IS that really in the bible? 3

[KennethC]

But what debt was paid by Christ? ALL our debt. It is because of this that we have no further need of a sacrifice for sins. 'He has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified' (Heb 10.14). He could not have put it clearer. If we are in process of sanctification we are perfected for ever in His sight. Where then is the need for further forgiveness in order to be acceptable in His sight? We are perfected for ever.

What you overlook is the necessity of the forgiveness of sins in the sight of the Judge, which is once for all, covered by our substitute, where the verdict is 'perfected for ever', and the need of a child for forgiveness from his daily sins in order to restore daily relationship with his father. It is these for which he is chastened.

No I do not overlook anything in God's word, it is man made doctrines that do that such as osas.

How many times does Paul have to say in his epistles that remission of sins and eternal life is only given to those who continue in the faith and are not moved away in order to get people to believe scripture over man ???

I know 20 scriptures Paul says the above !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Really, pulling scriptures to make them say what you want and leaving off other parts.

That does God's word no justice !!!

Yet you do this all the time, and now your judging others of doing it> Tssk Tssk.

 

[FreeNChrist]

By stating it the way he did puts forgiveness of sins before repentance is made, or faith in Christ is established.

Debt is paid but still must be received !!!

And it is received in Christ.

Are you in Christ?? If you have Him you have all the forgiveness you will ever get, and all the forgiveness you will ever need.

Acts 10:43, Col. 1:14, Col. 2:13, Eph. 1:7, 1 John 2:12

 

[Grace777x70]

What is being missed here..is that they did "repent"...( they changed their minds )..which is the real meaning of repentance

....change their mind to believe in Christ...everyone who comes to Christ "repents" because they are not trusting in their own works but in His alone. I repent constantly...the point is..the gospel is not "turn from sin"..it's repent (change your mind ) and turn to God.

We are NOT saying that it's ok to sin...I don't know how many times this needs to be said.

Really, pulling scriptures to make them say what you want and leaving off other parts.

That does God's word no justice !!!

Peter did preach and teach repentance, so did Paul, so I suggest more study done.

Word of advice: Just because a word is not mentioned in every place/scripture does not mean it was voided or done away with.

 

[valiant]

No I do not overlook anything in God's word, it is man made doctrines that do that such as osas.

yes you overlook promises which are absolute and refer to the eternal security of those whom God truly effectively calls. You never controvert them because you cannot. You simply brush Christ and His saving promises aside. If your verses deny what Christ has promised, then you are clearly going wrong somewhere!!! See John 6.35-44 (especially v 39); 10.27-28; 1 Corinthians 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 2.9, 12; Jude 24.

How many times does Paul have to say in his epistles that remission of sins and eternal life is only given to those who continue in the faith and are not moved away in order to get people to believe scripture over man ???

But he NEVER says that they were once saved and now are lost. If I see a notice saying 'do not drive over the cliff' it does not mean that otherwise I will do so. It is ensuring that I do not.

 

[Grace777x70]

I would love to sit down civilly with you to discuss these scriptures.

It's all in the "lens"..example.

Jesus said " If you love ME you will keep my commandments"

self-performance lens = you will prove your love for Jesus by keeping the commandments! = conditional ..it's all about you doing

grace-based lens says = Because you love Me you will keep my commandments = descriptive ..because you are in Me and My life is in you..this is how that life looks like...

It's all in the lens... are these words conditional or descriptive

The New Testament is full of them!

No I do not overlook anything in God's word, it is man made doctrines that do that such as osas.

How many times does Paul have to say in his epistles that remission of sins and eternal life is only given to those who continue in the faith and are not moved away in order to get people to believe scripture over man ???

I know 20 scriptures Paul says the above !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And it is received in Christ.

Are you in Christ?? If you have Him you have all the forgiveness you will ever get, and all the forgiveness you will ever need.

Acts 10:43, Col. 1:14, Col. 2:13, Eph. 1:7, 1 John 2:12

Sadly Ken is not FreeinChrist, But Enslaved in sin,

But he is nt even aware of it.

 

[KennethC]

I would love to sit down civilly with you to discuss these scriptures.

It's all in the "lens"..example.

Jesus said " If you love ME you will keep my commandments"

self-performance lens = you will prove your love for Jesus by keeping the commandments! = conditional ..it's all about you doing

grace-based lens says = Because you love Me you will keep my commandments = descriptive ..because you are in Me and My life is in you..this is how that life looks like...

It's all in the lens... are these words conditional or descriptive

The New Testament is full of them!

I have been nothing but civil, and have not said one demeaning thing or been hateful in my responses.

By love keeping His commandments is descriptive of the believers. Why would it not be considered a conditional as well ???

Loving Him is the 1st of the two greatest commandments.

Jesus said those who don't love Him don't keep His commandments.

So does love have to be recognized in a believer or not ???

 

[KennethC]

yes you overlook promises which are absolute and refer to the eternal security of those whom God truly effectively calls. You never controvert them because you cannot. You simply brush Christ and His saving promises aside. If your verses deny what Christ has promised, then you are clearly going wrong somewhere!!! See John 6.35-44 (especially v 39); 10.27-28; 1 Corinthians 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 2.9, 12; Jude 24.



But he NEVER says that they were once saved and now are lost. If I see a notice saying 'do not drive over the cliff' it does not mean that otherwise I will do so. It is ensuring that I do not.

Yes Paul does no less then 20 times, keep studying !!!

 

[FreeNChrist]

Some questions asked are in this video:

Where do you see this absolute "once for all " forgiveness talked about in the Bible?

You seem to think Christians don't have to ask for forgiveness on a continual basis. You said that the bible talks about our forgiveness in past tense. Show me that in the Bible?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OG0-TRAlVs

I think Andrew always wanted to be a rock star....and now he is starting to look the part, lol. Love him, and love his undiluted, unapologetic and unashamed declaration of the gospel of grace.

 

[Grace777x70]

again my precious brother..it's all in the lens....

I have been nothing but civil, and have not said one demeaning thing or been hateful in my responses.

By love keeping His commandments is descriptive of the believers. Why would it not be considered a conditional as well ???

Loving Him is the 1st of the two greatest commandments.

Jesus said those who don't love Him don't keep His commandments.

So does love have to be recognized in a believer or not ???

 

[Vdp]

Where in the Scriptures has God ever said Salvation is received by being without sin?

Where in the Scriptures has God ever said our entering into Heaven is based on being without sin?

John 3:16-18
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Revelation 20:11-15
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


Its not about our sins, its all about accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior and having our names written in the book of life.

Jesus died for all our sins, past, present, and future.

Ephesians 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.

Which sins? Clearly it means all our sins, past, presence, and future.

Romans 5:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Not only have we been forgiven for all our sins, we are now Justified by His Blood!

Yes we do still sin but all those sins have been forgiven. We are to confess these sins to God to "get back" on the right path following God, not for the forgiveness of our sins.

 

[Grace777x70]

He's the Rock Star heretic!..lol....I'm with you about Andrew. Preaching Christ , His grace alone... brings an offense with it for sure....I love the way Andrew handles it....fruit of the spirit in manifestation

I think Andrew always wanted to be a rock star....and now he is starting to look the part, lol. Love him, and love his undiluted, unapologetic and unashamed declaration of the gospel of grace.

 

[Grace777x70]

Just to add some good fun and humor into this thread..let's watch this..Ken..there is no crazy grace stuff in it..it's just funny

https://vimeo.com/91637264

 

[Euphemia]

I don't need a video for both Peter (2 Peter 1:9) and Paul (Romans 3:25) shows only past sins forgiven.

John shows us in 1 John confession needing to be made for future sins.

Also Paul warns Timothy twice about becoming impure again do to partaking in sin again. How can he become impure like Paul said if already forgiven ???

We need to confess (that is, AGREE with God that we have sinned) but as for repentance, we as Christians have already repented of our sinfulness and God has forgiven us of all our sins. Note: ALL. That means every past sin as well as every future sin.

Now, there is a warning in scripture about making a deliberate choice to return to the life of sinning we led before we came to Christ, but that has nothing to do with our occasional sinning as a regular course of living out our faith.


.

 

[james57]

I don't need a video for both Peter (2 Peter 1:9) and Paul (Romans 3:25) shows only past sins forgiven.

John shows us in 1 John confession needing to be made for future sins.

Also Paul warns Timothy twice about becoming impure again do to partaking in sin again. How can he become impure like Paul said if already forgiven ???

Romans 3:25:refers to those who died before Christ walked this earth.
If Jesus only died so past sins are forgiven you have to rip out half the books of the NT for Paul is adamant a christian has a righteousness apart from law/ observing the law. That is not possible if Jesus only died to wipe the slate clean at conversion

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We need to confess (that is, AGREE with God that we have sinned) but as for repentance, we as Christians have already repented of our sinfulness and God has forgiven us of all our sins. Note: ALL. That means every past sin as well as every future sin.

Now, there is a warning in scripture about making a deliberate choice to return to the life of sinning we led before we came to Christ, but that has nothing to do with our occasional sinning as a regular course of living out our faith.


.

can a child of God actually return to being as sinful as he was the moment before he was saved.?

Does not the apostle John say that is impossible in his epistles?

 

[valiant]

Yes Paul does no less then 20 times, keep studying !!!

LOL I have seen all your so-called verses.

show me ONE verse where it says 'you were once saved, now you are lost and unsaved'. (interpretations will not do)

 

[Euphemia]

can a child of God actually return to being as sinful as he was the moment before he was saved.?

Does not the apostle John say that is impossible in his epistles?

Not if he was truly a child of God. In instances where we see this kind of thing, we are dealing with either false converts or Christians who are in a season of extreme doubt, but God will deal with them and bring them back.

 

[Grace777x70]

Something that has helped me is that I never allow obscure scriptures that "seem" to be contradictory to the known truths of Christ's perfect redemption given to us by grace through faith in Him alone..

When I seek the Lord about them...there always is a grace-based answer...when seeking the Lord on issues like this..

this site helped a lot...I would just type in the search area what I wanted to look at..


Escape to Reality

yes you overlook promises which are absolute and refer to the eternal security of those whom God truly effectively calls. You never controvert them because you cannot. You simply brush Christ and His saving promises aside. If your verses deny what Christ has promised, then you are clearly going wrong somewhere!!! See John 6.35-44 (especially v 39); 10.27-28; 1 Corinthians 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 2.9, 12; Jude 24.



But he NEVER says that they were once saved and now are lost. If I see a notice saying 'do not drive over the cliff' it does not mean that otherwise I will do so. It is ensuring that I do not.