Is prophecy real today

[MahogonySnail]

Just as faith without works is dead so are words without the Spirit. I find it ironic you are using the law of Moses as your example but Paul calls this the letter which kills, in contrast to the Spirit which gives life. In other words, words without the spirit is empty and dead, words with the Spirit are spirit and life. Christ spoke the latter, and it is the latter we must speak and read. I also draw your attention to where Paul said that :

Heb 4:2 For also we have had the gospel preached, as well as them. But the Word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.



So we see that the Word alone is not enough.

The type of person like this comes to mind: the airy fairy type who are always parrotting God's Word but don't actually have any spiritual power to accompany it.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Their trust is in the Word of God and supposes it itself carries some mystical or spiritual power, but like a Pharisee in Jesus time does not accept the Holy Spirit who quickens it and brings it alive, not realising that the Word is only effective being mixed with faith and coming from a vessel or mechanism who is empowered by the Holy Spirit. But I believe God does not need parrots or tape recorders, but needs people to communicate the Word in power:

1Th 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

And that's why your churches are lifeless dull and boring and ineffective for Christ and people are flocking to the Spirit filled churches.

 

[VW]

First off, let's look at faith. There is a faith of man, man believes, and that faith becomes the basis of his choices, why he makes the decisions he does. Many believe that this is faith that saves. It is only the beginning of faith, not the reality. Faith that saves is faith that comes from above. Peter knew from above, not from anything on the earth, that Jesus was the Son of God, the Messiah. And Jesus was blunt, and told them that upon this revelation from above, He would build His church.

I never meant it to be understood that the scriptures are empty words. However, if i have all of the scriptures in my mind, and the Holy Spirit has not made them alive in me, they are empty words. Why? Because my mind is empty of God. The devil knows the scripture better than any of us, and is it working to his benefit, that is, to his salvation or edification or correction? Not on your life.

All I have ever said is that we have divorced the scriptures from the power of the Holy Spirit, made the scriptures to replace the Holy Spirit, and this to our own destruction. I don't ask you to believe this. But if the Spirit testifies to some that this might be true, that is up to them to seek an answer from Him. I have almost given up on you ever even asking the Spirit about what I am saying.

I do not say these things because I wish to disturb these here, and I would not willing take on such a strong belief without leading. I know, you do not believe that. Nevertheless, that is my word to you. This is not fun for me, to have this disagreement with you, before the whole community, not for my own comfort, but because it is misleading in the extreme. It takes focus away from the real issue, which is how we grow in stature, mature in Christ Jesus, become pleasing in all things to the Father, and do not grieve the Spirit. Become a fit bride for Christ.

Because we will become fit. Take that as prophecy. And it will hurt, and many will be left to flounder and be snapped up by the devils minion. And we, the leaders of the church, will be accountable. We, who have the knowledge, and reveled in the knowledge rather that in the Lord. I for one do not plan to stand before the Lord of glory and hear Him say how I was stingy with His blessings. How I was one who did not teach about His Spirit, about how He is given to us to be Christ in us, to lead us and guide us and comfort us and teach us all things. Even the things we cannot hear without Him. I will not be one of those.

 

[MahogonySnail]

I am sure we've all heard of the term Ichabod. 1 Sam 4: 21. When the ark of the covenant was taken the glory of God departed from Israel. So it is in people and churches whom remove the Holy Spirit, who is like God's ark, from their life by manner of quenching, grieving or insulting Him. Remember disbelief , faithlessness and skepticism is as much a sin as any other.

 

[VW]

Well, the real problem is that the church leadership has grown to like being in leadership, do not like anyone questioning their authority. And for this situation to maintain, they have made the bible to be the the authority of God. This is so they can be more well versed in it than any member of their congregation. They have control of what is believed in this way. But don't let the Spirit minister, or He might override their position. (Please understand that this is not all church leaders, just many.)

The kingdom of heaven is upside down in comparison to earthly kingdoms. In earthly kingdoms, the ruler is at the top, and all those below serve him. In the heavenly kingdom, the ruler is on top, and He serves all those below Him. We seem to have forgotten this of our Lord. He said that if we would be great in the kingdom of heaven, we should become the least, and the servant of all. There are many good men who have the heart of service, but the accepted doctrines of the church have them unwittingly doing what is stated above. That is not an excuse.

If this offends, I apologize.
I tried to provoke thought and searching.

 

[VW]

Precious Brother VW,

Thank you for this Thread, indeed this is very real, and WOE to those that use this for ill gotten gain, or in a detrimental way...........surely it won't last for them.........

THE 5 FOLD MINISTRY IS BEING RESTORED TODAY, THIS IS THE SHAKING UP OF THE CHURCH, PARTICULARLY, IN THE SCRIPTURE THAT READS.....

IF JUDGEMENT BEGINS AT THE HOUSE OF GOD.....................You no doubt know what I am saying here.......

FATHER is indeed restoring the Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, PASTORS* and Teachers..............

Now I capitalized Pastors, because it was never FATHER'S intention that the Pastors do everything in their Churches, this is why FATHER appointed the rest of these most important OFFICES of the Church.........Just one look at most Pastors, or if you attend many Churches today, across denominational lines, will show you .....................Most of the Pastors are BURNT OUT, They are exhausted, just tired........They need help. This is beginning to be restored now......AND THE ASTERISK PLACED NEXT TO PASTORS, ABOVE........This is the reality of FATHER raising up Pastors AFTER HIS HEART....

SeekinHIM................GOOD POST VW. THANK YOU.......

I almost did not begin this task. It is difficult for me to start dissension. I do not like conflict. I knew that there would be some who would treat this as an attack. Thank you for your encouragement.

In His everlasting love.

 

[shad]

Nope, I just don't think that it would be profitable. Maybe even detrimental.

Are you trying to tell me and others that coming to the knowledge of the truth is unprofitable and detrimental?

I mean, we can't even come close to why the church at Corinth had the troubles it had.

Again, are you trying to say that we have no way to dig in and study the history of the church at Corinth through isagogics and other means? It is all right there in those two letters if you really want to study thoroughly and exegete every word. But you are either too lazy or you are afraid of what you might find out.

You see, you misunderstood almost everything I have tried to get across, discounted it as an attack of the enemy, because you refuse to believe that I esteem the word, just not as the end all of the knowledge of God, and that mainly because the readers, us, are weak and unreliable.

I understood everything you said. Do you think that you are the first to come across in this manner? God gets tremendous glory and pleasure in choosing the weak, the foolish and the unreliable to confound the wise and the things that are mighty / 1Cor 1:26,27. You cut short God's ability to raise up those that he has called by grace.

The word of God as written is perfect. I have never disputed this fact. But because I put forth the concern that we have used the word and our understanding of it to grieve the Holy Spirit, you automatically consider me a threat. Which makes me wonder about just where your heart is in regard to idols.

I do not like to be in these situations, I hate them, but the Lord is leading me, just as you believe the Lord is leading you. I will answer to Him for my wrongs.

You don't want to follow God's word all the way through because you have some subjective issues that have not been resolved objectively. You have been wounded in the past and those wounds have affected your understanding and caused you to have conclusions that are not balanced. You have a good heart and love God but you have put yourself under some teachings that are not sound in word or doctrine and you hate to be in this situation because it has produced instability in your life and affected you emotionally.

 

[VW]

Nope, I just don't think that it would be profitable. Maybe even detrimental.

Are you trying to tell me and others that coming to the knowledge of the truth is unprofitable and detrimental?

I mean, we can't even come close to why the church at Corinth had the troubles it had.

Again, are you trying to say that we have no way to dig in and study the history of the church at Corinth through isagogics and other means? It is all right there in those two letters if you really want to study thoroughly and exegete every word. But you are either too lazy or you are afraid of what you might find out.

You see, you misunderstood almost everything I have tried to get across, discounted it as an attack of the enemy, because you refuse to believe that I esteem the word, just not as the end all of the knowledge of God, and that mainly because the readers, us, are weak and unreliable.

I understood everything you said. Do you think that you are the first to come across in this manner? God gets tremendous glory and pleasure in choosing the weak, the foolish and the unreliable to confound the wise and the things that are mighty / 1Cor 1:26,27. You cut short God's ability to raise up those that he has called by grace.

The word of God as written is perfect. I have never disputed this fact. But because I put forth the concern that we have used the word and our understanding of it to grieve the Holy Spirit, you automatically consider me a threat. Which makes me wonder about just where your heart is in regard to idols.

I do not like to be in these situations, I hate them, but the Lord is leading me, just as you believe the Lord is leading you. I will answer to Him for my wrongs.

You don't want to follow God's word all the way through because you have some subjective issues that have not been resolved objectively. You have been wounded in the past and those wounds have affected your understanding and caused you to have conclusions that are not balanced. You have a good heart and love God but you have put yourself under some teachings that are not sound in word or doctrine and you hate to be in this situation because it has produced instability in your life and affected you emotionally.

Is this a word of knowledge?

I have not been under another's teaching for a long time. I was placed under the teaching of the Holy Spirit over 15 years ago. I have been wounded, and the Lord Jesus has healed me and made me to be what He wants. Balance is a crock. As in crock pot. In only one place is extremism acceptable, and that is in devotion to Jesus.

Sound doctrine is nothing if it precludes the work of the Holy Spirit. I would rather have the Spirit as my anchor than all of the doctrines in the world. He is my seal of adoption, my proof of sonship, my very life. How can I hold something that comes from Him over His head, and tell Him that He must, must, meet my understanding of that which is from Him. This is insane to me. He is God, and He is in me. I asked for Him, because I needed Him. And like David, I pray to the Father, "Please never take Thy Spirit away from me." For I would be lost without Him, unable to endure a single minute of separation from my Lord.

I do not like this because it is still doing no good. You are not convinced. I will always seek the Lord's face in what I say and write. He is the authority, above all authority.

 

[shad]

Their trust is in the Word of God and supposes it itself carries some mystical or spiritual power, but like a Pharisee in Jesus time does not accept the Holy Spirit who quickens it and brings it alive, not realising that the Word is only effective being mixed with faith and coming from a vessel or mechanism who is empowered by the Holy Spirit. But I believe God does not need parrots or tape recorders, but needs people to communicate the Word in power:

1Th 1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

And that's why your churches are lifeless dull and boring and ineffective for Christ and people are flocking to the Spirit filled churches.

I would like to boast in the Lord a little and briefly mention what God has done in the ministry that God called me and others to be a participant. Since 1975 God has given us over 450 local indigenous churches in 69 countries. Not bad for a dull and boring church that's ineffective for Christ. We see people putting their faith in Christ every single week without exception. Some follow Christ and some do not, but all are feed the word of God. Believers hunger after the word of God and they are filled and the Holy Spirit has never been slighted or put in the back seat.

Those that were sent out in obedience to the great commission were trained right in the local church and through our Bible Schools. There have been trials, tribulations and persecutions and God has been faithful throughout them all as He is with others ministries and local churches, who have been called to do the same because we have the same Lord, the same faith, the same Spirit and the same gospel that we preach, Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

I am sure that God has raised up churches in your area that He has called by grace that have a work to do in all the world. Seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you.

 

[VW]

I would like to boast in the Lord a little and briefly mention what God has done in the ministry that God called me and others to be a participant. Since 1975 God has given us over 450 local indigenous churches in 69 countries. Not bad for a dull and boring church that's ineffective for Christ. We see people putting their faith in Christ every single week without exception. Some follow Christ and some do not, but all are feed the word of God. Believers hunger after the word of God and they are filled and the Holy Spirit has never been slighted or put in the back seat.

Those that were sent out in obedience to the great commission were trained right in the local church and through our Bible Schools. There have been trials, tribulations and persecutions and God has been faithful throughout them all as He is with others ministries and local churches, who have been called to do the same because we have the same Lord, the same faith, the same Spirit and the same gospel that we preach, Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

I am sure that God has raised up churches in your area that He has called by grace that have a work to do in all the world. Seek and you shall find, knock and the door shall be opened unto you.

And for this work, I praise God, for it is by His power in the Holy Spirit that any lasting work is done.

 

[shad]

Is this a word of knowledge?

I have not been under another's teaching for a long time. I was placed under the teaching of the Holy Spirit over 15 years ago. I have been wounded, and the Lord Jesus has healed me and made me to be what He wants. Balance is a crock. As in crock pot. In only one place is extremism acceptable, and that is in devotion to Jesus.

Sound doctrine is nothing if it precludes the work of the Holy Spirit. I would rather have the Spirit as my anchor than all of the doctrines in the world. He is my seal of adoption, my proof of sonship, my very life. How can I hold something that comes from Him over His head, and tell Him that He must, must, meet my understanding of that which is from Him. This is insane to me. He is God, and He is in me. I asked for Him, because I needed Him. And like David, I pray to the Father, "Please never take Thy Spirit away from me." For I would be lost without Him, unable to endure a single minute of separation from my Lord.

I do not like this because it is still doing no good. You are not convinced. I will always seek the Lord's face in what I say and write. He is the authority, above all authority.

'Balance is a crock. As in crock pot. In only one place is extremism acceptable, and that is in devotion to Jesus.

That is not what the Lord thinks about balance.

Prov 11:1A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Prov 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD's: all the weights of the bag are his work.

Prov 20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.

Job 31:6 Let me be weighed in an even balance that God may know mine integrity.

Do these verses have no meaning to you or do you exclude them from your faith? Are you going to seek the Lord's face in the authority of what His word has testified concerning Him and what he thinks of balance?

 

[VW]

'Balance is a crock. As in crock pot. In only one place is extremism acceptable, and that is in devotion to Jesus.

That is not what the Lord thinks about balance.

Prov 11:1A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Prov 16:11 A just weight and balance are the LORD's: all the weights of the bag are his work.

Prov 20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.

Job 31:6 Let me be weighed in an even balance that God may know mine integrity.

Do these verses have no meaning to you or do you exclude them from your faith? Are you going to seek the Lord's face in the authority of what His word has testified concerning Him and what he thinks of balance?

These quotes are not about the balance I am talking about, and you know it. The balance is what you first mentioned, and it has nothing to do with weights or measures. You were talking about a balance between the written word and the Spirit's revelation.

 

[VW]

And you did not answer. Is what you wrote about me a word of knowledge?

Again, I do not like this. You are a minister of God. I do not want to argue with you.

 

[shad]

These quotes are not about the balance I am talking about, and you know it. The balance is what you first mentioned, and it has nothing to do with weights or measures. You were talking about a balance between the written word and the Spirit's revelation.

Those verses certainly do apply and have a most definite application in relationship to the written word and the Spirit's function in relationship to it. Every believer must find that balance. We do not mix faith with the Spirit. We mix faith with the written word and the Spirit sets us apart unto obedience / 1Pt 1:2. Perhaps you should ask God to show you through the Holy Spirit how those verses do apply in this area. Maybe you have a measure of faith that is not a just weight in the truth concerning the Spirit and the written word and it gives you a false balance in your understanding.

* Not a gift of knowledge, just a deduction based on the spirit in which you convey your thoughts about the truth.

 

[VW]

Those verses certainly do apply and have a most definite application in relationship to the written word and the Spirit's function in relationship to it. Every believer must find that balance. We do not mix faith with the Spirit. We mix faith with the written word and the Spirit sets us apart unto obedience / 1Pt 1:2. Perhaps you should ask God to show you through the Holy Spirit how those verses do apply in this area. Maybe you have a measure of faith that is not a just weight in the truth concerning the Spirit and the written word and it gives you a false balance in your understanding.

* Not a gift of knowledge, just a deduction based on the spirit in which you convey your thoughts about the truth.

And so you are totally off base in what you have said about me. Instead of thinking about how I am so wrong, maybe you should have sought a word of knowledge.

This is most unusual. We do not mix faith with the Spirit. Let us take the passage. (I do not take one verse to prove anything. If the Spirit wants to do that, I believe Him, but not man. One verse is not a complete thought, and can and most often will lead to misunderstanding or even deception.)

This is from the NASB. "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynis, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood. May grace and peace be yours in full measure.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials that the proof of your faith being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by life, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your soul. As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search and inquiry, seeking to know what person or time they Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you in these things which now have been announced to you, through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven- things into which angels long to look."

Hum.........I do not see this passage as saying what you are implying it does.

Again, for the third time, I do not like this.

 

[greatkraw]

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

So if there are still Apostles today - when do you think the foundation will be finally finished so God can actually build the building?

 

[machew]

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

So if there are still Apostles today - when do you think the foundation will be finally finished so God can actually build the building?

This has definitely been a debate for a while. Are there modern day apostles and prophets? Even though it seems clear in our English translations, the Greek word for "built" in the greek: epoikodomeō is used in both present and past tense for the word build in other places in the Bible.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2026&t=NASB

So this makes this a bit ambiguous. Of course you can say it is intended to mean this or that, because that is what was accepted from our church fathers, but this doesn't discount the fact, that you can't say for sure which tense the word build is meant to be in Eph 2:20. Because this was translated by a human being, there are sometimes theological bents in the translations of scripture. I'm not saying that there definitely is in Ephesians 2:20, I'm just saying that there could be.

 

[shad]

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

So if there are still Apostles today - when do you think the foundation will be finally finished so God can actually build the building?

Don't you know that when you say things like that that you are causing some to have tremendous emotional problems because they are not able to reconcile your statement of truth with their understanding. I have to admit though, that is a very good question and so easy to answer that even a cave man could do it.

 

[machew]

Don't you know that when you say things like that that you are causing some to have tremendous emotional problems because they are not able to reconcile your statement of truth with their understanding. I have to admit though, that is a very good question and so easy to answer that even a cave man could do it.

Read my previous post. It is not as certain as you think it is.

Machew

 

[VW]

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

So if there are still Apostles today - when do you think the foundation will be finally finished so God can actually build the building?

I would guess some time before His return.