Is marking of Mark of the Beast is literal or just figurative?

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May 29, 2018
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#41
Hi, it's Revelation Chapter 20 and verse 4
There it describes God's people who were beheaded for not worshiping the Beast or His image.
I quote this verse..."I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Can you show you to me that during the 2nd beast and the image of the beast reign there will be a Christian persecution or war of the Saints?? Because what I only read only the time reign of the 1st beast with the Harlot engaged war of the Saints.
Further, it is the 2nd beast who is responsible of enforcing the MARK.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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#42
Since believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, then the Lord will gather His church prior to the first seal being opened.

Jesus already suffered the wrath of God which every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon us and therefore must be removed prior to the start of God's wrath.
That was my understanding as well. However, after being presented with the fact that the apostles were martyred as well as professing Christians since Jesus' sacrifice I am unsure. Also, something to consider is God brought plagues upon the Egyptians while protecting His people at the same time. Any thoughts?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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#43
Where it says in the book of Revelation for those who refuse the mark will be beheaded?
(Rev 20:4)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

Moses_Young

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2019
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#44
Is marking of Mark of the Beast is literal of putting a mark in foreheads/hand or just only figurative?
If the mark of the Beast were figurative, why is Bill Gates pushing so hard to get everyone physically marked? And if you don't get his mark, you can't work or even go out to buy and sell (across the whole world, not just one tin pot country). And why are so many numbers associated with this of the "666" variety? (e.g. the end, middle and start symbols on every credit card, Bill's stupid vaccine-chip patent number, etc.)
 
May 29, 2018
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#45
If the mark of the Beast were figurative, why is Bill Gates pushing so hard to get everyone physically marked? And if you don't get his mark, you can't work or even go out to buy and sell (across the whole world, not just one tin pot country). And why are so many numbers associated with this of the "666" variety? (e.g. the end, middle and start symbols on every credit card, Bill's stupid vaccine-chip patent number, etc.)
Can you show me a link that Bill Gates pushing so hard to get everyone physically marked?
 
May 29, 2018
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#46
(Rev 20:4)
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Can you show you to me that during the 2nd beast and the image of the beast reign there will be a Christian persecution or war of the Saints?? Because what I only read only the time reign of the 1st beast with the Harlot engaged war of the Saints.
Further, it is the 2nd beast who is responsible for enforcing the MARK.
 
May 29, 2018
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#48

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#49
The Book of Revelation has a lot of symbolic language in it, so nobody knows exactly what the mark will be.
Greetings Scotty!

Though we do not know what the mark will eventually evolve into, we do know that the technology for it is here in the form of the RFID chip. We also know that it will be located in/on the hand or the forehead and that without that mark/device, no one will be able to buy or sell. Putting this prophecy in perspective for today, buying and selling would be electronic crediting and debiting. And that mark is what is going to replace the swiping of credit and debit cards. So, during the time of the beasts reign, anyone without the mark/device will not be able to electronically credit or debit their bank accounts, ergo, he forces them.

We do know that Christians will refuse to receive the mark and they will be beheaded for refusing it.

It sounds like God ordained this mark, in order to make it clear to everyone, who His people are and who the reprobate are. The Book of Revelations describes 2 marks, one is for the condemned and one is for His elect. The elect will be marked with the "Seal of God" and the reprobate will have the "Mark of the Best".
The only people who will be sealed during the time of God's wrath, will be the 144,000 who come out of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe. No one else is said to be sealed during that time. Those who do not receive it will be those who become believers in Christ after the church has been removed from the earth. To be clear, the seal of God in the forehead for the 144,000 should not be confused with the sealing of the Holy Spirit which believers receive when they believed.

Satan has to ask God for permission to force people to receive His mark, so we know that God has a good purpose in allowing Satan to be the prince of this world.
No one will physically be forced to receive the mark. That meaning of the false prophet forcing/causing all to receive it, will be because the other methods of buying and selling (cash, checks, credit and debit cards, etc.) will be made obsolete, leaving only that mark. This is why we have been seeing the phasing out of cash and checks. It will be cut and dry. One either receives the mark or rejects it. Those will be the only two options. Those who reject it will not be able perform any type of electronic financial business and that because they will not be able to electronically access their bank accounts.

Currently Sweden leads the way in this technology making all of their purchases via card swiping. However, thousands are now using the RFID chip implant under the skin of the hand to make their purchases. This technology is now here in the US with companies offering their employees the opportunity to be chipped and will continue to spread world-wide. By the time the antichrist is revealed the electronic mark system will already be up and running. I'm sure that at some point his name or the number of his name will be encoded in that device that will go in the hand or the forehead, just like the debit and credit cards which have bank, branch, city and country codes imbedded into the chip . Those who receive it will be aligning themselves with the beast.

God will open the door of hell and let the Devils torment all of those who have the mark of the beast, for 5 months. The Bible says that they will seek death, because of the extreme torture but they won't be able to die.
When reading Revelation, it is paramount in paying attention to the details. The only people during that time who will be exempt from the torment of those demonic beings who will be released from the Abyss, will be those with the seal of God in their foreheads, which would mean that only the 144,000 will be exempt. Scripture doesn't say that anyone else is excluded from this plague of wrath.

"They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel"

It's much better to allow the authorities to behead us, than to suffer extreme torture for 5 months and then eternal torture in the lake of fire.
Jesus took upon himself God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Those who are in Christ are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath (I Thess.1:10, 5:9). Therefore, the church must be removed prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's time of wrath, also known as the tribulation period. Suffice to say, the church will not be on the earth when that mark becomes mandatory for buying and selling. Those who will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark, will be those great tribulation saints, who are not the church, but those who will have become believers after the church has been gathered.

If you put the church as being on the earth during the time of God's wrath, then God would be punishing the righteous with the wicked and it is not God's nature to do that. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgment, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring, will affect the entire world. There will be nowhere to hide, no ark to get on, no small town to flee to. Therefore, the Lord will keep his promise found in John 14:1-3 and I Thess.4:13-17 prior to the on-set of His wrath, not after it.

Since the technology for the mark of the beast is already here and the church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath, which is when the mark becomes mandatory, then how close are we to the appearing of the Lord and our being gathered to Him? The emergence of this electronic crediting and debiting technology is a marker showing us how close we are to the gathering of the church.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#50
Hi, it's Revelation Chapter 20 and verse 4
There it describes God's people who were beheaded for not worshiping the Beast or His image.
Those people who will be beheaded during that time is not the church, but the great tribulation saints who were introduced in Rev.7:9-17. If you will notice, throughout chapters 1 thru 3 only the word ekklesia translated as church is used. Then in Chapter 4:1 we see a prophetic allusion to the where the church is caught up. After chapter 4:1 we never see the word ekklesia/church used again. It is replaced by the word hagios translated as saints. The next time the church is alluded to is in Rev.19:6-8 as the bride at the wedding of the Lamb. The actual word does not appear again until chapter 22:16. The meaning is, that the church is no longer on the earth after Revelation 4:1. This means that the church will be caught up prior to the first seal being opened.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#51
That was my understanding as well. However, after being presented with the fact that the apostles were martyred as well as professing Christians since Jesus' sacrifice I am unsure.

Good day, Wansvic!

What you have described above is a common mistake. The apostles and all believers since then, have suffered the trials and persecutions that Jesus said we would suffer because of our faith in Him. These trials and persecutions should not be confused with God's coming wrath, which is when He will be directly pouring out His wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments upon a Christ rejecting world.

Also, something to consider is God brought plagues upon the Egyptians while protecting His people at the same time. Any thoughts?
The plagues that were brought upon Egypt was restricted to Egypt. The wrath that is coming via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring, will affect the entire world, as described below:

"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

That day = The Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath

Where = those who live on the face of the whole earth

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

The wrath of God is coming! But before that begins the Lord will keep His promise and gather His church/bride from off the earth, because believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer His coming wrath.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,056
435
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#52
I don't think so either. It will be a conscience choice. There will be pressure & threats to comply or else. But it will be a choice.
Some people get very hung up on the buying and selling aspect of the mark.
So much so they forget the most significant defining feature of it.

The mark will be a conscience choice to WORSHIP the false god whose mark it is. Rev 13:12 & 13:15.
The right to participate in The Beast's economy will be secured by willing submission to it's religion by the public, physical act of bowing to the ground before it. My eschatological view looks like the Biblical narrative rather than the sci-fi novel some try to portray.


There is a good foreshadowing picture of it Daniel 3

3 Then the satraps, the prefects and the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the judges, the magistrates and all the rulers of the provinces were assembled for the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up; and they stood before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up. 4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed: “To you the command is given, O peoples, nations and men of every language, 5 that at the moment you hear the sound of the horn, flute, lyre, trigon, psaltery, bagpipe and all kinds of music, you are to fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king has set up. 6 But whoever does not fall down and worship shall immediately be cast into the midst of a furnace of blazing fire.”
(NASB)
Daniel 11:32 KJV
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
May 29, 2018
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#53
Jesus took upon himself God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Those who are in Christ are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath (I Thess.1:10, 5:9). Therefore, the church must be removed prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's time of wrath, also known as the tribulation period. Suffice to say, the church will not be on the earth when that mark becomes mandatory for buying and selling. Those who will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark, will be those great tribulation saints, who are not the church, but those who will have become believers after the church has been gathered.

If you put the church as being on the earth during the time of God's wrath, then God would be punishing the righteous with the wicked and it is not God's nature to do that. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgment, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring, will affect the entire world. There will be nowhere to hide, no ark to get on, no small town to flee to. Therefore, the Lord will keep his promise found in John 14:1-3 and I Thess.4:13-17 prior to the on-set of His wrath, not after it.

Since the technology for the mark of the beast is already here and the church is not appointed to suffer God's wrath, which is when the mark becomes mandatory, then how close are we to the appearing of the Lord and our being gathered to Him? The emergence of this electronic crediting and debiting technology is a marker showing us how close we are to the gathering of the church.
The opening of the seals is just a replay of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew chptr 24 and Mark chptr 13 from the false Christ to heavenly signs(moon/sun dark). It happened since the apostle time up to the last days.
The Tribulation is not the God's wrath that will happen after the heavenly signs(moon/sun dark) when the sounding of trumpets begins, rather the Tribulation is satan's wrath against the Saints.
 
May 29, 2018
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#54
Ahwatukee the opening of the seals is just a replay of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew chptr 24 and Mark chptr 13 from the false Christ to heavenly signs(moon/sun dark). It happened since the apostle time up to the last days.
The Tribulation is not the God's wrath(against the wicked) that will happen after the heavenly signs(moon/sun dark) when the sounding of trumpets begins, rather the Tribulation is satan's wrath against the Saints.
 
May 29, 2018
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#55
The plagues that were brought upon Egypt was restricted to Egypt. The wrath that is coming via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring, will affect the entire world, as described below:

"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

That day = The Day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath

Where = those who live on the face of the whole earth

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

The wrath of God is coming! But before that begins the Lord will keep His promise and gather His church/bride from off the earth, because believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer His coming wrath.
Again to say, the SEALS is not part of the God's until the heavenly signs.

In Luke 21:34-38 it is clear the Believers will undergo the Tribulation, and it really needs to their prayers that they may be able to escape all that is about to happen.

Yes, the Lord's Day is God's wrath not during the Tribulation but after the heavenly signs.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
3,331
1,365
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#56
The opening of the seals is just a replay of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew chptr 24 and Mark chptr 13 from the false Christ to heavenly signs(moon/sun dark). It happened since the apostle time up to the last days.
The Tribulation is not the God's wrath that will happen after the heavenly signs(moon/sun dark) when the sounding of trumpets begins, rather the Tribulation is satan's wrath against the Saints.
The great tribulation is God's wrath (stated 13 times in revelation alone) upon the earth dwellers. Rev 12:12 is the only scripture that mentions the devil's wrath.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NKJV&quicksearch=wrath&begin=73&end=73
 
May 29, 2018
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#57
The great tribulation is God's wrath (stated 13 times in revelation alone) upon the earth dwellers. Rev 12:12 is the only scripture that mentions the devil's wrath.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=NKJV&quicksearch=wrath&begin=73&end=73
I cannot find from the 13 verses that the great Tribulation is a God's wrath, in contrast it is satan's wrath like these 2 verses below...
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Revelation 14:8
And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
3,331
1,365
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#58
I cannot find from the 13 verses that the great Tribulation is a God's wrath, in contrast it is satan's wrath like these 2 verses below...
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Revelation 14:8
And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
Excuse me but the very specific wrath of God (9X)and wrath of the Lamb (1X) is mentioned 10 times in total. *****10 TIMES****!!!!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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1,509
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#59
The opening of the seals is just a replay of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew chptr 24 and Mark chptr 13 from the false Christ to heavenly signs(moon/sun dark). It happened since the apostle time up to the last days.
The Tribulation is not the God's wrath that will happen after the heavenly signs(moon/sun dark) when the sounding of trumpets begins, rather the Tribulation is satan's wrath against the Saints.
You're just repeating a well know false teaching. Why don't you guy's ever do any of your own studies instead of continually repeating what you have read or heard?

There is no wrath of Satan! Satan gets angry when he and his angels are cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth. But it is not Satan's time of wrath. It's God's wrath. It is the long prophesied "Day of the Lord." Everything that takes place during that last seven years until Christ returns to the earth to end the age is apart of God's wrath, including the beast and his reign. Within that time of wrath, God will use both His holy angels and Satan and his angels to fulfill His wrath.

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place during that entire seven years, with the first seal initiating that time of wrath. In support of this, it the Lamb, Jesus, who will be the One opening the seals.

The majority of the book of Revelation centers on God's wrath and related information describe from chapters 6 thru 18. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place as a women having birth pains, i.e. they will start off and will get closer together and more intense as each seal, trumpet and bowl judgment takes place.

God's wrath begins with the opening of the first seal, which is the rider on the white horse which is representing the revealing of the antichrist. He is a counterfeit of the rider on the white horse in Rev.19:11

The Tribulation is not the God's wrath that will happen after the heavenly signs(moon/sun dark) when the sounding of trumpets begins
Once again you just quoting a known false teaching. At the opening of the 6th seal, people think that because it says "The great day of their wrath has come and who can endure it," that it means God's wrath begins there and therefore the seals are not part of God's wrath. This belief comes from a lack of study and using only partial information. Regarding this, consider the following:

Sixth Seal:
"They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us f from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”

Seventh Trumpet:
We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry, and your wrath has come.

So, if you interpret that God's wrath begins after the opening of the 6th seal because of the announcement that the great day of their wrath has come, then using the same logic, you would have to say that God's wrath begins after the seventh trumpet is sounded when they say "The nations were angry and your wrath has come," which would omit all of the seals and the previous six trumpet judgments as not belonging to God's wrath. They interpret it this way so that they put the church as being on the earth to endure the seal plagues, which again, Jesus is opening and therefore, initiating.

The problem with this interpretation, is that they don't understand that the Greek words translated as "has come," are in the aorist, indicative, active tense, which is speaking about God's wrath as a whole. That said, when it is stated in the 6th seal that the great day of their wrath has come, it is including all of the seals that will have previously taken place, as well as the 7th seal, the seven trumpets and the seven bowl judgments. It is the same for the words "you wrath has come" after the sounding of the 7th trumpet, which includes all of the previous seals, the previous six trumpets, as well as the seven bowl judgments which are still to come. The whole wrath of God.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#60
Again to say, the SEALS is not part of the God's until the heavenly signs.

In Luke 21:34-38 it is clear the Believers will undergo the Tribulation, and it really needs to their prayers that they may be able to escape all that is about to happen.


The way of escape will be when the Lord comes to gather His church. In Luke 21:34, Jesus is warning the disciples and all believers to be watching and not going back to living in the world according to the sinful nature. Anyone who is living like that will not escape that time of God's wrath, but it will close on them like a trap because they will have not been walking in faith when He comes to gather the church.

Yes, the Lord's Day is God's wrath not during the Tribulation but after the heavenly signs.
The tribulation period is God's wrath! Oye vey! Stop slicing and dicing the time of God's wrath!

Jesus as the Lamb, is the One who will be opening the seals and is therefore Him who is initiating the fatalities that will take place as a result of the seals, which lead into the trumpets and followed by the bowls. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet alone a fourth of the earth and a third, will be killed, which will be over half of the earths population within the first 3 1/2 years. And that's not counting the fatalities resulting from trumpets 1, 2 and 3, nor the fatalities resulting from the seven bowl judgments.

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues brought on by the two witnesses, is how God is going to pour out His wrath during that last seven years.

If you don't believe it, then that is due to your lack of understanding of the word of God and end-time events.