Is Speaking in Tongues still available today?
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I guess it helps, I think you've misunderstood my position though. I agree with ALL that you just wrote and it's what I've been saying in this thread the whole time. Not exactly sure why you were replying to me as if I wasn't saying these exact things the whole time, that kind of confuses me. Please go back and read what I've said and I think you'll see there must have been a misunderstanding on my last comment by you, or you were just summing up and affirming everything I was saying as an, "we are on the same page", kind of comment. It didn't seem that way though, seems you were just correcting/teaching me everything I was already saying anyway. Not 100% sure though.
Then it seems it was me with the misunderstanding. Oops!
That's why it through me off so much. Very glad I left room for doubt for my doubt.
I do agree so sorry for misreading the "tone", it's so easy to do that I try to always ask first, rather than just assume, which we all know what that does. Thanks, and Have a great day brother.
That's why it through me off so much. Very glad I left room for doubt for my doubt.
I do agree so sorry for misreading the "tone", it's so easy to do that I try to always ask first, rather than just assume, which we all know what that does. Thanks, and Have a great day brother.
But if you look just prior to that, it clarifies what was going on.
Acts 2 NKJV
6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born?
It clarifies that what they heard was them speaking in their own languages.
Then it seems it was me with the misunderstanding. Oops!
That's why it through me off so much. Very glad I left room for doubt for my doubt.
I do agree so sorry for misreading the "tone", it's so easy to do that I try to always ask first, rather than just assume, which we all know what that does. Thanks, and Have a great day brother.
That's why it through me off so much. Very glad I left room for doubt for my doubt.
I do agree so sorry for misreading the "tone", it's so easy to do that I try to always ask first, rather than just assume, which we all know what that does. Thanks, and Have a great day brother.
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There's nothing to debate. If you need the "Gift of Interpretation" to understand tongues, it means it's not a human language. It's a language God created and only understands. Hence the reason it requires the Gift of Interpretation from the Holy Spirit to understand the Holy Spirit inspired language. In laymen's terms, speaking in tongues "IS NOT" human language. If it was then anyone could understand it and there would be no requirement to have the Gift of Interpretation.
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The Bible is very clear here.
In order to understand speaking in tongues, which is the act of the Holy Spirit giving utterance, you need the Holy Spirit gift of Interpretation.
That removes all human language idealism from the equation.
Speaking in tongues ""is not a human language,"" it's the Holy Spirit speaking.
In order to understand what the Holy Spirit is saying you need the Holy Spirit Gift of Interpretation.
Once again, it ""IS NOT"" a human language it is the Holy Spirit's own language.
In order to understand speaking in tongues, which is the act of the Holy Spirit giving utterance, you need the Holy Spirit gift of Interpretation.
That removes all human language idealism from the equation.
Speaking in tongues ""is not a human language,"" it's the Holy Spirit speaking.
In order to understand what the Holy Spirit is saying you need the Holy Spirit Gift of Interpretation.
Once again, it ""IS NOT"" a human language it is the Holy Spirit's own language.
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This forum has consistently devolved over time (not saying it is the fault of the forum or those who maintain it) and many people who used to be here have left. Seems to me, there used to be quite a bit more consistent upholding of biblical truth.
It's a glaring microcosm of the state of Christianity in this country.
It's a glaring microcosm of the state of Christianity in this country.
For many, there is no 'being filled with the Holy Spirit' and receiving gifts given by God through the Holy Spirit. It is supposed to be God's order for the gifts but we all know that there are literally hundreds (prob thousands) of false prophets and teachers who falsely command respect and people seem happy to oblige because discernment is out the window .
I think it is incorrect to state that no human language is a part of 'tongues'....I do not see where that would be in scripture? However, I would tend to think that for most who do 'speak in tongues' that would not prob be true. Also, the abuse of this gift and the faking it all over the place tend to create some of the reactions we see and even read here.
That being said, there are some who go out of their way to belittle, besmirch, attack and negate that gift. I think one day they will answer for that but that is not my judgement. I do know we have a responsibility to study, to seek God, to pray and desire truth. I also suspect that some people who do properly speak in tongues just avoid threads like this because of the animosity .
Saying that speaking in tongues is of the devil, only a pagan practice or kundalini whatever, seems pretty deadlocked in the minds of many. People are taught that gift is not for 'today' and leave it at that. I would caution those who go out of their way to rant against it, to perhaps leave that to people like John MacArthur who has gone off the rails and said that all who speak in tongues do so by demonic power.
One thing for sure, the devil despises this particular gift and not without reason.
I think it is incorrect to state that no human language is a part of 'tongues'....I do not see where that would be in scripture? However, I would tend to think that for most who do 'speak in tongues' that would not prob be true. Also, the abuse of this gift and the faking it all over the place tend to create some of the reactions we see and even read here.
That being said, there are some who go out of their way to belittle, besmirch, attack and negate that gift. I think one day they will answer for that but that is not my judgement. I do know we have a responsibility to study, to seek God, to pray and desire truth. I also suspect that some people who do properly speak in tongues just avoid threads like this because of the animosity .
Saying that speaking in tongues is of the devil, only a pagan practice or kundalini whatever, seems pretty deadlocked in the minds of many. People are taught that gift is not for 'today' and leave it at that. I would caution those who go out of their way to rant against it, to perhaps leave that to people like John MacArthur who has gone off the rails and said that all who speak in tongues do so by demonic power.
One thing for sure, the devil despises this particular gift and not without reason.
I'm wondering where you get this, and how this doctrine evolved. I grew up Pentecostal and I've read a bit about the early years of the movement, the Azusa Street Revival. The newsletter from the revival related testimonies of people hearing 'tongues' in their own language. Vinson Synan, the founder of Pentecostal history as a field of study, interviewed people who were at Azusa Street. It's on YouTube. One of them said what drew people to the movement was the people coming in and hearing their own languages, Chinese, Japanese, etc. I've also read about Russian. Some people have confirmed the interpretation also. And there are testimonies from time to time among Pentecostal missionaries.
What they weren't able to do was go to a foreign country and have the tongue they spoke be the local language. There was no guarantee of that in scripture. God can arrange for that if He chooses. But there is no guarantee of shortcutting past understanding the language, and the preaching of the gospel in scripture was done in a language the speaker understood when we see people getting saved.
Paul's statement that 'no man understandeth him' needs to be taken in the broader context of the epistle. He said in the previous chapter, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..." If it's tongues of men, some men can understand that language somewhere. If it's tongues of angels, some if not all angels may be able to understand that.
I Corinthians 14, after saying 'no man understandeth him' explains that if Paul spoke in tongues he would be like a barbarian-- a foreigner who doesn't speak Greek and says 'bar bar bar'. That doesn't edify others. Tongues have to be interpreted.
Paul doesn't say no one in the universe understands that language except God. That's an odd interpretation that doesn't fit the overall context. But it certainly isn't the historical Pentecostal view. Did it come out of the influence of the Word of Faith movement? I've heard WOFers with similar ideas.
What they weren't able to do was go to a foreign country and have the tongue they spoke be the local language. There was no guarantee of that in scripture. God can arrange for that if He chooses. But there is no guarantee of shortcutting past understanding the language, and the preaching of the gospel in scripture was done in a language the speaker understood when we see people getting saved.
Paul's statement that 'no man understandeth him' needs to be taken in the broader context of the epistle. He said in the previous chapter, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..." If it's tongues of men, some men can understand that language somewhere. If it's tongues of angels, some if not all angels may be able to understand that.
I Corinthians 14, after saying 'no man understandeth him' explains that if Paul spoke in tongues he would be like a barbarian-- a foreigner who doesn't speak Greek and says 'bar bar bar'. That doesn't edify others. Tongues have to be interpreted.
Paul doesn't say no one in the universe understands that language except God. That's an odd interpretation that doesn't fit the overall context. But it certainly isn't the historical Pentecostal view. Did it come out of the influence of the Word of Faith movement? I've heard WOFers with similar ideas.
That fits I Corinthians 14 a lot better than these newer interpretations. I also read about that very thing happening at Azusa Street, except a Russian came in and understood the tongue. I don't remember if the individual understood the interpretation in that case. It was in 'Fire on Azusa' by Val Dez.