Is repentance of sin necessary for salvation?

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CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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#61
Might that burden and heavy load be the Law?

Do we repent of works righteousness?
Possibly. I was thinking it could be any burden we bear that feels heavy to carry. In the verses he did not specify as to what the heavy burdens are. He just invited those who are weary and carry heavy burdens to come to him and find rest. Charles Stanley spoke on the passage and showed a picture of what a yoke looked like. I did not really know what a yoke looked like but seeing it was encouraging. When your under Jesus yoke I take that to mean walking with Jesus side by side and that you are connected with him and will not be separated. When Jesus says his yoke is easy and his burden light, I take it to mean he bears the heavy weight of the burdens. We just got to trust him with it all.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#63
Yes. Exactly.



Do you mean working for righteousness? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this.

Do you mean not believing the Lord gives us Rest?
Yes we repent of working for righteousness.
Then He becomes our rest. :)
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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#64
1 Timothy 1:15 Paul says:

"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief."
I was looking for that verse.
Think about what you are implying Paul as saying.
Do you really think Paul was saying, he IS, currently or in the present tense, the worst, biggest, or chiefest of sinners?
If that be true, then why are we following a sinner to teach us about righteousness?
What a hypocrite! Having a sinner telling us how to live a godly life in Christ when he can't do it himself?
Do you go to the sick to learn how to get healed?
Or the poor on how to get wealth?
My point is, Paul is not saying he IS the worst of all sinners, but was referring to the time he persecuted the church.

1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

That thought never left him when writing his epistles, and so, while referring back to the time of his persecuting the church, he said he was the biggest or worst of sinners Jesus came into the world to save.
NOT that he is a sinner, but that he WAS one BEFORE Jesus saved him.
The subject is of Jesus saving sinners, not the righteous, and Paul is saying, when he was a sinner, he was the worst of all sinners, because of what he did to the church of God.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#67
Interesting quote you used. Do you think the Gentiles could respond to that message?
Did the Gentiles not receive the message of repentance?

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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#68
This is a very simple question to answer. For if there is no repentance, then it would mean that the individual is continuing to willfully live according to the sinful nature.

Repentance doesn't mean that the believer never sins, but that they have changed their mind about living according to the sinful nature, to turn away from it. The true believer's desire is to glorify God in all that they do and to honor God with their bodies.

Unrepentance, is simply the decision to remain living according to the sinful nature, which leads to death.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
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#70
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us." (1 John 1:8)

In the scripture above, John is referring to those who are in Christ, not unbelievers. Though we are in Christ, we are still sinners. But when we received Christ we were credited with righteousness and reconciled to God. God sees us through the spectacles of Christ as righteous, though we ourselves are still sinners. When the gathering occurs and we go from mortal to immortal, then we will be free of the sinful nature.
There's a difference between HAVING sin and BEING one.
The scripture you are referring to talks about us HAVING sin in us.
That doesn't make us sinners.
Sinners don't have the new bottle skins for the NEW WINE, but the righteous do.
Let me give you some example of what God has to say about sinners.

Gen_13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

Psa_1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

Psa_26:9 Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with bloody men:

Psa_51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Pro_13:21 Evil pursueth sinners: but to the righteous good shall be repayed.

Mat_26:45 Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.

Joh_9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

Rom_5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Heb_7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Jas_4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

We, who are born again, are not sinners.
We sin, yes, but are not sinners in the eyes of God.
I think the scriptures above prove that.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
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#71
Ok.

So you are just messing around and you accidentally come to Christ and then you tell Him that you refuse to turn away from your sin.

And you are wondering if you receive forgiveness for sin that you don't even care is sin.

You are wondering if you will be born again.


I couldn't imagine such a flippant attitude towards Christ.

I also can't imagine thinking that I could just accept Christ into my heart and by my own imagination and strength He would be there and cause me to be born again and forgiven of all my sins. Even sins I didn't have the decency to ask to be forgiven.
No, I wasn't messing around and by chance came to Christ.
I had someone lead me in prayer, but though I might have said, "forgive me of my sins", I never repented of anything, because I thought I was a pretty good person, as is, at the time.
My thoughts weren't on the repentance, but on knowing I needed a savior and by believing that was taken care of by asking Him to come into my heart.
I didn't understand anything, I just believed what they told me.
That's all I picked up at the time.
But after I came to Christ, things that were okay before started bothering me. I was being convicted of those things by the Spirit.
Why did they bother me after I accepted Jesus and not before?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#72
No, I wasn't messing around and by chance came to Christ.
I had someone lead me in prayer, but though I might have said, "forgive me of my sins", I never repented of anything, because I thought I was a pretty good person, as is, at the time.
My thoughts weren't on the repentance, but on knowing I needed a savior and by believing that was taken care of by asking Him to come into my heart.
I didn't understand anything, I just believed what they told me.
That's all I picked up at the time.
But after I came to Christ, things that were okay before started bothering me. I was being convicted of those things by the Spirit.
Why did they bother me after I accepted Jesus and not before?
Because your eyes were starting to be opened after your prayer to God.

Matthew 13:13-16
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#73
Did the Gentiles not receive the message of repentance?

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.
The Gospel of the Kingdom that was preached by John the Baptist, Jesus, and the 12 disciples was based on Jesus as the promised King under this prophecy in Jeremiah.

Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a Righteous Branch, and He will reign wisely as king and administer justice and righteousness in the land. 6In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And thisis His name by which He will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.

This promise was only for the Jews. That was why Jesus could correctly say the following in Matt 15:24

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Gentiles was not part of that ministry during the 4 Gospels.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,369
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#74
The Gospel of the Kingdom that was preached by John the Baptist, Jesus, and the 12 disciples was based on Jesus as the promised King under this prophecy in Jeremiah.

Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a Righteous Branch, and He will reign wisely as king and administer justice and righteousness in the land. 6In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And thisis His name by which He will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.

This promise was only for the Jews. That was why Jesus could correctly say the following in Matt 15:24

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Gentiles was not part of that ministry during the 4 Gospels.
I see a much bigger plan by God that goes beyond the Jews, to all creation. I think this verse hints at it and testifies to the fact that God chose Israel to make known the Holiness and precepts of God, not as an end, but as a beginning.

From Isaiah: And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#75
I see a much bigger plan by God that goes beyond the Jews, to all creation. I think this verse hints at it and testifies to the fact that God chose Israel to make known the Holiness and precepts of God, not as an end, but as a beginning.

From Isaiah: And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Yes I agree with you. God foresaw that the Jews would reject Jesus and his gospel of the kingdom both in the 4 gospels, as well as later in acts. That is why the bigger plan is for the gentiles to be saved independent of what the Jews do. He saved Paul for that purpose and gave him a new gospel, the present gospel of grace.

But we should not anticipate revelation and say that the gospel of the kingdom was meant for the gentiles. That would go against the message in the 4 gospels.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,369
654
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#76
Yes I agree with you. God foresaw that the Jews would reject Jesus and his gospel of the kingdom both in the 4 gospels, as well as later in acts. That is why the bigger plan is for the gentiles to be saved independent of what the Jews do. He saved Paul for that purpose and gave him a new gospel, the present gospel of grace.

But we should not anticipate revelation and say that the gospel of the kingdom was meant for the gentiles. That would go against the message in the 4 gospels.
I see your point but sometimes we seem to use a microscope where a telescope is more appropriate.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#77
I see your point but sometimes we seem to use a microscope where a telescope is more appropriate.
Yep, so repentance for the gentiles should not be based on that particular message from Jesus, which was meant for the Jews. It should instead be based on 2 cor 5:11 onwards, where Paul urged all non believers, Jews and gentiles, to repent from their belief that God is angry with them for their sins.

Instead God, thru Jesus death burial and resurrection, is now friendly to all of them once again, and they need to accept the message of reconciliation.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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#78
The Gospel of the Kingdom that was preached by John the Baptist, Jesus, and the 12 disciples was based on Jesus as the promised King under this prophecy in Jeremiah.

Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a Righteous Branch, and He will reign wisely as king and administer justice and righteousness in the land. 6In His days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And thisis His name by which He will be called: The LORD Our Righteousness.

This promise was only for the Jews. That was why Jesus could correctly say the following in Matt 15:24

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The Gentiles was not part of that ministry during the 4 Gospels.
Perhaps you should read John 4, and Luke 7:1-10.
Moving forward.......

The topic --->"Is repentance of sin necessary for salvation?"
Not---> did Jesus preach repentance to Gentiles in the synoptic Gospels?

This is where Matthew 4:17 is applicable to the subject.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Romans 3:29
Is He the God of the Jews only? is He not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

Again,
Did the Gentiles not receive the message of repentance?

Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,369
654
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#79
Yep, so repentance for the gentiles should not be based on that particular message from Jesus, which was meant for the Jews. It should instead be based on 2 cor 5:11 onwards, where Paul urged all non believers, Jews and gentiles, to repent from their belief that God is angry with them for their sins.

Instead God, thru Jesus death burial and resurrection, is now friendly to all of them once again, and they need to accept the message of reconciliation.
Again, I go back to the OT for God’s plan, there were conditional and unconditional phases in God’s plan and it was only limited by bad choices.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#80
Again, I go back to the OT for God’s plan, there were conditional and unconditional phases in God’s plan and it was only limited by bad choices.
Interesting, you don’t consider apostle Paul’s gospel presentation as the definitive gospel for all of us today? The Old Testament was almost exclusively about the Jews.

I am curious though, what conditional and unconditional phrases you have in mind? Which ot passage u using?