IS that really in the bible? 3

[Grace777x70]

I personally believe it's all in the understanding of our identity in Christ..it's about the new creation in Christ..it answers the scriptures below..

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Says..the one borm of God CANNOT sin..not one sin..or a 1,000,000 sins..somethings up here..

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Again the one born of God cannot sin......I believe Paul had the answer to that...just sayin'

Not if he was truly a child of God. In instances where we see this kind of thing, we are dealing with either false converts or Christians who are in a season of extreme doubt, but God will deal with them and bring them back.

 

[Euphemia]

I personally believe it's all in the understanding of our identity in Christ..it's about the new creation in Christ..it answers the scriptures below..

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Says..the one borm of God CANNOT sin..not one sin..or a 1,000,000 sins..somethings up here..

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Again the one born of God cannot sin......I believe Paul had the answer to that...just sayin'

Good word! It is correct that we who are born of God have born again, holy and pure spirits within us, and our spirit is the dwelling place of God---His temple---and so it cannot sin. But our minds and bodies (flesh) can.


.

 

[KennethC]

God does grant the repentance, but He only gives it to those who truly seek His forgiveness.

Continuing to live deliberate sinful lives will not be granted repentance, as clearly shown in the Word.

For it is stated that people who continue sinful lifestyles after given the truth are:

A) deceived

B) have no foundation in Christ

C) trampling Him underfoot

Those 3 are cleary stated in God's word.


I will never agree with doctrines that do one of 3 things:

A) place unbelievers forgiven of sins

(That would entail that they are saved, when they are not. This is what saying all sins were forgiven at the cross before faith, repentance, and being born again /baptism is done does.)

B) places the disobedient saved

(There is enough passages such as Matthew 25, Luke 12, and Hebrews 2-3 that shows the disobedient will not enter the ever lasting kingdom.)

C) denies we are to follow everything Jesus taught.

(Great Commission of Matthew 28:19-20 proves we are)

 

[valiant]

God does grant the repentance, but He only gives it to those who truly seek His forgiveness.

Continuing to live deliberate sinful lives will not be granted repentance, as clearly shown in the Word.

For it is stated that people who continue sinful lifestyles after given the truth are:

A) deceived

B) have no foundation in Christ

C) trampling Him underfoot

Those 3 are cleary stated in God's word.


I will never agree with doctrines that do one of 3 things:

A) place unbelievers forgiven of sins

(That would entail that they are saved, when they are not. This is what saying all sins were forgiven at the cross before faith, repentance, and being born again /baptism is done does.)

B) places the disobedient saved

(There is enough passages such as Matthew 25, Luke 12, and Hebrews 2-3 that shows the disobedient will not enter the ever lasting kingdom.)

C) denies we are to follow everything Jesus taught.

(Great Commission of Matthew 28:19-20 proves we are)

No one has ever suggested otherwise. But Matt 25 distinguishes believers from unbelievers specifically (attitude to 'my brothers'), Luke 12 concerns parables to which you give a false interpretation and Hebrews 2-3 refers to unbelievers. Thus none of them refer to 'the saved'

 

[Dan58]

Which sins? Clearly it means all our sins, past, presence, and future.

Not only have we been forgiven for all our sins, we are now Justified by His Blood!

Yes we do still sin but all those sins have been forgiven. We are to confess these sins to God to "get back" on the right path following God, not for the forgiveness of our sins.

John the Baptist and Christ both called believers to repentance, but your saying we can scrap all that repentance nonsense? This progressive ideology is the same as promoting the OSAS theory, I think its dangerous to inspire people to willfully sin under the guise that their future sins are automatically forgiven in advance. Under this new age theology, if I kill one person, its perfectly okay not to repent and continue murdering more people, because my future sins are forgiven and osas holds me accountable for absolutely nothing. That's not what the bible teaches, everything is conditional, salvation requires belief, and forgiveness is contingent on repenting from sin... jmo

 

[Grace777x70]

There in lies the rub!

c) denies we are to follow everything Jesus taught.

We can make statements which of themselves are true..but are they really?

For instance..Jesus said " go sell everything you have.." -I still have stuff....will I spend eternity in hell for this?

"Cut your hand off if you steal "..I stole before and still have my hands..will I spend eternity in hell for this?


"pluck out your eyes if you lust and it causes you to stumble "..yep..still got the both of them....will I spend eternity in hell for this?


"Be perfect" - I don't know about you..but I'm not getting good marks on that one....will I spend eternity in hell for this?


one lawyer of the law came and asked Jesus "What must I do to be saved?..Jesus gave him the law.." But is that how we are born again today?..by keeping the law of Moses..of course not..it's by believing in Jesus and His sacrifice for us that we are saved... His blood took away our sins for all time!

So..blanket statements without "rightly dividing " the 2 covenants can cause us to get in a mess!

Jesus was the greatest law preacher for those who needed the law..religious people who trust in what THEY DO

Jesus was the greatest grace preacher - to those that knew they needed Him they can do nothing..He is their Savior!

Don't take someone else's medicine!

God does grant the repentance, but He only gives it to those who truly seek His forgiveness.

Continuing to live deliberate sinful lives will not be granted repentance, as clearly shown in the Word.

For it is stated that people who continue sinful lifestyles after given the truth are:

A) deceived

B) have no foundation in Christ

C) trampling Him underfoot

Those 3 are cleary stated in God's word.


I will never agree with doctrines that do one of 3 things:

A) place unbelievers forgiven of sins

(That would entail that they are saved, when they are not. This is what saying all sins were forgiven at the cross before faith, repentance, and being born again /baptism is done does.)

B) places the disobedient saved

(There is enough passages such as Matthew 25, Luke 12, and Hebrews 2-3 that shows the disobedient will not enter the ever lasting kingdom.)

C) denies we are to follow everything Jesus taught.

(Great Commission of Matthew 28:19-20 proves we are)

 

[KennethC]

No one has ever suggested otherwise. But Matt 25 distinguishes believers from unbelievers specifically (attitude to 'my brothers'), Luke 12 concerns parables to which you give a false interpretation and Hebrews 2-3 refers to unbelievers. Thus none of them refer to 'the saved'

I think you need to read Matthew25 closer.

The 10 virgins all believed but only 5 prepared by doing God's will.

Each of the one's He gave talents to He called servants. One though did not act on the faith he was given making him disobedient.

Hebrews 2-3 was not misused for it clearly states because of their disobedience (unbelief) that were not allowed entrance into the kingdom.

Disobedient = unbelief

 

[KennethC]

There in lies the rub!

c) denies we are to follow everything Jesus taught.

We can make statements which of themselves are true..but are they really?

For instance..Jesus said " go sell everything you have.." -I still have stuff....will I spend eternity in hell for this?

"Cut your hand off if you steal "..I stole before and still have my hands..will I spend eternity in hell for this?


"pluck out your eyes if you lust and it causes you to stumble "..yep..still got the both of them....will I spend eternity in hell for this?


"Be perfect" - I don't know about you..but I'm not getting good marks on that one....will I spend eternity in hell for this?


one lawyer of the law came and asked Jesus "What must I do to be saved?..Jesus gave him the law.." But is that how we are born again today?..by keeping the law of Moses..of course not..it's by believing in Jesus and His sacrifice for us that we are saved... His blood took away our sins for all time!

So..blanket statements without "rightly dividing " the 2 covenants can cause us to get in a mess!

Jesus was the greatest law preacher for those who needed the law..religious people who trust in what THEY DO

Jesus was the greatest grace preacher - to those that knew they needed Him they can do nothing..He is their Savior!

Don't take someone else's medicine!

Why is that all the time when a person brings up obeying Christ some of you who want to deny we do resort to using the same faulty arguments ???

The selling everything was said to a rich man to show he trusted his possessions over God. His true master was what He owned.

(This has nothing to do with having things, but of the emphasis put on the things.)

The other thing usually used is cutting our hand off or plucking our eye out. That was not to be taken in the literal sense.

Jesus was making a point of how important it is to remove sinful actions from our life.

 

[valiant]

John the Baptist and Christ both called believers to repentance, but your saying we can scrap all that repentance nonsense?

Now where did they call believers to repentance? They saw those they were calling as lacking in faith who needed a full 'change of mind'.

But there is a difference between a once for all wholesale repentance, and repentance for daily sins.

This progressive ideology is the same as promoting the OSAS theory,

which Jesus did as well John 6.37-44; 10.27-29; 1 Cor 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 1.12; Jude 24.

I think its dangerous to inspire people to willfully sin under the guise that their future sins are automatically forgiven in advance.

No one is doing that. We inspire people to follow Christ. It is true that we see them as 'perfected for ever' in Christ, but that is in order that they might press on in His service. We all wilfully sin. But we do not see it as permissible. Rather it causes us to seek more holiness. If my father says to me, 'whatever you do you will always be my son' , it does not make me go out and sin more.

Under this new age theology, if I kill one person, its perfectly okay not to repent and continue murdering more people, because my future sins are forgiven and osas holds me accountable for absolutely nothing.

Such thinking is stupid and should rightly be condemned, But it overlooks the fact that when I am saved I am not left to 'struggle on' on my own. If I am His CHRIST is saving me. He would never allow me to get away with that attitude. You clearly do not understand the Gospel.

That's not what the bible teaches, everything is conditional, salvation requires belief, and forgiveness is contingent on repenting from sin... jmo

you clearly ARE mixed up. Salvation is God's work. It is not brought about by our belief. Our belief is a response to His call and comes about because we are convinced by Him, not because we 'try to believe' (which would be a 'work'). It is a consequence of not believing in ourselves but committing all we are into His hands.

If I had to 'repent for all my sins' I would be dead before I could complete the work. What I have done is changed my mind about sin and obtained a block forgiveness. Now I proceed as a forgiven sinner dealing with any failures on the way. But I do it as a son already forgiven by his father in order to please the Father

 

[Grace777x70]

Not to be taken in a literal sense...so we can pick and choose what words of Jesus we want to obey?

Why is that all the time when a person brings up obeying Christ some of you who want to deny we do resort to using the same faulty arguments ???

The selling everything was said to a rich man to show he trusted his possessions over God. His true master was what He owned.

(This has nothing to do with having things, but of the emphasis put on the things.)

The other thing usually used is cutting our hand off or plucking our eye out. That was not to be taken in the literal sense.

Jesus was making a point of how important it is to remove sinful actions from our life.

 

[PennEd]

Wherever we see "certain men" in Scripture it usually means either guys with bad doctrine or flat out bad guys.

Certain men in Acts were trying to make Holy Spirit filled saved gentiles follow the law. I love Peter's response to this heresy:
Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ[a] we shall be saved in the same manner as they"

So why do these "certain men" on CC constantly push you need Grace PLUS works to somehow maintain your salvation?

 

[KennethC]

Not to be taken in a literal sense...so we can pick and choose what words of Jesus we want to obey?

No we can not pick and choose what to obey from Jesus and what not.

But we do have to properly discern what is actually being taught by Jesus.

Looking at it in the physical written way only will have you misunderstand the spiritual applications.

The Pharisees were rebuked by Jesus for doing that to the Mosaic law.

They taught and focused on the physical ordinances, but ignored the spiritual aspect.

This is what you do when you take and think we literally have to cut our hands off, pluck our eyes out, or sell off all we own. That is focusing on the physical and overlooking The spiritual !!!

Jesus was showing the seriousness sinful behaviors impose if not dealt with and removed !!!

 

[KennethC]

Wherever we see "certain men" in Scripture it usually means either guys with bad doctrine or flat out bad guys.

Certain men in Acts were trying to make Holy Spirit filled saved gentiles follow the law. I love Peter's response to this heresy:
Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ[a] we shall be saved in the same manner as they"

So why do these "certain men" on CC constantly push you need Grace PLUS works to somehow maintain your salvation?

The passage you give is applied to the written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

It has nothing to do with the standard believers are said will uphold in the scriptures.

Again I say this in bold for the 100th time or so: works do not earn salvation, they are proof one is saved in Christ[/B

A good tree can not bear bad fruit !!!

 

[PennEd]

The passage you give is applied to the written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

It has nothing to do with the standard believers are said will uphold in the scriptures.

Again I say this in bold for the 100th time or so: works do not earn salvation, they are proof one is saved in Christ[/B

A good tree can not bear bad fruit !!!

Don't think I mentioned you Ken. I hope that's not a guilty conscience.


Umm.. The Mosaic Law IS the law. Dealing with everything from diet to sexual relations. Peter rightly said they were unable to keep the law. Why do YOU want to test God and put Yokes on people's backs?

Grasping the fact that although the flesh is dead, our spirit still inhabits it, but our spirit cannot sin, if we are in Christ. It DOESN'T mean we DON'T sin, because we are still in our flesh, but it is no longer US (our spirit) that sins. Once the Lord reveals this truth to us we can truly live free, and sin will no longer enslave us, and we will not even think about doing anything but pleasing the Father.

 

[Grace777x70]

It's all in the "lens"...in reality when we don't rightly divide the Old and New Covenants we get a "mixed" gospel which Paul says is really no gospel. Gal 1:6

I already gave you Paul's gospel in this thread and what Peter preached as well..all documented with scripture...after all scripture needs to be what we base things on.

A mixed gospel has belief in the grace of Christ alone...nothing else....Ok.....Now here is people that have a mixed gospel hear..."you are teaching people to just sin as much as you want..."..which of course is pure baloney!

Grace deeply offends us because..there HAS to be something we do!..it's a "works-based" salvation...which says this..

" Whosoever believes in Me shall have eternal life....unless you sin...I will tell you ( really it's someone else that tells you )when how much sin is enough for Me to leave you even tho I did say..I would never leave you nor forsake you...I just said that you give you a false security... Your sin is too much for Me! My blood just wasn't enough..I need to you to DO your part."

We that look at God's word through the New Covenant "lens"..just can't swallow the above..it is inconsistent with the nature of God and the finished work of our Lord Jesus.

If you mix the covenants...then this is the gospel you get. ( again....we are not saying it's a good thing to go out and sin..it is not who we are in Christ...we are new creations born of Him..and we don't start in the spirit and then perfected by our works..)

just sayin'

No we can not pick and choose what to obey from Jesus and what not.

But we do have to properly discern what is actually being taught by Jesus.

Looking at it in the physical written way only will have you misunderstand the spiritual applications.

The Pharisees were rebuked by Jesus for doing that to the Mosaic law.

They taught and focused on the physical ordinances, but ignored the spiritual aspect.

This is what you do when you take and think we literally have to cut our hands off, pluck our eyes out, or sell off all we own. That is focusing on the physical and overlooking The spiritual !!!

Jesus was showing the seriousness sinful behaviors impose if not dealt with and removed !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Those that said "Lord, Lord..did we not do all these things in Your name.." these people had "good wrork"

They had the exact same "good works" as the disciples ..

One group did it by self-effort..the other by Christ in them. ..Looked the same though,...

Maybe this is why the Lord's angles will separate the sheep from the goats because it is hard to tell them apart.

In the mixed gospel ..the sheep get turned into goats..and then back to sheep again..then to goats..it's crazy..lol

The passage you give is applied to the written ordinances of the Mosaic law.

It has nothing to do with the standard believers are said will uphold in the scriptures.

Again I say this in bold for the 100th time or so: works do not earn salvation, they are proof one is saved in Christ[/B

A good tree can not bear bad fruit !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why is that all the time when a person brings up obeying Christ some of you who want to deny we do resort to using the same faulty arguments ???

The selling everything was said to a rich man to show he trusted his possessions over God. His true master was what He owned.

(This has nothing to do with having things, but of the emphasis put on the things.)

The other thing usually used is cutting our hand off or plucking our eye out. That was not to be taken in the literal sense.

Jesus was making a point of how important it is to remove sinful actions from our life.

Actually this is wrong.

Jesus is trying to show us how futile our attempts to be perfect and save ourselves are.

Sin is serious, it is better to pluck our eyes out or whatever, that is how serious the law is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Don't think I mentioned you Ken. I hope that's not a guilty conscience.


Umm.. The Mosaic Law IS the law. Dealing with everything from diet to sexual relations. Peter rightly said they were unable to keep the law. Why do YOU want to test God and put Yokes on people's backs?

Grasping the fact that although the flesh is dead, our spirit still inhabits it, but our spirit cannot sin, if we are in Christ. It DOESN'T mean we DON'T sin, because we are still in our flesh, but it is no longer US (our spirit) that sins. Once the Lord reveals this truth to us we can truly live free, and sin will no longer enslave us, and we will not even think about doing anything but pleasing the Father.

they judge us as wanting to continue in sin, yet they excuse their own sin..

They are blind to the consequences of the law. And the requirement. so they water the law down to their level. so they can maintain it, and consider themselves righteous.

We admit we can not obey God according to his requirement or his will. and we are seen as loose or hyper gracers..

 

[KennethC]

Don't think I mentioned you Ken. I hope that's not a guilty conscience.


Umm.. The Mosaic Law IS the law. Dealing with everything from diet to sexual relations. Peter rightly said they were unable to keep the law. Why do YOU want to test God and put Yokes on people's backs?

Grasping the fact that although the flesh is dead, our spirit still inhabits it, but our spirit cannot sin, if we are in Christ. It DOESN'T mean we DON'T sin, because we are still in our flesh, but it is no longer US (our spirit) that sins. Once the Lord reveals this truth to us we can truly live free, and sin will no longer enslave us, and we will not even think about doing anything but pleasing the Father.

You do know the is a difference between the written (Mosaic law) and the Moral law of God ???

No I don't have a guilty conscious, just usually when works and faith are mentioned side by side scriptures about the written ordinances are usually used to defend a "no works" needed mentality.

There is a clear standard the Word of God shows believers will walk by, and if not they are not in Christ !!!

 

[KennethC]

Those that said "Lord, Lord..did we not do all these things in Your name.." these people had "good wrork"

They had the exact same "good works" as the disciples ..

One group did it by self-effort..the other by Christ in them. ..Looked the same though,...

Maybe this is why the Lord's angles will separate the sheep from the goats because it is hard to tell them apart.

In the mixed gospel ..the sheep get turned into goats..and then back to sheep again..then to goats..it's crazy..lol

Jesus said exactly why they did not receive eternal life.

He said they continued to be sinful (lawlessness).

They thought they could serve both Jesus and their flesh(sins). Jesus told them no !!!