Is Paul or Jesus your main guide?
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I don't think we have come to any agreement.
Moses was given commands by God, I think God had a purpose in giving them we should learn from. All were given through the flesh, and we need to note that God communicated through the flesh in the Ot. Christ changed that, we should know about it and all about the change told in Matthew 5.
I think it should be brought to a conclusion this business about anything of the Lord being an only, an only purpose or anything only. I used the concordance to find the word only in the KJV and there is not one verse with that word in it. There is no verse in all the new testament with both the words law and works in the same verse except in Romans and Galatians. Every one of these has to do with Paul's warnings against working for the wrong reasons. Christ and the rest of the new testament speaks of our need to work as a result of Christ within us, Paul is the only one who warns about the dangers of work.
I think the discussion of the law needs to include all scripture about the law, never cherry picking. For example, all of the 119th Psalm is scripture about the law.
Moses was given commands by God, I think God had a purpose in giving them we should learn from. All were given through the flesh, and we need to note that God communicated through the flesh in the Ot. Christ changed that, we should know about it and all about the change told in Matthew 5.
I think it should be brought to a conclusion this business about anything of the Lord being an only, an only purpose or anything only. I used the concordance to find the word only in the KJV and there is not one verse with that word in it. There is no verse in all the new testament with both the words law and works in the same verse except in Romans and Galatians. Every one of these has to do with Paul's warnings against working for the wrong reasons. Christ and the rest of the new testament speaks of our need to work as a result of Christ within us, Paul is the only one who warns about the dangers of work.
I think the discussion of the law needs to include all scripture about the law, never cherry picking. For example, all of the 119th Psalm is scripture about the law.
I am trying to bring out that we should listen to all scripture without giving any one idea brought out exclusively by one author priority as I see is happening with Paul. I have even seen Paul's ideas told of without a thought about what Christ says about a certain subject. Take works for example. Paul is the only one who bring out dangers in works. These dangers are truths, but Christ didn't feel it was necessary for us to be even told of them, and many posts are all about the dangers of working for the Lord with absolutely nothing about what Christ says about it.
People always seem unable to see anything in balance. They can't seem to be able to take in two ideas and have them synchronize, it so often is my way or he highway. I wonder if this isn't done with my idea of keeping Paul in balance with all the others who write scripture as the Lord gives it to them.
What I would so like is for people to read all this with BALANCE. It does NOT say don't listen to Paul, it says listen to all scripture and put it in balance.
People always seem unable to see anything in balance. They can't seem to be able to take in two ideas and have them synchronize, it so often is my way or he highway. I wonder if this isn't done with my idea of keeping Paul in balance with all the others who write scripture as the Lord gives it to them.
What I would so like is for people to read all this with BALANCE. It does NOT say don't listen to Paul, it says listen to all scripture and put it in balance.
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WE must not forget Paul received his understanding from Jesus. He did not speak from his own ability as he said I counted all his learning as waste. Paul did not provide truth in a different way, "truth" he was given came through revelation that man never knew.
That is not a different truth it is a NEW revelation of what IS true.
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Paul's theme in all his letters is Christ, but not on how to live for Christ. That is the theme of the teachings of Christ. The theme of the gospels is told to us in Matthew 3:2 and 4:17. It is to repent, and then the teachings revolve around how to live in the world as if it is the kingdom of heaven.
If you followed Paul's teachings and ignored Christ's, you could sit on a hill as a student of scripture. If you followed Christ's gospels and ignored Paul, you would show Christ to the world through the light of Christ that shone through your deeds.
There are some people who read Paul's letters and think he tells them to be so afraid of working for the Lord in the wrong way that they don't reflect God within them with any deeds Christ tells them to do. They learn doctrine and no light. Learning to let your light shine through Paul's letters takes a thorough, deep study of all Paul says.
If you followed Paul's teachings and ignored Christ's, you could sit on a hill as a student of scripture. If you followed Christ's gospels and ignored Paul, you would show Christ to the world through the light of Christ that shone through your deeds.
There are some people who read Paul's letters and think he tells them to be so afraid of working for the Lord in the wrong way that they don't reflect God within them with any deeds Christ tells them to do. They learn doctrine and no light. Learning to let your light shine through Paul's letters takes a thorough, deep study of all Paul says.
I find it strange that people pick out anything about law obedience and make it all that is said. I am known as someone who "espouses the law" and not for speaking of scripture. I dearly love the Lord and all His word, so I love discussing his word. But it is like blowing in the wind, all that is heard is that I love the law, also, and that is a no, no to most people. I wonder why?
So you and many people do not share in my speaking about the Lord, you only see me as espousing the law and only look for that i what I say so you can object to anything I say.
I hate the idea of giving up speaking about the Lord, I know I should. I live in assisted living where no one considers the Lord as part of their lives. I am housebound, I thought people on this site would share in loving to discuss scripture, but as you state I speak of law so you wlll not even hear anything but that and you discard it as worthless. You only listen for something you don't like about what I say.
So you and many people do not share in my speaking about the Lord, you only see me as espousing the law and only look for that i what I say so you can object to anything I say.
I hate the idea of giving up speaking about the Lord, I know I should. I live in assisted living where no one considers the Lord as part of their lives. I am housebound, I thought people on this site would share in loving to discuss scripture, but as you state I speak of law so you wlll not even hear anything but that and you discard it as worthless. You only listen for something you don't like about what I say.
We must contend with the ...new age religion types........ in witnessing for our Lord and Savior today. Do not allow those folks to discourage you as dis enchanting as it is to hear what they wish to say. I hate to see God's existence and His word abused as here appearing daily.
We are reminded that God Himself is patient, tolerant and understanding as He forgives. We must tolerate for Him.
Your long suffering will be rewarded as part of living a righteous life...until the end. Stick with the Bible which is our road map to travel from this physical life to our eternal spiritual life as God has planned for us.
Remember..."fight the good fight"...and be Blessed.
blick your argument is with what scripture has to say in the New Testament the law of Moses like your saying there is about the flesh this is what that’s worth in Christ
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I ( Jesus ) speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
There’s no value left in the corrupt flesh or a law that teaches flesh what sin is once you come to Christ the law has completed its work in you Christ is the culmination of everything the law promosed would come later. The messiah would come and speak Gods true words of requirement.
the law was until the seed of Abraham came forth it was only ever meant to last until the way truth and life came forth the way of salvstion is here now the way of sin and death is not going to help us it never could justify anyone by the flesh it was meant to hold sinners guilty
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
Acts 13:39
But yeah there’s uses for the law it requires us to let it go as a law and look for the witness of Christ within that’s a good use for the law to understand it was an earthly pattern of the true things that came in Christ
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
the words that I ( Jesus ) speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
John 6:63 KJV
There’s no value left in the corrupt flesh or a law that teaches flesh what sin is once you come to Christ the law has completed its work in you Christ is the culmination of everything the law promosed would come later. The messiah would come and speak Gods true words of requirement.
the law was until the seed of Abraham came forth it was only ever meant to last until the way truth and life came forth the way of salvstion is here now the way of sin and death is not going to help us it never could justify anyone by the flesh it was meant to hold sinners guilty
And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.”
Acts 13:39
But yeah there’s uses for the law it requires us to let it go as a law and look for the witness of Christ within that’s a good use for the law to understand it was an earthly pattern of the true things that came in Christ
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Good points. I have heard several good pastors mention that the best commentary on the Scriptures are the Scriptures themselves. All of it is profitable and we should study all of it as much as we can, because, as you say, more context and understanding of a passage can be provided by another passage of Scripture.
A "cult" by definition is a group - even a nominally Christian group - that takes a particular doctrine out of context and elevates that one thing above all other Scriptures. This is the wrong way to use the Word.
A "cult" by definition is a group - even a nominally Christian group - that takes a particular doctrine out of context and elevates that one thing above all other Scriptures. This is the wrong way to use the Word.
I feel sure that what God tells us and what scripture says is always and ever for our benefit.
By Moses our holy righteous God gave earthly things for them to do, using what they understood as training for the spiritual. Cutting flesh was earthly, but it was to train them about cutting flesh and marking themselves as belonging to God. You go on and on about how that was fleshly and of no value. God used it, I don't think we should tell God he was wrong to use it.
Also, I think we should value the law. We are not to use the commands given to Moses that were earthly because Christ came and put his law in our hearts. If you are against the law and don't want the law in your heart, then you are against God.
I don't think anyone was ever justified by following the commands people were given as schoolmasters to lead them to the law. As an example cutting flesh was never the circumcision we are asked to have, cutting flesh was only to lead them to true circumcision.
By Moses our holy righteous God gave earthly things for them to do, using what they understood as training for the spiritual. Cutting flesh was earthly, but it was to train them about cutting flesh and marking themselves as belonging to God. You go on and on about how that was fleshly and of no value. God used it, I don't think we should tell God he was wrong to use it.
Also, I think we should value the law. We are not to use the commands given to Moses that were earthly because Christ came and put his law in our hearts. If you are against the law and don't want the law in your heart, then you are against God.
I don't think anyone was ever justified by following the commands people were given as schoolmasters to lead them to the law. As an example cutting flesh was never the circumcision we are asked to have, cutting flesh was only to lead them to true circumcision.
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