Is the Devil bound right now...?
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well, in case of Rev.9 its difficult to say that Satan here is meant. 1. it seems not that the bible speaks from the Person in vers one is the same then in vers eleven.2. the event which is describes from vers 2-10 has so far i know in history till today not taken place. This then must happend, when Jesus has bound Satan while his stay on earth.
so this what we read in Rev.9 has to be in the future.
so this what we read in Rev.9 has to be in the future.
Good day wolfwint,
I would agree with you. In Rev.9 the angel falling from heaven to the earth is not identified, but because of the wording here, that is, that he is said to be falling to the earth, I get the impression that this star/angel is of the fallen variety. In comparison, this angel having the key to the Abyss is said to be "falling from heaven to the earth," whereas the angel in Rev.20 who also has the key to the Abyss, is said to be "coming down out of heaven." But as far as the identity for either of these angels, scripture does not reveal who they are. Also, I agree with you in that, Rev.9, which is the opening of the Abyss, has certainly not taken place yet, for the world would have had to have seen those demonic beings carrying out their 5 months of torment upon the inhabitants of the earth.
I would agree with you. In Rev.9 the angel falling from heaven to the earth is not identified, but because of the wording here, that is, that he is said to be falling to the earth, I get the impression that this star/angel is of the fallen variety. In comparison, this angel having the key to the Abyss is said to be "falling from heaven to the earth," whereas the angel in Rev.20 who also has the key to the Abyss, is said to be "coming down out of heaven." But as far as the identity for either of these angels, scripture does not reveal who they are. Also, I agree with you in that, Rev.9, which is the opening of the Abyss, has certainly not taken place yet, for the world would have had to have seen those demonic beings carrying out their 5 months of torment upon the inhabitants of the earth.
Rev 9.1-11 is a description of the release from the Abyss of a multitude of evil spirits under their king. He was the king of the Abyss because the evil spirits acknowledged him as their king, and they were in the Abyss. He was named Abaddon or Apollyon because he is the destroyer.
the Beast was released at the same time (17.8). This is the release of Satan per rev 20.1-3.
the Beast was released at the same time (17.8). This is the release of Satan per rev 20.1-3.
Hello again wolfwint,
Do not be deceived, the fifth trumpet has not yet taken place and therefore, those demonic beings have not yet been released from the Abyss. Before the fifth trumpet can be sounded, the first seal must be opened, followed by the rest of the seals and then the seven trumpets. Have you ever read of any historical account of the inhabitants of the earth being tormented by the entities described in the fifth trumpet? No, we have no record of such an event and I'm sure that regarding the nature of it, someone would have made note of it.
Also, the angel of the Abyss is not Satan, but is another fallen angel whose name is Destroyer. This is easy enough to prove being that when Christ returns the beast/destroyer and the false prophet are both thrown alive into the lake of fire, where Satan is thrown into the Abyss and sealed in it for that thousand years. So you see, both the beast and Satan go to two different places when Christ returns and therefore they cannot be the same entity.
Currently, that beast is still in the Abyss with those other demonic beings and will be let out once the fifth trumpet is sounded. Satan is still out in the world as you are reading this and will continue to be in the world until Christ returns at the end of the age, at which point he will be thrown into the Abyss, which is that same place where the destroyer angel is currently bound in.
Do not be deceived, the fifth trumpet has not yet taken place and therefore, those demonic beings have not yet been released from the Abyss. Before the fifth trumpet can be sounded, the first seal must be opened, followed by the rest of the seals and then the seven trumpets. Have you ever read of any historical account of the inhabitants of the earth being tormented by the entities described in the fifth trumpet? No, we have no record of such an event and I'm sure that regarding the nature of it, someone would have made note of it.
Also, the angel of the Abyss is not Satan, but is another fallen angel whose name is Destroyer. This is easy enough to prove being that when Christ returns the beast/destroyer and the false prophet are both thrown alive into the lake of fire, where Satan is thrown into the Abyss and sealed in it for that thousand years. So you see, both the beast and Satan go to two different places when Christ returns and therefore they cannot be the same entity.
Currently, that beast is still in the Abyss with those other demonic beings and will be let out once the fifth trumpet is sounded. Satan is still out in the world as you are reading this and will continue to be in the world until Christ returns at the end of the age, at which point he will be thrown into the Abyss, which is that same place where the destroyer angel is currently bound in.
We have already been over this before.
Rev 1.18 informs the reader that ONLY Jesus holds the KEYS.
In Rev 9, a KEY was GIVEN to a fallen angel who did NOT formerly have it.
In Rev 20, The MESSENGER (i.e. Jesus), under His own controlled power, ALREADY possesses the KEY - just like HE told you in the very first chapter.
You like to take Rev in order, but then you completely ignore the sequence of the KEYS.
Rev 1.18 informs the reader that ONLY Jesus holds the KEYS.
In Rev 9, a KEY was GIVEN to a fallen angel who did NOT formerly have it.
In Rev 20, The MESSENGER (i.e. Jesus), under His own controlled power, ALREADY possesses the KEY - just like HE told you in the very first chapter.
You like to take Rev in order, but then you completely ignore the sequence of the KEYS.
The demons most certainly have been released from their prison.
Try reading Luke 10, and see how it exactly mirrors what is stated in Rev 9...
Luke 10.18 - 20
And He said to them, I saw Satan falling out of Heaven as lightning! Behold, I have given you the authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and on all the power of the hostile one, and nothing shall hurt you, no, never! But stop rejoicing in this, that the evil spirits submit to you. But rather rejoice that your names are written in Heaven.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the demons in Jesus' time were described in the very same fashion (i.e. as scorpions & snakes) as that in Rev 9 - which you laughably think is some futuristic event.
Demons were loose in Jesus' day.
Further, the Gospel passage in Luke 8.31 that you love to use, regarding the demon's pleading with Jesus NOT to cast them into the abyss, further proves my point!
It proves that ONLY Jesus has the power to cast down evil into the abyss (hence He is The Messenger in Rev 20)...and secondly, the demons were pleading with Jesus NOT to go into the abyss because they had ALREADY been there!
Start using your head...
Dear Bowman, that´s rigth in Rev. 1.18 held Jesus the key of hell and death. But in Rev.9,1 and in 20,1 is not talking about the key of hell and death, but talking about the key of the bottomless pit. The bible sees here 2 different places. The bottomless pit is not the hell and the death. In rev 20,1-3 read that satan was bound in that bottomless pit for 1000 years. In 20,10 we rad that the Devil/Satan was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. What we normaly see as hell.
So the keys in Rev.1,18 and 9,1/20,1 are not the same. And the holders of the key are also not the same. In 1,18 is it Jesus Christ. And in Rev 9,1 and 20,1 is it an angel.
How do you came to the conclusion that this is Jesus? And how is your explanation for Rev.9,1-10? When this event has taken place?
So the keys in Rev.1,18 and 9,1/20,1 are not the same. And the holders of the key are also not the same. In 1,18 is it Jesus Christ. And in Rev 9,1 and 20,1 is it an angel.
How do you came to the conclusion that this is Jesus? And how is your explanation for Rev.9,1-10? When this event has taken place?
As it will be invisible to men as all spiritual warfare is we will not necessarily know when it has happened. But as it is connected with the fifth trumpet it would be later rather than earlier. Indeed on this release Satan has 'but a little time'. It may be the cause of the present eruptions in the Middle East (a main part of John's world) or it may yet be to come before Christ's coming. Meanwhile with the saints in Heaven we 'live and reign with Christ' (Rev 20.4-5).
Revelation repeats its material over and over again, in various ways....like chords in music.
Jesus is referred to as 'Messenger' in other parts of scripture....most notably in the OT, as Malek Yahweh, and even in the NT....thus, why are you surprised when He is referred to as 'Messenger' (NOT angel!) in Rev 20?
Jesus is referred to by over 30+ names and epithets in the Book of Revelation, alone....and yet, you people reject that 'Messenger' refers to Jesus in Rev 20...why?!
Only God, Himself, Jesus Christ, has the power to cast Satan from Heaven....and then cast Satan into the abyss....but....you people would rather rob God of His power and give it to one of His creations....so pathetic of you...
Now how can you possibly know that? When it happens it will be invisible to men as all Satanic activity is.
The first seal was opened in John's time, in 1st century AD in accordance with Jesus promises in Mtt 24.
The first five seals have already been opened. The sixth describes the second coming.
lol you hyper-literalists have no idea about the truth. Spiritual warfare is invisible
But he was the king of the released evil spirits. How many kings of evil spirits are there? Clearly it was Satan.
Only if we follow your absurd timetable. Satan will be released from the Abyss BEFORE Armageddon. He will finally be thrown into the Lake of Fire at the same time as the Beast and the False Prophet.
wrong as usual. all go to the Lake of Fire at the same time after the 'thousand years' (long period of time) of this age.
As will Satan.
what proves you totally wrong is that the release of Satan always brings utter devastation to the world. IF he was free now how would it be different from after he was released? He would be wreaking that havoc NOW. Why doesn't he? Because he is bound, restricted, chained.
The first seal was opened in John's time, in 1st century AD in accordance with Jesus promises in Mtt 24.
The first five seals have already been opened. The sixth describes the second coming.
lol you hyper-literalists have no idea about the truth. Spiritual warfare is invisible
But he was the king of the released evil spirits. How many kings of evil spirits are there? Clearly it was Satan.
Only if we follow your absurd timetable. Satan will be released from the Abyss BEFORE Armageddon. He will finally be thrown into the Lake of Fire at the same time as the Beast and the False Prophet.
wrong as usual. all go to the Lake of Fire at the same time after the 'thousand years' (long period of time) of this age.
As will Satan.
what proves you totally wrong is that the release of Satan always brings utter devastation to the world. IF he was free now how would it be different from after he was released? He would be wreaking that havoc NOW. Why doesn't he? Because he is bound, restricted, chained.
Man, you guys are destroying the simplicity of the Rev.9 chapter and its symbols.
The locusts of Rev.9 are not literal monsters; they are certain men. God first covered this idea through His OT prophet Joel. The locust army represents "a nation", a certain people that will strip the wealth of God's people in the last days using... what comes out of their mouths.
Joel 1:1-3
1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel.
2 Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
3 Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.
KJV
God's servants were to stay on the lookout for this event, and tell it to their children, and their children's children until the generation comes that will see it.
Joel 1:4-11
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
8 Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth.
9 The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests, the LORD's ministers, mourn.
10 The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.
11 Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
KJV
The meaning is the locust army will be very thorough, each stage continuing to eat up what the previous one left. The harvest of the field, the corn, the new wine and oil being wasted by them is symbolic of their takeover of the wealth of God's people in the last days. These are not 'real' locust insects, they are men, God is only using the locusts as a metaphor for how they will work upon the earth in the last days.
Joel 2:3-9
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
KJV
They act and work like an army, but it's not a literal army, because notice if they fall upon a sword they are NOT harmed. They enter into people's houses and windows "like a thief". Where did we hear that kind of metaphor before about the thief in the night and being a watchman so as to not allow our house to be broken up? (Matt.24).
In final, God says He will restore to His people what this great locust army destroyed, and He calls them "My great army which I sent among you":
Joel 2:25
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.
KJV
The locusts of Rev.9 are not literal monsters; they are certain men. God first covered this idea through His OT prophet Joel. The locust army represents "a nation", a certain people that will strip the wealth of God's people in the last days using... what comes out of their mouths.
Joel 1:1-3
1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel.
2 Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
3 Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.
KJV
God's servants were to stay on the lookout for this event, and tell it to their children, and their children's children until the generation comes that will see it.
Joel 1:4-11
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
8 Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth.
9 The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests, the LORD's ministers, mourn.
10 The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.
11 Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
KJV
The meaning is the locust army will be very thorough, each stage continuing to eat up what the previous one left. The harvest of the field, the corn, the new wine and oil being wasted by them is symbolic of their takeover of the wealth of God's people in the last days. These are not 'real' locust insects, they are men, God is only using the locusts as a metaphor for how they will work upon the earth in the last days.
Joel 2:3-9
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
KJV
They act and work like an army, but it's not a literal army, because notice if they fall upon a sword they are NOT harmed. They enter into people's houses and windows "like a thief". Where did we hear that kind of metaphor before about the thief in the night and being a watchman so as to not allow our house to be broken up? (Matt.24).
In final, God says He will restore to His people what this great locust army destroyed, and He calls them "My great army which I sent among you":
Joel 2:25
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.
KJV
Rev 9:3-6
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
KJV
These locusts we are told are not allowed to hurt "the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree", so what is that showing us? It means they are NOT literal locusts. And they can ONLY sting those NOT sealed with God's seal. Who are those which ARE... sealed with God's sealing? Christ's elect servants.
Rev 9:7-10
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
KJV
They have the faces as the faces of men because they are men, certain men in the last days that take control over this earth and the wealth of God's people. There's the teeth like lions symbol that was also in Joel about them, meaning like lion attacking its prey it does not let go once it has its prey in its mouth. They sting like scorpions and are given to hurt those NOT sealed for five months. But further down we discover where their power is, in their mouths:
Rev 9:18-19
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
KJV
What comes out of one's mouth? Words. That's how these men attack God's people in the last days, by what comes out of their mouths, pointing lies of deception. The king over them which is the angel of the bottomless pit, indeed is... Satan. That is specifically who the Rev.9:11 is pointing to.
The scorpion is used as symbolic working for how they also attack their prey. A scorpion stings its prey, numbing it, then imparts an acid like fluid into the victim's mouth, turning the victim's insides into mush. A scorpion has not digestive system, so the shell of the victim becomes the stomach for the scorpion, and the scorpion then sucks out the mush from its victim. God is using this as a symbolic metaphor for how these men attack His people in the last days with deceptive lies to try and destroy men's souls.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
KJV
These locusts we are told are not allowed to hurt "the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree", so what is that showing us? It means they are NOT literal locusts. And they can ONLY sting those NOT sealed with God's seal. Who are those which ARE... sealed with God's sealing? Christ's elect servants.
Rev 9:7-10
7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
KJV
They have the faces as the faces of men because they are men, certain men in the last days that take control over this earth and the wealth of God's people. There's the teeth like lions symbol that was also in Joel about them, meaning like lion attacking its prey it does not let go once it has its prey in its mouth. They sting like scorpions and are given to hurt those NOT sealed for five months. But further down we discover where their power is, in their mouths:
Rev 9:18-19
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
KJV
What comes out of one's mouth? Words. That's how these men attack God's people in the last days, by what comes out of their mouths, pointing lies of deception. The king over them which is the angel of the bottomless pit, indeed is... Satan. That is specifically who the Rev.9:11 is pointing to.
The scorpion is used as symbolic working for how they also attack their prey. A scorpion stings its prey, numbing it, then imparts an acid like fluid into the victim's mouth, turning the victim's insides into mush. A scorpion has not digestive system, so the shell of the victim becomes the stomach for the scorpion, and the scorpion then sucks out the mush from its victim. God is using this as a symbolic metaphor for how these men attack His people in the last days with deceptive lies to try and destroy men's souls.
First of all, these beings cannot be "certain men" as they will be coming up out of the Literal Abyss, which is the same place that those demonic beings collectively called "Legion" begged Jesus not to send them into. The Abyss is also the same place where the beast comes up from at the sounding of the fifth trumpet who is that angel called destroyer. And the Abyss is the same place where Satan will be bound during the thousand year reign of Christ. Therefore, that these beings come up out of the Abyss would demonstrate that it is a real place, which men would not be coming up out of.
Just as the scripture says, these beings will be commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months having tails and stings like that of scorpions. That these are the subjects of that angel of the Abyss this would make them demons. In fact, the reason that trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are called woes is because they are all demonic in nature. There is nothing in the scripture that would lend to a symbolic interpretation of this trumpet judgment and therefore it should be interpreted as a literal event.
Just as the scripture says, these beings will be commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months having tails and stings like that of scorpions. That these are the subjects of that angel of the Abyss this would make them demons. In fact, the reason that trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are called woes is because they are all demonic in nature. There is nothing in the scripture that would lend to a symbolic interpretation of this trumpet judgment and therefore it should be interpreted as a literal event.