Is The Earth Flat Or Round?
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So - your position in this discussion is to simply rail at something you know nothing about (and refuse to learn)...???
SMH
SMH
If someone wants to teach me about The Church of The Flying Spaghetti Monster I'm not obliged to take them seriously.
I've already learned more than I care to know about this FE absurdity.
I've heard their spaghetti with flat meatballs is very good.
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The sun moves in the sky just as God said so many many times in His Word.
If you do not believe this = "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."
then your understanding is skewed from the start.
If you cannot see the Truth in Water that seeks it's own level 24/7 on Earth = then your understanding has been redirected by another.
the little girl let's go of her balloon
up up and away
gravity has no sway
lighter then air
it defies that which is not there
If you do not believe this = "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."
then your understanding is skewed from the start.
If you cannot see the Truth in Water that seeks it's own level 24/7 on Earth = then your understanding has been redirected by another.
the little girl let's go of her balloon
up up and away
gravity has no sway
lighter then air
it defies that which is not there
Can you see the vibrations of the Holy Spirit working on this thread?
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."
How were they made? = "Then God said......" "In the Beginning was the Word" = Glorious Vibrations
How did the walls of Jericho crumble = vibrations = And seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams’ horns before the ark. But the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets. It shall come to pass, when they make a long blast with the ram’s horn, and when you hear the sound of the trumpet, that all the people shall shout with a great shout; then the wall of the city will fall down flat.
True science can recognize and to some degree measure the vibrations in creation.
Are we in Harmony with the Holy Spirit?
Are we on the same Wavelength?
"till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,"
Has the forked tongue of the Serpent lulled you to sleep?
Peace to my fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ
and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
"All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made."
How were they made? = "Then God said......" "In the Beginning was the Word" = Glorious Vibrations
How did the walls of Jericho crumble = vibrations = And seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams’ horns before the ark. But the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets. It shall come to pass, when they make a long blast with the ram’s horn, and when you hear the sound of the trumpet, that all the people shall shout with a great shout; then the wall of the city will fall down flat.
True science can recognize and to some degree measure the vibrations in creation.
Are we in Harmony with the Holy Spirit?
Are we on the same Wavelength?
"till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,"
Has the forked tongue of the Serpent lulled you to sleep?
Peace to my fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ
and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
I really enjoy the topic of the robe colour. It really brings to light the need for a good approach in interpretation in order to resolve what can look like a contradiction.
Some possibilities:
1) Two robes of each colour
2) A single robe showing both purple and red colouring (e.g. stripes or some other pattern)
3) A single robe with red on the outside and a purple lining on the inside, or vice versa, and maybe seen from different angles from the account
4) The light hit the robe in a way that one person saw red and the other person saw purple
5) A single magenta robe that was described as purple by one account and red by another (magenta is a type of red, magenta is also a type of purple, both descriptions would be true).
There may be more than just those interpretations, but one of the things that really comes out when we look at some of these interpretations is that an account of something never gives us all the details, just the important highlights (in some cases in the form of parable or metaphor). It is an objective truth spoken through a human perspective. And that was one of the points I was trying to express to John146.
I'm not sure why but the image of Spaceballs and the "we brake for no one" sign came to mind when you mentioned that.
- Peace and all the best (happy All Saints' day too)
Some possibilities:
1) Two robes of each colour
2) A single robe showing both purple and red colouring (e.g. stripes or some other pattern)
3) A single robe with red on the outside and a purple lining on the inside, or vice versa, and maybe seen from different angles from the account
4) The light hit the robe in a way that one person saw red and the other person saw purple
5) A single magenta robe that was described as purple by one account and red by another (magenta is a type of red, magenta is also a type of purple, both descriptions would be true).
There may be more than just those interpretations, but one of the things that really comes out when we look at some of these interpretations is that an account of something never gives us all the details, just the important highlights (in some cases in the form of parable or metaphor). It is an objective truth spoken through a human perspective. And that was one of the points I was trying to express to John146.
I'm not sure why but the image of Spaceballs and the "we brake for no one" sign came to mind when you mentioned that.
- Peace and all the best (happy All Saints' day too)
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That can get into sketchy territory because that is the perspective Moslems take on Christian scripture to promote their idea that it was actually just a "Jesus-lookalike" that was crucified instead of Jesus himself, and that the crucifixion accounts were honest but unreliable.
We should at least approach it from the perspective that God willed scripture to be true in all cases with the caveat that the context or meaning might be unclear in a given description. That the accounts are reliable but incomplete.
This is a great spinoff topic piece by itself, but in the context of the whole flat earth vs globe earth conversation, if we accept the premise that the Bible is written by "reliable narrators" we would still have to find a fitting alternative context to explain some of the verses that FE proponents use in FE position. Figurative language can be an approach for many verses, but we would need to determine a holistic convention for determining which verses would likely be figurative vs literal. Sometimes possible solutions are less obvious. The "magenta" solution for the robe question is an example that might counter our intuitive assumption that "purple =/= red", but "p =/= r" has one case where it isn't true (magenta).
I find that exploring the Greek in the New Testament is simpler than OT Hebrew because the context of the OT Hebrew has had Talmudic Judaism actively trying to reinvent what the language means for two millenia. Their solution to the New Testament is just to call it a lie or unreliable (honest but unreliable observations resulting from deceptive manipulations of demons rather than the works of God). The Old Testament poses more difficulty and need for attention because it is a secondary part of their core scripture (the Talmud is their central body of scripture), meaning that they have an invested interest in trying to claim that some interpretations contrary or incompatible with Christian scripture would be necessary interpretations. We should never trust at face value what a Talmudic Jewish scholar has to say about OT scripture for that reason. We can conservatively count all of the Talmudic Judaic opinion on OT scripture as basically just bad advice. But we can still evaluate their input against the whole of Christian scripture to see how sound it is.
And from individual interpretations often comes an overall approach to exegesis. E.g. using Kabbalah numerology. So if we start from bad advice, we can end up using a bad approach to understanding scripture, and from there end up in all sorts of strange concepts that are inherently unnecessary or worse that are contrary to scripture.
It can be difficult exploring OT scripture because of the mixed signals that can be recieved from nonChristian. Unfortunately, the creation account and flat earth accounts are all in the OT. So if we have a Talmudic Judaic scholar making claims that "these particular types of descriptions are never metaphor because... Kabbalah" it can confuse the issue because some Christians might not understand how it can be bad advice.
It might be the case that some of these "man's description vs objective truth" false dichotomies might come from Talmudic philosophy. And so we can address the symptom (the incorrect belief) or the root of the problem (sympathy or adoption of Talmudic philosophy), but preferably both.
We should at least approach it from the perspective that God willed scripture to be true in all cases with the caveat that the context or meaning might be unclear in a given description. That the accounts are reliable but incomplete.
This is a great spinoff topic piece by itself, but in the context of the whole flat earth vs globe earth conversation, if we accept the premise that the Bible is written by "reliable narrators" we would still have to find a fitting alternative context to explain some of the verses that FE proponents use in FE position. Figurative language can be an approach for many verses, but we would need to determine a holistic convention for determining which verses would likely be figurative vs literal. Sometimes possible solutions are less obvious. The "magenta" solution for the robe question is an example that might counter our intuitive assumption that "purple =/= red", but "p =/= r" has one case where it isn't true (magenta).
I find that exploring the Greek in the New Testament is simpler than OT Hebrew because the context of the OT Hebrew has had Talmudic Judaism actively trying to reinvent what the language means for two millenia. Their solution to the New Testament is just to call it a lie or unreliable (honest but unreliable observations resulting from deceptive manipulations of demons rather than the works of God). The Old Testament poses more difficulty and need for attention because it is a secondary part of their core scripture (the Talmud is their central body of scripture), meaning that they have an invested interest in trying to claim that some interpretations contrary or incompatible with Christian scripture would be necessary interpretations. We should never trust at face value what a Talmudic Jewish scholar has to say about OT scripture for that reason. We can conservatively count all of the Talmudic Judaic opinion on OT scripture as basically just bad advice. But we can still evaluate their input against the whole of Christian scripture to see how sound it is.
And from individual interpretations often comes an overall approach to exegesis. E.g. using Kabbalah numerology. So if we start from bad advice, we can end up using a bad approach to understanding scripture, and from there end up in all sorts of strange concepts that are inherently unnecessary or worse that are contrary to scripture.
It can be difficult exploring OT scripture because of the mixed signals that can be recieved from nonChristian. Unfortunately, the creation account and flat earth accounts are all in the OT. So if we have a Talmudic Judaic scholar making claims that "these particular types of descriptions are never metaphor because... Kabbalah" it can confuse the issue because some Christians might not understand how it can be bad advice.
It might be the case that some of these "man's description vs objective truth" false dichotomies might come from Talmudic philosophy. And so we can address the symptom (the incorrect belief) or the root of the problem (sympathy or adoption of Talmudic philosophy), but preferably both.
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