Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#41
This is the truth as to why Jesus came to die on the cross. No emotions...just scriptures.

It is just that easy.

Just as the answer to the question of the OP; "Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?"




I take it you are including in that list of comamndments to kept to inherit eternal life obediance to Christ's commands?

Does this mean that if you tell anyone you fast, or in your heart want anytone to know you fast you can have no eternal life?

If anyone persecuted you for being a Christian you woud leap up and down for joy in heartfelt gratitude, realising you can have no eternal life if you don't

And you do not invite friends and neighbours to your house for a meal, but rather the poor, blind and lame, knowing you will receive your reward in Heaven, and if you don't keep to this you know, by your posts you can have no eternal life

I could go on to if someone stole an item of clothing from you, you must with only love in your heart for the person who stole from you offer other items of clothing as well, otherwise you can have no eternal life

I have understood correctly haven't I?
I don't have a problem answering any of your questions. The only thing that would prevent me is time. I will answer the above by simply saying....I do my best to keep ALL of God's laws and commandments to the best of my ability.

But for now let's stay on the topic of the question of the OP:

Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

The answer you give is your choice. Either you believe you do have to keep God's laws for eternal life. Or you do not believe you have to keep God's laws for eternal life. I am not going, nor can I, nor would I even attempt to judge you one way or another.

The only thing I requested was that scriptures and not emotion be presented to validate your doctrine.

Just as with my other post....after this has been tossed around for awhile...I will present scriptures that support God's word on the matter.

Thanks for the interest and for reading.


.
 
May 30, 2012
241
0
0
#43
I don't have a problem answering any of your questions. The only thing that would prevent me is time. I will answer the above by simply saying....I do my best to keep ALL of God's laws and commandments to the best of my ability.

But for now let's stay on the topic of the question of the OP:

Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

The answer you give is your choice. Either you believe you do have to keep God's laws for eternal life. Or you do not believe you have to keep God's laws for eternal life. I am not going, nor can I, nor would I even attempt to judge you one way or another.

The only thing I requested was that scriptures and not emotion be presented to validate your doctrine.

Just as with my other post....after this has been tossed around for awhile...I will present scriptures that support God's word on the matter.

Thanks for the interest and for reading.


.
So you consciously try and keep the commandments of Christ I gave as examples? Remembering to be honest is a BIG commandment?

Only if you do not even try and keep those I mentioned, you prove my point. You ask of others what you do not attempt to do yourself, therefore you crush the sincere of heart
 
Last edited:
May 30, 2012
241
0
0
#45
Can I ask you something?

Do you accept that in God's eyes the only righreousness a Christian will ever have for the WHOLE of their Christian life is faith in Christ, that he died for their sins?

And, if/when change takes place in your life, is the glory all God's and you can take no credit yourself for any change in you/victory over the sin?
Could you answer this, I've asked three times now
Thanks
 
May 30, 2012
241
0
0
#46
Is keeping the Commandments and Laws of God Needed for Eternal Life?

The answer you give is your choice. Either you believe you do have to keep God's laws for eternal life. Or you do not believe you have to keep God's laws for eternal life. I am not going, nor can I, nor would I even attempt to judge you one way or another.


.
I weill give you scriputure

But if you are led by the spirit you are not under law
Gal5:18

Why not?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness goodness and self control, against such things there is no law
Gal5:22

What is your understanding of those two passages

BTW

What you are failing to understand, as I did for many years after becoming a Christian is that it is because eternal life IS NOT dependant on obediance to law/commandments that they are better upheld in a Christians life, that's the Gospel
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#47
The above post is not the Gospel, and does not go the heart of why Jesus died on the cross.
Ok...let's be fair. If you could point out what is not gospel with book, chapt and verse i will read it to look for better understanding.

And if you could...just where can I go in scripture to find the heart of why Jesus died on the cross?

Dying on the cross was the ONLY thing Jesus could have done while on earth to give ALL men the chance at salvation.

Can you name anything else that He did while here that gave the chance of salvation to all men other than dying on the cross?



.
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#49
newcovenantchristian; ]As I know you will not accept what I write, I will simply make a comment. I weep for those sincere of heart people who come to Christ, only to be told what they must do to continue in their salvation. They are continually told how they MUST/SHOULD live, but they are not in truth told how Because they are not being told the full truth of why Christ died on the cross. And so many sincere of heart people then believe they are not good enough for God, the sin just gets worse, not better, or they see no victory over it.

They believe its their fault that they don't get anywhere and often give up. Oh that more people would tell them the truth so they may be free. It is only when they know they are secure with God because of what Christ did for them on the cross, and not their personal goodness that they can start to grow, and start to grow through looking to Christ and trusting him and relying totally on the Holy Spirit to sanctify them
They can then hold up hands in worship and thanksgiving and give God all the glory for what he has done for them a miserable sinner, like the rest of us are. And they in their hearts will know they have no righteousness of their own.
They already have a conscience to live as they should, for the Holy Spirit put that conscience on them at conversion, to be crushed with demands, of looking to literal laws and in effect be told their continued Christianity hinges on obeying them will crush the sincere, but that's where it all goes wrong, after conversion, no one can be good enough and its only when we know that and that Christ died for ALL our imperfections we start to grow, as we look to Christ and trust in him and totally rely on the power of the Holy Spirit to change/sanctify us
Someone on CC said that to understand scripture we must be like a level. There is a little bubble in a level, when it is in the center then the level says it is right. For a new Christian to be told that there is no grace, he must work for that, the bubble is not in the middle, it is not right. For a new Christian to be told that God accepts all thought and behavior, you can be whatever your flesh asks of you is not right, either.

Almost every single person on this post is absolutely correct, yet by pointing to only one side they don’t have the little bubble in the level in the center so they also are not completely on the level.
 
May 30, 2012
241
0
0
#51
Ok...let's be fair. If you could point out what is not gospel with book, chapt and verse i will read it to look for better understanding.

And if you could...just where can I go in scripture to find the heart of why Jesus died on the cross?

Dying on the cross was the ONLY thing Jesus could have done while on earth to give ALL men the chance at salvation.

Can you name anything else that He did while here that gave the chance of salvation to all men other than dying on the cross?



.
You see the problem is, I could spend a lot of time writing much out, but I know all too well you will not accept it, therefore I am wasting my time.

I won't write all of this out but in Rom ch7:4-6, Paul says we must die to the law so we may live for Christ, and we die to the law so we can bear fruit for God, he also says it is the law that arouses the sinful passions in us
Then, in the next five verses he gives a personal example as to why he had to die to the law, the example he gave was 'Thou shalt not covet' one of the Ten commandments
But you will not accept that for to you the only law we die to is animal sacrifices, and yet those passages are very plain indeed, but you will never accept them, this is the problem And I do grow weary at times continually writing the evidence out only for it to be disregarded

Sin used the good and Holy laws of God to arouse all kind of lust in Paul and made him feel cfondemned, that is why he died to the law and he certainly did not mean simply animal sacrifices.

If you are sincere in wanting to understand I would suggest kneeling at your bedside and asking God in sincerity to show you the truth of what Paul wrote in those verses
Bu you can only understand by relying on the Holy Spirit to show you the truth, in your natural self you will never undersdtand
 
Last edited:
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#52
I weill give you scriputure

But if you are led by the spirit you are not under law
Gal5:18

Why not?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness goodness and self control, against such things there is no law
Gal5:22

What is your understanding of those two passages

BTW

What you are failing to understand, as I did for many years after becoming a Christian is that it is because eternal life IS NOT dependant on obediance to law/commandments that they are better upheld in a Christians life, that's the Gospel
When you read the term, 'not under the law", what do you take that to mean...according to scripture?

.
 
May 30, 2012
241
0
0
#53

Thank you for admitting sin is transgression of the law

So

But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself
Heb 9:26

The Christian is not under law, so in this context Christ died to do away with sin. But, I know, you will never accept it. So why am I writing all this out? What's the point???
I must be a fruitcake!!!!
 
B

babyboyblue

Guest
#54
I agree.... No one in God's kingdom will be disobedient. But that question is, Is being obedient needed to GET into God's kingdom?

Thanks for reading.
.

Kinda Yes, Kinda No. It all depends on your willingness to obey.

No one sinning knowingly can get into God's kingdom, but that doesn't mean that someone who is sinning won't be. If you know you're doing something wrong and refuse to give it up, how do you expect to go to Heaven?
 
May 30, 2012
241
0
0
#55
When you read the term, 'not under the law", what do you take that to mean...according to scripture?

.
The law cannot condemn me. In other words eternal life does not hinge on obediance to the law, BUT because it does not, the law is far better upheld in the Christians life
Why?

Because the power of sin is the law
With sins power removed the Christian sins far less, does this not make any sense?
 
Last edited:
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#56
Sin used the good and Holy laws of God to arouse all kind of lust in Paul and made him feel cfondemned,
Let's read this again....

Rom.7
[8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Paul tells us that because of God's commandments/laws and with it the knowledge of knowing just what sin actually was...brought up even MORE sinful actions and made him even more aware of the nature of sin. Paul tells us that WITHOUT God's laws...the knowledge of sin was dead to him. He had no idea what he was doing was wrong in God's eye without the law.

Sin did not use the law to bring up all kinds of lust in Paul. God's law caused Paul to see just how sinful sin actually was.

[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died

Paul tells us that he was alive before he knew what God's laws were. Just as most of us..we were out doing our thing..thinking we were living it up...having a grand old time. But what happened to Paul when he became aware of the knowledge of God's laws? That man and that lifestyle had to die. Sin became known and the old Paul and his ways died.

[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Notice what Paul says above. God's commandments/laws were ordained to LIFE! Why? Because keeping them will ensure eternal life. But what happened to the old Paul...the Paul that did not know what he was doing was sin? Well that old Paul died once he was made aware of God's laws.

Paul did not die to God's laws. The knowledge of God's laws caused Paul to change his lifestyle. That old Paul died...the man Paul used to be died. Paul tells us this clearly...let's read it again;

" For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died"


Now...this is how I understand the verses above.

Here is your chance.... If you could, could you please tell me how it is you see these same verses as saying; "Sin used the good and Holy laws of God to arouse all kind of lust in Paul and made him feel condemned."

If you could...how could sin use the law of God to arouse all kinds of lust within Paul to make him feel condemned? Interested in seeing your logic here.


.
 
E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#57
Thank you for admitting sin is transgression of the law

So

But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself
Heb 9:26

The Christian is not under law, so in this context Christ died to do away with sin. But, I know, you will never accept it. So why am I writing all this out? What's the point???
I must be a fruitcake!!!!
Ok....I'm really trying to work with you here. You say that Christ died to do away with sin. My question to you is WHICH sin? Which breaking of God's law did Christ do away with?

For example....we still have people killing people; that is a sin!

We still have people lying! That is a sin!

So when you say Christ died so that a law could be done away with...since we still have some laws of God that are yet being broken...I propose to you that the one law that Christ did do away with..the one law that had power over us because it could not make us perfect, was the law of animal sacrifice. For the moment Christ died and His blood was shed...that law of God no longer held us captive. As a matter of fact, the veil of the temple was torn in tow so that there COULD be no more animal sacrifices.

So...trying to work with you here....What sin did Christ do away with when He died...seeing we yet have sin and God is returning to punish sinners...those that break His laws?

.
 
May 30, 2012
241
0
0
#58
Let's read this again....

Rom.7
[8] But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Paul tells us that because of God's commandments/laws and with it the knowledge of knowing just what sin actually was...brought up even MORE sinful actions and made him even more aware of the nature of sin. Paul tells us that WITHOUT God's laws...the knowledge of sin was dead to him. He had no idea what he was doing was wrong in God's eye without the law.

Sin did not use the law to bring up all kinds of lust in Paul. God's law caused Paul to see just how sinful sin actually was.

Yes sin did

But sin, taking occasion by the commandemnt WROUGHT IN ME ALL MANNER OF CONCUPISCENCE, for without the law sin was dead
Once I was alive without the law, but when the commandment came SIN REVIVED AND I DIED
And the commandment that was ordained to life I found to be unto death
FOR SIN, TAKING OCCASION BY THE COMMANDMENT DECEIVED ME, AND BY IT SLEW ME

[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died

Paul tells us that he was alive before he knew what God's laws were. Just as most of us..we were out doing our thing..thinking we were living it up...having a grand old time. But what happened to Paul when he became aware of the knowledge of God's laws? That man and that lifestyle had to die. Sin became known and the old Paul and his ways died.

[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

Notice what Paul says above. God's commandments/laws were ordained to LIFE! Why? Because keeping them will ensure eternal life. But what happened to the old Paul...the Paul that did not know what he was doing was sin? Well that old Paul died once he was made aware of God's laws.

Paul did not die to God's laws. The knowledge of God's laws caused Paul to change his lifestyle. That old Paul died...the man Paul used to be died. Paul tells us this clearly...let's read it again;

" For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died"


Now...this is how I understand the verses above.

Here is your chance.... If you could, could you please tell me how it is you see these same verses as saying; "Sin used the good and Holy laws of God to arouse all kind of lust in Paul and made him feel condemned."

If you could...how could sin use the law of God to arouse all kinds of lust within Paul to make him feel condemned? Interested in seeing your logic here.

Sorry forgot to change colour below
I'll give you an example

I have a grandson, when he was two he used to come to our home. There were six things he was told not to touch in my computer room, one was the telephone. If he could dart into the room unnoticed he went straight for the things he was told not to touch
One dy he came in and hovered his hand over the phone and stared art me, I stared back and told him to take hisw hand away.
You see, by me giving him rules/laws/commands it brought an excitement to him to break my rules, for that is basic human nature, there is often especially as children an excitement stirred by doing what you are told not to do
Now, if I had not given him those rules, he may have sometimes gone to touch those things but the allure woud not have been so great.
But there was nothing wrong with my rules as there isn't God's laws, but it is human nature, sin, and you have an enemy, satan, and if he can use the good and Holy laws of God to condemn you'by stirring up desires to sin because of them he will, but he can only do that if you are under law



.
Hope you follw the above ok
 
May 30, 2012
241
0
0
#59
Ok....I'm really trying to work with you here. You say that Christ died to do away with sin. My question to you is WHICH sin? Which breaking of God's law did Christ do away with?

For example....we still have people killing people; that is a sin!

We still have people lying! That is a sin!

So when you say Christ died so that a law could be done away with...since we still have some laws of God that are yet being broken...I propose to you that the one law that Christ did do away with..the one law that had power over us because it could not make us perfect, was the law of animal sacrifice. For the moment Christ died and His blood was shed...that law of God no longer held us captive. As a matter of fact, the veil of the temple was torn in tow so that there COULD be no more animal sacrifices.

So...trying to work with you here....What sin did Christ do away with when He died...seeing we yet have sin and God is returning to punish sinners...those that break His laws?

.
Christ died to pay the penalty of our sin and to break the POWER OF sin in our lives
Although we are not under law, the good and Holy laws of God he would have us keep have been written on our hearts asnd mind by the Spirit. Let me give you an example of what I mean

When I first became a Christian I believed as you do now, roughly. For the next 7 years a was gripped by a particular sin that I knew was wrong, my conscience told me it was wrong. I felt dirty and condemned, it was a form of lust(funny Paul mentioned the same). In the end I gave up with God because I thought I was too much of a sinner to be a Christian, the lustful act remained. Then one day I read a book of grace and learnt what I now know. I thought I may actually be able to be a Christian for my salvation hinged not on my personal goodness/law keeping but on Christ dying for my sins. But the lustful act was a problem. I still didn't want to sin if you like, that hadn't changed, it doesn't when you accept grace because the good laws of God he would have you keep have been vwritten on your heart and mind meaning we want to live as God wants us to live
But, instead of letting the lustful act make me feel condemned I looked to Christ and trusted I was a Christian soley because he died for my sins. And it wasn't easy because a voice inside my head kept sying 'you're just faking your Christianity, you can't be a Christian and do what you are doing.' But whereas before I would have taken notice of the voice, now I looked to Jesus and tusted I was a Christian despite the lustful act still happening, for my Christianity now stood on Christ dying for me, not my personal goodness, that was my one and only righteousness. I asked Jesus to deal with the lustful act and trusted him to(not easy). After three days the lustful act stopped, whereas this had previouysly been going on for 7 years
Do you see what I mean?
For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#60
Eccl12&13 quote: ....What sin did Christ do away with when He died...seeing we yet have sin and God is returning to punish sinners...those that break His laws?
Christ will not return to punish us for breaking God’s commandments, He will return because of blaspheming against the spirit. In other words, because people do not acknowledge the One True God. Christ offers redemption for all sinners, except for this.
Quote: So when you say Christ died so that a law could be done away with...since we still have some laws of God that are yet being broken...I propose to you that the one law that Christ did do away with..The one law that had power over us because it could not make us perfect was the law of animal sacrifice. For the moment Christ died and His blood was shed...that law of God no longer held us captive. As a matter of fact, the veil of the temple was torn in tow so that there COULD be no more animal sacrifices.
God did not “do away with” the blood of animals used for thousands of years as a symbol of Christ. Christ fulfilled. The blood of animals was not needed after the blood it represented was actual in our time. God is eternal; the blood of animals was a shadow of the happening within time as we know it. A shadow cannot be of nothing, so the blood of animals was a shadow of the blood of Christ.