Is the Devil bound right now...?

[DP]

Later in Rev.12, we are shown the devil once he is cast down to this earth, goes after the symbolic 'woman' of that chapter, i.e., those who keep God's commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 12:15
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
KJV

That flood out of the serpent's MOUTH is that same symbolic working in the Rev.9 chapter with what comes out of the mouths of the locusts. They represent lies of deception.

The events of Rev.9 through Rev.11:14 are about the last three trumpet-woe periods. The 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period flows from Rev.9:13 to Rev.11:14. The Revelation 11 chapter within the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period shows a temple on earth with those who are worshiping inside, and the outer courts tread upon by the Gentiles, and then will all the world rejoicing and giving each other gifts once the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit kills God's two witnesses there in Jerusalem that sent given witness against it. Thus the majority of the whole world are deceived by the false one setup in Jerusalem in that time of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe. That is the time of "great tribulation".

 

[Ahwatukee]

And they can ONLY sting those NOT sealed with God's seal. Who are those which ARE... sealed with God's sealing? Christ's elect servants.

The only group mentioned that is sealed will be the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel and no one else.

They have the faces as the faces of men because they are men, certain men in the last days that take control over this earth and the wealth of God's people. There's the teeth like lions symbol that was also in Joel about them, meaning like lion attacking its prey it does not let go once it has its prey in its mouth. They sting like scorpions and are given to hurt those NOT sealed for five months. But further down we discover where their power is, in their mouths:

These beings are described as having the faces resembling men's faces, teeth like lions teeth, hair like women's hair is because this is what those demonic beings are going to look like. Trumpets 5 and 6 are completely different judgments and should not be combined. At the fifth trumpet, those demonic beings torment with stings like scorpions for five months and during this plague of wrath no one will be able to kill themselves, for death will flee from them and they will have to endure the torment. Trumpet 6 on the other hand, has a third of the population being killed by the fire, sulfur and smoke that proceeds from their mouths of these 200 million mounted troops. Trumpets 5 and 6 are two individual events of wrath. Again, these events should not be interpreted symbolically, but literally.

 

[popeye]

First of all, these beings cannot be "certain men" as they will be coming up out of the Literal Abyss, which is the same place that those demonic beings collectively called "Legion" begged Jesus not to send them into. The Abyss is also the same place where the beast comes up from at the sounding of the fifth trumpet who is that angel called destroyer. And the Abyss is the same place where Satan will be bound during the thousand year reign of Christ. Therefore, that these beings come up out of the Abyss would demonstrate that it is a real place, which men would not be coming up out of.

Just as the scripture says, these beings will be commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months having tails and stings like that of scorpions. That these are the subjects of that angel of the Abyss this would make them demons. In fact, the reason that trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are called woes is because they are all demonic in nature. There is nothing in the scripture that would lend to a symbolic interpretation of this trumpet judgment and therefore it should be interpreted as a literal event.

Oh good grief when will you learn to play along.

It is so simple my friend. The make believe flying scorpions in fact do not sting the make believe 144k .Jesus was just kidding. Anybody knows a make believe seal is canceled by a make believe forehead.

Now,get back to us when you learn to allegorize.

 

[valiant]

Man, you guys are destroying the simplicity of the Rev.9 chapter and its symbols.

The locusts of Rev.9 are not literal monsters; they are certain men. God first covered this idea through His OT prophet Joel. The locust army represents "a nation", a certain people that will strip the wealth of God's people in the last days using... what comes out of their mouths.

Joel 1:1-3
1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel.
2 Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
3 Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.
KJV

God's servants were to stay on the lookout for this event, and tell it to their children, and their children's children until the generation comes that will see it.

Joel 1:4-11
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.
5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
6 For a nation is come up upon my land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
8 Lament like a virgin girded with sackcloth for the husband of her youth.
9 The meat offering and the drink offering is cut off from the house of the LORD; the priests, the LORD's ministers, mourn.
10 The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.
11 Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
KJV



The meaning is the locust army will be very thorough, each stage continuing to eat up what the previous one left. The harvest of the field, the corn, the new wine and oil being wasted by them is symbolic of their takeover of the wealth of God's people in the last days. These are not 'real' locust insects, they are men, God is only using the locusts as a metaphor for how they will work upon the earth in the last days.

Joel 2:3-9
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
KJV

They act and work like an army, but it's not a literal army, because notice if they fall upon a sword they are NOT harmed. They enter into people's houses and windows "like a thief". Where did we hear that kind of metaphor before about the thief in the night and being a watchman so as to not allow our house to be broken up? (Matt.24).

In final, God says He will restore to His people what this great locust army destroyed, and He calls them "My great army which I sent among you":

Joel 2:25
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.
KJV

LOL recognise that they WERE locusts and all is made clear. They have nothing to do with Rev 9

 

[Ahwatukee]

Oh good grief when will you learn to play along.

It is so simple my friend. The make believe flying scorpions in fact do not sting the make believe 144k .Jesus was just kidding. Anybody knows a make believe seal is canceled by a make believe forehead.

Now,get back to us when you learn to allegorize.

Oh yeah! Silly me!

 

[DP]

First of all, these beings cannot be "certain men" as they will be coming up out of the Literal Abyss, which is the same place that those demonic beings collectively called "Legion" begged Jesus not to send them into. The Abyss is also the same place where the beast comes up from at the sounding of the fifth trumpet who is that angel called destroyer. And the Abyss is the same place where Satan will be bound during the thousand year reign of Christ. Therefore, that these beings come up out of the Abyss would demonstrate that it is a real place, which men would not be coming up out of.

Just as the scripture says, these beings will be commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months having tails and stings like that of scorpions. That these are the subjects of that angel of the Abyss this would make them demons. In fact, the reason that trumpets 5, 6 and 7 are called woes is because they are all demonic in nature. There is nothing in the scripture that would lend to a symbolic interpretation of this trumpet judgment and therefore it should be interpreted as a literal event.

They are men, there is no such thing as monsters in God's Word. The idea of locusts coming up out of the pit is symbolic of HOW they work, and who they work for, i.e, Satan. In the Book of Joel 1:6 God calls them "a nation".

The abyss is simply another representative name for the abode of hell which Satan has control over through this world time. It is not the "lake of fire", but like haides as a symbol for his place in Heaven (or in the heavenly dimension). He is not locked in his pit prison just yet at that time of the locusts.

God doesn't give us these natural symbols for no reason. He expects us to understand He is using those natural symbols of locusts and scorpion sting with HOW these men will work upon the earth. We were supposed to understand what He gave about this event in the Book of Joel first. Thus the symbology is NOT literal, but metaphorical applied to how these men will work upon the earth in the last days.

Nor does that great locust army in Rev.9:16 represent a real military army. It represents these locust workers being fully released upon the earth for the very end of this world in the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period. Our Lord Jesus showed us at Rev.11:14 forward the end of these things which makes the events of the 6th trumpet tribulation timing.

 

[valiant]

Oh yeah! Silly me!

I agree with you at last silly you

 

[DP]

The only group mentioned that is sealed will be the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel and no one else.


These beings are described as having the faces resembling men's faces, teeth like lions teeth, hair like women's hair is because this is what those demonic beings are going to look like. Trumpets 5 and 6 are completely different judgments and should not be combined. At the fifth trumpet, those demonic beings torment with stings like scorpions for five months and during this plague of wrath no one will be able to kill themselves, for death will flee from them and they will have to endure the torment. Trumpet 6 on the other hand, has a third of the population being killed by the fire, sulfur and smoke that proceeds from their mouths of these 200 million mounted troops. Trumpets 5 and 6 are two individual events of wrath. Again, these events should not be interpreted symbolically, but literally.

No, instead that is only symbolic for how they work. They have teeth like lions because that is how... they will attack, like a lion does it prey, never letting go once it has a hold of its prey. They have the hair of women because the lies out of mouths will be smooth, soothing, because they represent soothsayers. They have the faces of men because they are men, literal flesh men working for Satan.

They have tails like scorpions because that's HOW they will attack. That means we MUST understand how a real scorpion attacks it prey in nature, and then how God uses that as a symbol for how these men attack becomes clear. Their sting which numbs its prey are the lies out of their mouths that cause deception upon the victim. Those lies act like the acid-like fluid a real scorpion regurgitates into its victim, turning the victim's insides to mush. What's inside a person? Their soul, and that is what is under attack in this working.

We shown they can sting ONLY those NOT sealed with God's seal, so who are those? The unbelieving, the deceived. And not only that, they are told they CANNOT kill them, but only sting them for five months. But for Christ's elect which are 'sealed' with His seal, they cannot sting at all, so what KIND of stinging is that pointing to? It is pointing to the sting of deception. for we are shown their power is with what comes out of their MOUTHS.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Later in Rev.12, we are shown the devil once he is cast down to this earth, goes after the symbolic 'woman' of that chapter, i.e., those who keep God's commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Hi DP,

You need to keep the scripture straight. It is the offspring of the woman who keeps the testimony of Jesus and not the woman herself. The symbols of the woman of Rev.12 is identified in Gen.37:9-10 as being the nation Israel proper.

That flood out of the serpent's MOUTH is that same symbolic working in the Rev.9 chapter with what comes out of the mouths of the locusts. They represent lies of deception.

The flood that comes out of the serpents mouth is symbolic for an army that he sends after the woman as she is fleeing out into the desert to the place prepared for her by God. Regarding this, there are multiple scriptures that use a river, torrents or raging waters symbolically referring to an army, as can be deduced from Ps.124:1,144:7, Dan.11:10, Jer.46:7 and 47:1-3

 

[DP]

Rev 12:7-9
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
KJV

That Scripture reveals Satan along with his angels will be cast down to this earth. Based on the timing of events given with that it is for the last days, at the end of this world, tribulation timing. That timing is what the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe of Rev.9 is pointing to.

So his angels will come here on earth along with him for those events on the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe.

But we are shown the locusts already at work on the 5th trumpet - 1st woe period. That means the locusts on the 5th trumpet are literal flesh men doing that work of the locust army of Joel.

Their working upon this earth is very easy... to see also. They have been gathering the power of nations for quite a while now, and their culmination of that power is for their purpose to bring all nations under a one-world government system over all peoples and nations upon this earth. They have stolen the wealth of nations, especially the wealth of nations in the West. They are preparing the world for the coming Antichrist that will sit in the temple in Jerusalem, the temple shown in Rev.11:1-2 which we are shown some worshiping in, while the outer portions the Gentiles will tread for 42 months, the same timeframe of the dragon's reign per Rev.13.

 

[Ahwatukee]

They are men, there is no such thing as monsters in God's Word. The idea of locusts coming up out of the pit is symbolic of HOW they work, and who they work for, i.e, Satan. In the Book of Joel 1:6 God calls them "a nation".

This is only based on your interpreting it as symbolic. These demonic beings are going to be let out of the Abyss at the sounding of the fifth trumpet, which is also when the beast will come out.

It is not the "lake of fire", but like haides as a symbol for his place in Heaven (or in the heavenly dimension). He is not locked in his pit prison just yet at that time of the locusts.

Hades is a place of temporary torment within the earth which is where the rich man of the rich man and Lazarus went after he died. The Lake of fire is the final place of punishment for those whose names are not found written in the book of life, whose location is not revealed in Scripture and is a separate place from Hades.

People are surely going to be surprised when they see the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments taking place literally, just as they are written.

 

[DP]

Hi DP,

You need to keep the scripture straight. It is the offspring of the woman who keeps the testimony of Jesus and not the woman herself. The symbols of the woman of Rev.12 is identified in Gen.37:9-10 as being the nation Israel proper.



The flood that comes out of the serpents mouth is symbolic for an army that he sends after the woman as she is fleeing out into the desert to the place prepared for her by God. Regarding this, there are multiple scriptures that use a river, torrents or raging waters symbolically referring to an army, as can be deduced from Ps.124:1,144:7, Dan.11:10, Jer.46:7 and 47:1-3

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV

It's actually "the remnant" of the woman's seed, which is about the seed of Israel which became the foundation of Christ's Church, i.e., the Patriarchs, prophets, and Apostles (Eph.2:19-20). But it also includes us Gentiles which "have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

So please, I don't care to get into arguments of what John Darby taught about only the seed of Israel having to experience the tribulation event. It will be us too, as Jesus will come to gather His Church AFTER the tribulation of those days, like He said in Matt.24.

The idea of the symbolic woman flying into the wilderness for 3.5 years (or 1260) days has nothing to do with physical flight. It has everything to do with being 'sealed' by Christ so as to not be deceived by the lies (flood) that comes out that serpent's mouth.

See Isaiah 8 also about that symbolic flood, the Assyrian used as an antitype for what that serpent will try to do in the last days.

 

[DP]

This is only based on your interpreting it as symbolic. These demonic beings are going to be let out of the Abyss at the sounding of the fifth trumpet, which is also when the beast will come out.

I assure you, our Heavenly Father doesn't do monsters. There is no such thing as monsters in all of God's creation. Yet He has used animal beast symbols to represent His enemies back in the OT Scriptures, and also whole nations (see about Neb in Dan.4). In the Book of Joel and in Rev.9, He is using the locust and scorpion symbols in the same manner. It's just that many don't study their OT as deeply as they should, and thus are pretty much ignorant of what OT Books like Joel is about.

Hades is a place of temporary torment within the earth which is where the rich man of the rich man and Lazarus went after he died. The Lake of fire is the final place of punishment for those whose names are not found written in the book of life, whose location is not revealed in Scripture and is a separate place from Hades.

Sorry, I do not believe in the 'Hollow Earth' theory of men. The abode of hell is in... the heavenly dimension, across a great fixed gulf in paradise, like Jesus showed where the rich man was per Luke 16. Greek haides was used in the NT for it because there's no other word in the Greek language to describe the concept. I agree the "lake of fire" is not hades, but is a one time event for after Christ's future thousand years reign, and that death and hell will both go into it and be destroyed as written in Rev.20.

People are surely going to be surprised when they see the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments taking place literally, just as they are written.

If that means seeing literal locusts upon the earth riding chariots and horses, with the hair of women, teeth like lions, and faces of men, then you are mistaken.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I assure you, our Heavenly Father doesn't do monsters. There is no such thing as monsters in all of God's creation. Yet He has used animal beast symbols to represent His enemies back in the OT Scriptures, and also whole nations (see about Neb in Dan.4). In the Book of Joel and in Rev.9, He is using the locust and scorpion symbols in the same manner. It's just that many don't study their OT as deeply as they should, and thus are pretty much ignorant of what OT Books like Joel is about.





Sorry, I do not believe in the 'Hollow Earth' theory of men. The abode of hell is in... the heavenly dimension, across a great fixed gulf in paradise, like Jesus showed where the rich man was per Luke 16. Greek haides was used in the NT for it because there's no other word in the Greek language to describe the concept. I agree the "lake of fire" is not hades, but is a one time event for after Christ's future thousand years reign, and that death and hell will both go into it and be destroyed as written in Rev.20.






If that means seeing literal locusts upon the earth riding chariots and horses, with the hair of women, teeth like lions, and faces of men, then you are mistaken.

Then sir, you don't even know who the enemy is, because Satan and his angels/demons certainly are monsters in this present world.

 

[VCO]

LOL recognise that they WERE locusts and all is made clear. They have nothing to do with Rev 9

Valiant, is this kind of inability to understand the English language a character flaw, in all Englishman, or just you?

Revelation 9:6-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] They had hair like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months.

THESE ARE THE DEMONS FROM THE ABYSS, that swarm like LOCUSTS. You will not be laughing, if you are not part of the Calling Out of the Bride of Christ that happens prior to the opening of the Bottomless Pit.

 

[DP]

The only group mentioned that is sealed will be the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel and no one else.

That's not correct.

The great multitude of Rev.7:9 forward show they are saved, having washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb, and having come out of great tribulation, and then events are shown there with them that will only occur after Christ's second coming. That reveals those were 'sealed' by Christ also, and went through the great tribulation, which is how... they washed their robes in Christ Jesus.

Rev 7:14-15
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
KJV


"Therefore" shows a continuation of the subject in the 14th verse. The events of the 15th verse are future for AFTER the time of Christ's second coming and defeat of His enemies upon the earth, i.e., the thousand years timing of Rev.20 which also includes the temple of Ezekiel in Ezekiel 40-47.

These beings are described as having the faces resembling men's faces, teeth like lions teeth, hair like women's hair is because this is what those demonic beings are going to look like. Trumpets 5 and 6 are completely different judgments and should not be combined. At the fifth trumpet, those demonic beings torment with stings like scorpions for five months and during this plague of wrath no one will be able to kill themselves, for death will flee from them and they will have to endure the torment. Trumpet 6 on the other hand, has a third of the population being killed by the fire, sulfur and smoke that proceeds from their mouths of these 200 million mounted troops. Trumpets 5 and 6 are two individual events of wrath. Again, these events should not be interpreted symbolically, but literally.

Demons are ghosts. They don't manifest as men literally, they possess men literally. Some believe they are the ghosts of the destroyed giant hybrids roaming the earth, having come from the mating of the angels with the daughters of men during the time of Noah. I tend to believe that also, though I wouldn't claim that meaning as absolute certain. In a certain place in Isaiah referred to as "the dead", we told they will not rise (i.e., not resurrect). We know those angels that did that in Noah's day are in chains reserved unto the judgment of the great day, so it cannot be those (Jude).

These angels of Rev.12:9 forward cast down with Satan are other angels that rebelled with him in the time of old. I believe they will... manifest upon this earth with the image of men, as Satan will also in the last days as the coming pseudo-Christ.

I will never agree with you on those points about the locust army of Rev.9. They represent men upon this earth, not literal monsters. God is using the locust and scorpion there as symbols for how they will work literally on the earth.

On the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe, that is tribulation timing. That is not the Gog/Magog event of Armageddon, for it is to occur on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe. The events from Rev.9 on the 6th trumpet to the Rev.11 events up to the 7th trumpet are chronological in order, and are all part of the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe timing. Rev.10 serves as a parenthestical chapter, giving us more info in general.

 

[DP]

Then sir, you don't even know who the enemy is, because Satan and his angels/demons certainly are monsters in this present world.

you're free to interpret how you want, but I am allowing God's Word to do the interpreting, which is what His Word through His prophet Joel does in regard to the identity of the locust army for the last days. I can see that you have never bothered to consider the Book of Joel in relation to the Rev.9 symbolic meaning.

 

[DP]

Valiant, is this kind of inability to understand the English language a character flaw, in all Englishman, or just you?

Revelation 9:6-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] They had hair like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months.

THESE ARE THE DEMONS FROM THE ABYSS, that swarm like LOCUSTS. You will not be laughing, if you are not part of the Calling Out of the Bride of Christ that happens prior to the opening of the Bottomless Pit.

By that you are suggesting a Pre-trib Rapture theory, an idea from John Darby in 1830's Britain that you will be raptured out prior to the coming tribulation. That's not what God's Word teaches at all, which is why those pushing that pre-trib doctrine have mistaught you into thinking the locust army are monsters, when they are men given power over the earth in the last days, the locust and scorpion being used as symbols.

Per Joel 2:25, God calls them His great army He sends among His people. So how is that???

 

[prove-all]

Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!​

 

[DP]

Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!​

So you're Pre-trib?