us now, NOT EXTERNAL

Do you not understand Rom ch7?
Sin used one of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS to make Paul feel condemned, sin used one of the Ten Commandments to arouse all kinds of lust in Paul BECAUSE Paul believed he could be condemned by failing to obey that law.
He had 633 laws to choose from to give an example of why he had to die to the law, he chose, thou shalt not covet, but dying to the law does not mean we obey less, but rather more

Do we therefore nullify the law by this faith? Not at all, rather we UPHOLD THE LAW
Rom 3:31

For sin shall not be your master, FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER LAW BUT UNDER GRACE
Rom 6:14

The power of sin is the law
1Cor15:56

newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

Well.....let us continue.....

Rom.7
[8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Paul tells us that because of God's commandments/laws and with it the knowledge of knowing just what sin actually was...brought up even MORE sinful actions and made him even more aware of the nature of sin. Paul tells us that WITHOUT God's laws...the knowledge of sin was dead to him. He had no idea what he was doing was wrong in God's eye without the law.

Sin did not use the law to bring up all kinds of lust in Paul. God's law caused Paul to see just how sinful sin actually was.

[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died

Paul tells us that he was alive before he knew what God's laws were. Just as most of us..we were out doing our thing..thinking we were living it up...having a grand old time. But what happened to Paul when he became aware of the knowledge of God's laws? That man and that lifestyle had to die. Sin became known and the old Paul and his ways died.

[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Notice what Paul says above. God's commandments/laws were ordained to LIFE! Why? Because keeping them will ensure eternal life. But what happened to the old Paul...the Paul that did not know what he was doing was sin? Well that old Paul died once he was made aware of God's laws.

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Can I ask you something?

Do you accept that in God's eyes the only righreousness a Christian will ever have for the WHOLE of their Christian life is faith in Christ, that he died for their sins?

And, if/when change takes place in your life, is the glory all God's and you can take no credit yourself for any change in you/victory over the sin?

wwjd_kilden · Sep 15, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

I know this

But: It must have had some effect right, or it would not have been the law. So why was then Jesus needed? ... because mankind continued to sin after sacrificing.

Eccl12and13 · Sep 15, 2012

newcovenantchristian said:

It's not whether I will accept what you write..it's about what God's word tells us. God does not deal with emotions. He tells us how His way is and we have the choice to accept HIS way or not.

In the my post I asked the following; "Just as with my other posts....let's toss this topic around for awhile...pray and ask God for wisdom and understanding....and let's study and present God's word as proof and not emotions, to come up with a sound biblical doctrine."

To use scripture as proof and no emotions. I'm sorry to say...but what you have given the readers above are emotions and no scriptures.

Above you say, "... they are not being told the full truth of why Christ died on the cross...". Well...the bible is very clear on why Christ came and died on the cross. Let's read it;

God had a law that said the following;

Heb.9
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Now let's read why Christ came to die;

Heb.10
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[4] For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

God did not want to have to destroy all of His creation. But He had a law that said there HAD to be the shedding of blood to remove sins. And since sin was passed down to ALL of mankind by Adam...AND because God had a law that said there HAD to be the shedding of blood to remove sin...God had to have a plane to both save mankind AND not break His law.

This is the truth as to why Jesus came to die on the cross. No emotions...just scriptures.

It is just that easy.

Just as the answer to the question of the OP; "Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?"

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newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

wwjd_kilden said:

If Jesus only died for the sin we commit BEFORE we become Christians how is this different from the old covenant?

God would forgive a person their sin under the old covennant then they strove to obey the law. It seems to many Christ died to take away the ceremonial laws/the easier ones to keep, but the ones that condemned Paul are still there to condemn us. This is ridiculous, but as Jesus said

And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says the old is better
Luke5:39

You only have to read Heb ch9 to know Christ died for all our sins. He didn't have to enter Heaven again and again to offer himself the way the high priest enters the most Holy place every year with blood that is not his own, otherwise he would have had to suffer again and again
But now he appeared at the end of the ages to DO AWAY WITH SIN BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF

I know, I get too exasperated, but I have such a burden for those taught by people who do not understand the truth and crush the sincere with impossible demands

wwjd_kilden · Sep 15, 2012

What I dislike about some people talking of the laws (not saying this have to be true for you) is that many seem to pick- and - choose which to follow. Are ALL the old laws still active?

If so, simple example:
All who do not follows the jews' laws about what to eat sin most times they eat because they eat foods that God did not allow.

Either all the laws still apply, or they don't

newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

This is the truth as to why Jesus came to die on the cross. No emotions...just scriptures.

It is just that easy.

Just as the answer to the question of the OP; "Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?"

.[/quote]

I take it you are including in that list of comamndments to kept to inherit eternal life obediance to Christ's commands?

Does this mean that if you tell anyone you fast, or in your heart want anytone to know you fast you can have no eternal life?

If anyone persecuted you for being a Christian you woud leap up and down for joy in heartfelt gratitude, realising you can have no eternal life if you don't

And you do not invite friends and neighbours to your house for a meal, but rather the poor, blind and lame, knowing you will receive your reward in Heaven, and if you don't keep to this you know, by your posts you can have no eternal life

I could go on to if someone stole an item of clothing from you, you must with only love in your heart for the person who stole from you offer other items of clothing as well, otherwise you can have no eternal life

I have understood correctly haven't I?

Eccl12and13 · Sep 15, 2012

wwjd_kilden said:

The effect was to keep the people in hope that one would soon come that would relieve them of having to continue to sacrifice animals. Let's read....

Heb.10
[1] For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Gal.3
[23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

And what was the law they were under? The law of animal sacrifice. They kept the faith that would later be revealed to them

[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The law of animal sacrifice was the schoolmaster that kept them all the way until Christ came...and keeping that faith AND keeping the law of animal sacrifice justified them, or removed their sins.

[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

But AFTER Jesus came and shed His blood..there was no longer a need for the killing of animals. They were no longer in need of a schoolmaster.

That was the effect of killing animals.... To remove their sins and give then hope until the one came along that would offer perfect blood to God.

Jesus was needed so that the killing of animals would stop, so that the perfect sacrifice could be offered, so that ALL men could now have the opportunity of salvation, so that God would not have to kill His creation and NOT break one of His laws; "...and without shedding of blood is no remission.".

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newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

newcovenantchristian said:

Can I ask you something?

Do you accept that in God's eyes the only righreousness a Christian will ever have for the WHOLE of their Christian life is faith in Christ, that he died for their sins?

And, if/when change takes place in your life, is the glory all God's and you can take no credit yourself for any change in you/victory over the sin?

I'm hoping you'll answer this one

Eccl12and13 · Sep 15, 2012

newcovenantchristian said:

You keep using this quote. What are you attempting to say?

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newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

The problem with websites such as these is that many come onto them believing they are teachers and here to instruct others, they will then never yield. The above post is not the Gospel, and does not go the heart of why Jesus died on the cross. The problem is many want a righteousness of their own(in truth) and it is not theirs to have

Not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith
Phil 3:9

These websites are so disheartening at times

newcovenantchristian · Sep 15, 2012

Eccl12and13 said:

I am afraid a respnse would be pointless, you would not understand

Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

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