Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Wrath from God <> Christian tribulation from an anti-Christian

1 Peter 4 (New King James Version)

Suffering for God’s Glory
12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; 13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. 14 If you are [e]reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. [f]On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a [g]busybody in other people’s matters. 16 Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this [h]matter.


17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 Now

“If the righteous one is scarcely saved,
Where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Matthew 13 (New King James Version)


The Parable of the Sower Explained

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
The word tribulation's word origin is from the latin word tribulum, (English: wheat threshing-sledge, Hebrew: morag / מוֹרַג / Strongs H4173 ), used in the harvesting of wheat, to separate the wheat from the chaff in God's harvesting process which may entail tribulation.

Falling-away damage done by pretribulationism, to tribulation awareness of Christians, called to endure suffering in accordance with the will of God ( 1 Peter 4 - New King James Version - Suffering for God’s Glory - 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator. )

Wikipedia Pretribulationism of 1833:

Pretribulationism distinguishes the rapture from the second coming of Jesus Christ mentioned in the Gospel of Matthew, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation. This view holds that the rapture will precede the seven-year Tribulation, which will culminate in Christ's second coming and be followed by a thousand-year Messianic Kingdom.[5][6] Adherents of this perspective are referred to as premillennial dispensationalists. This theory grew out of the translations of the Bible that John Nelson Darby analyzed in 1833. Pretribulationism is the most widely held view in America today, although this view is disputed within evangelicalism.[7]

Withering of (suffering in accordance with the will of God: ) tribulation awareness (falling away) since 1833:

CollinsDictionary.com : tribulation (use in literature whithering since 1833):

View attachment 223562

View attachment 223563
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,395
2,003
113
Seriously? Where is your discernment?
TDW: When I saw a commenter merely say, "typical strawman arguments [against 'pre-trib']"... I figured my suspicions were right on...
One thing I've noticed over and over again (about those AGAINST "pre-trib"), is their saying that "pre-trib doctrine is THE MOST DANGEROUS because..." (and then they go on to explain such "danger" just as the speaker in that vid does [I listened to about the first 10-mins, in which he said as much]...).

But the thing they cannot seem to "picture" [instead] is a scenario in which "an incorrect perspective spouted-off NOW, can have VERY NEGATIVE EFFECTS on those who will exist on the earth THEN [FOLLOWING "our Rapture"], who will have to base their decision [to follow Christ or follow the beast system (posing as the truth)] on what info they've heard [LARGELY before that time-period descends upon the earth (i.e. "in the NOW")]... so if we (TODAY) are leaving POISON "bread-crumbs," so to speak (thinking it is really of LITTLE CONSEQUENCE [to US anyway]), it is THEY who will be affected!!!

(note: I'm not saying that, for us, a CORRECT UNDERSTANDING of "eschatology" affects our "salvation," no [not unless a person themselves connects it with "salvation-truths" for example, blurring some issues, which can indeed be the case])... I'm just saying that "the LIE / the FALSE / the pseudei" (which takes place AFTER "our Rapture/THE Departure") will have the full endorsement by the "religious [but-unsaved-persons-who-will-then-exist-in-the-trib]," and much of the "incorrect" things we say TODAY (like CONFLATING "Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-40 [2nd Coming to the earth] with 1Th4:17/2Th2:1,3a [our Rapture IN THE AIR]" which EACH take place in the EXACT OPPOSITE SEQUENCE [from that of the other]!! [and each (of these two instances/items) saying "FIRST" !! but referring to entirely DISTINCT THINGS, at entirely DISTINCT time-slots!!]--AFTER "our Rapture" this mis-applied passage will BE USED [by Satan and workers of same] TO "DECEIVE"... to their utter destruction, sadly. LET'S NOT HAVE "OUR WORDS" TODAY, impact THOSE PPL in such an ETERNALLY NEGATIVE WAY!! [try to PICTURE *THAT* for a change!! -- not you personally, @Scribe ;) ], for they will only have a SHORT TIME [relatively-speaking] to ascertain TRUTH, and that, during a time OF GREAT DECEPTION!!)
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
12,479
4,112
113
Do you agree that if the scripture says "first resurrection", it is the "first resurrection"?

Revelation 20 (ESV)

4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
is Rev 20 the first " First resurrection is used ?
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
The word tribulation's word origin is from the latin word tribulum, (English: wheat threshing-sledge, Hebrew: morag / מוֹרַג / Strongs H4173 ), used in the harvesting of wheat, to separate the wheat from the chaff in God's harvesting process which may entail tribulation.

Falling-away damage done by pretribulationism, to tribulation awareness of Christians, called to endure suffering in accordance with the will of God ( 1 Peter 4 - New King James Version - Suffering for God’s Glory - 17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator. )

Wikipedia Pretribulationism of 1833:

Pretribulationism distinguishes the rapture from the second coming of Jesus Christ mentioned in the Gospel of Matthew, 2 Thessalonians, and Revelation. This view holds that the rapture will precede the seven-year Tribulation, which will culminate in Christ's second coming and be followed by a thousand-year Messianic Kingdom.[5][6] Adherents of this perspective are referred to as premillennial dispensationalists. This theory grew out of the translations of the Bible that John Nelson Darby analyzed in 1833. Pretribulationism is the most widely held view in America today, although this view is disputed within evangelicalism.[7]

Withering of (suffering in accordance with the will of God: ) tribulation awareness (falling away) since 1833:

CollinsDictionary.com : tribulation (use in literature whithering since 1833):

tribulation.jpg
tribulation word origin.jpg
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,395
2,003
113
NO ONE is encouraging ANYONE to NOT "endure hardship / suffering / afflictions / persecutions / tribulations / troubles / etc..." (and even MARTYRDOM)... now or at ANY TIME during our existence on the earth. (THAT is an entirely different issue... and is NOT what the "pre-trib viewpoint" [which I hold to] is promulgating! ;) Wow. )




[strawmen after strawmen after strawmen... Please get the doctrine you are "against" STRAIGHT, at least, before arguing AGAINST IT ;) ]
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2 (King James Version)

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,395
2,003
113
^ by the way [ADDITION to my last post], most people, when trying to explain "the pre-trib viewpoint" they say they supposedly once held, themselves, BUTCHER IT SO BADLY, that I cannot take seriously that they ever "understood" it. ;)



[strawmen after strawmen after strawmen... on and on and on..., sad to say... strawmen that are plain as day to those who really DO "understand" it... (if only they would take as much energy to come to a CORRECT "understanding" of it... versus strawmen)]
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Of the seven types of churches of Revelation 2 & 3, during the great tribulation, the faithful type of church as in Philadelphia, is kept from the trials to come:

Revelation 3 ( New King James Version)

The Faithful Church
7 “And to the [e]angel of the church in Philadelphia write, 10 Because you have kept [g]My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

the other six types of churches of Revelation 2 & 3, during the great tribulation, receives these warning messages:

Revelation 2 ( New King James Version)

The Loveless Church
1 “To the [a]angel of the church of Ephesus write, 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.

The Persecuted Church
8 “And to the [d]angel of the church in Smyrna write, 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

The Compromising Church
12 “And to the [f]angel of the church in Pergamos write, 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, [g]which thing I hate. 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.

The Corrupt Church
18 “And to the [h]angel of the church in Thyatira write, 20 Nevertheless I have [k]a few things against you, because you allow [l]that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, [m]to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

Revelation 3 ( New King James Version)

The Dead Church
1 “And to the [a]angel of the church in Sardis write, 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before [b]God. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

The Lukewarm Church
14 “And to the [i]angel of the church [j]of the Laodiceans write, 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten.[l] Therefore be [m]zealous and repent. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
Are we not in days like the days of Noah? Looks to me as though we are.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
is Rev 20 the first " First resurrection is used ?
At the commencement of the millennium, the first resurrection (of those who died for their testimony of Christ, who will not die the second death):

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

1 Thessalonians 4 (New King James Version)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

At the conclusion of the millennium, after Gog and Magog, at the Great White Throne Judgement, the second resurrection (remainder of all the dead, of which the saved will not die the second death, and the unsaved will die the second death):

Revelation 20 (New King James Version)
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Are we not in days like the days of Noah? Looks to me as though we are.
Immediately after the tribulation, they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, let no one deceive you by any means, for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version)
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
No One Knows the Day or Hour
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of [f]heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what [g]hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what [h]hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version)
The Great Apostasy
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, let no one deceive you, that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version)

The Great Apostasy
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of [b]sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Yes.
Right away the ac is revealed and targets christians.
Right away the rapture happens at the beginning of the gt.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Matthew 24 (New King James Version)

The Great Tribulation
24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect (G1588 Strongs numbering - Greek "eklektos"). 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Strongs 1588 Greek Eklektos meaning click here:

  1. picked out, chosen
    1. chosen by God,
      1. to obtain salvation through Christ
        1. Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
      2. the Messiah is called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable
      3. choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Greek "Ekpheugo" (English "Escape, Seek safety in flight") <> Greek "Harpazo", (English "Raptured, caught up, pluck, pull by force, snatch out or away")


Greek "Ekpheugo" (English "Escape, Seek safety in flight")

Luke 21 (New King James Version)

The Importance of Watching
34 “But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with [h]carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may [i]be counted worthy to escape (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight" - This is NOT alluding to the rapture / Greek "Harpazo") all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

For Greek meaning of Ekpheugo click here:
  1. to flee out of, flee away
    1. to seek safety in flight
    2. to escape
Uses:

Luk 21:36
“Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy[fn] to escape (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight") all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Act 16:27
And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight"), drew his sword and was about to kill himself.

Act 19:16
Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered[fn] them, and prevailed against them,[fn] so that they fled (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight") out of that house naked and wounded.

Rom 2:3
And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight") the judgment of God?

2Co 11:33
but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight") from his hands.

1Th 5:3
For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight").

Heb 2:3
how shall we escape (Strongs number G1628, Greek: "Ekpheugo", English: "Flee out, escape flee, flee away, seek safety in flight") if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
Greek "Ekpheugo" (English "Escape, Seek safety in flight") <> Greek "Harpazo", (English "Raptured, caught up, pluck, pull by force, snatch out or away")

Greek "Harpazo", (English "Raptured, caught up, pluck, pull by force, snatch out or away"):

1 Thessalonians 4 (New King James Version)

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen [b]asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [c]sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [d]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away" - This is NOT alluding to the escape to seek safety in flight / Greek "Ekpheugo") together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

For meaning of Greek Harpazo click here
  1. to seize, carry off by force
  2. to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
  3. to snatch out or away
Uses:

Mat 11:12
“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away").

Mat 13:19
“When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.

Jhn 6:15
Therefore when Jesus perceived that they were about to come and take Him by force (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") to make Him king, He departed again to the mountain by Himself alone.

Jhn 10:12
“But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") the sheep and scatters them.

Jhn 10:28
“And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") them out of My hand.

Jhn 10:29
“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") them out of My Father’s hand.

Act 8:39
Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Act 23:10
Now when there arose a great dissension, the commander, fearing lest Paul might be pulled to pieces by them, commanded the soldiers to go down and take him by force (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") from among them, and bring him into the barracks.

2Co 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") to the third heaven.

2Co 12:4
how he was caught up (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1Th 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Jde 1:23
but others save with fear, pulling them out (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") of the fire,[fn] hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

Rev 12:5
She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up (Strongs number G726, Greek: "Harpazo", English: "to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away") to God and His throne.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
The new covenant of God's elect through the blood of Christ Yeshua:

Hebrews 8 (New King James Version)
A New Covenant
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Jeremiah 31 (New King James Version)
A New Covenant
31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, [h]though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

The millennium kingdom to be inherited by fellow heirs, of believing Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ, as the restored Israel (adopted and scattered ancient northern Samaria's Ephraim tribes, throughout the Gentile nations; and ancient southern Judea's Judah's tribes the Jews):

Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
The Mystery Revealed
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Romans 11 (New King James Version )
Israel’s Rejection Not Final
25For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

The anti-christ will try to deceive many (if it was possible even God's elect), and try to steal God's kingdom here on earth, but his attempt of theft will only last three-and-a-half years, before he will be destroyed by Christ Yeshua, when Christ Yeshua's millennial reign on earth starts, at the Body of Christs' post-tribulation rapture at Christ Yeshua's second coming, immediately after the great tribulation:

2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version )
The Great Apostasy
1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Matthew 24 (New King James Version )
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
The preacher, who I really liked, preached meaningless messages, he knew nothing about the Bible and he didn’t preach from the KJV and he was a believer that all bibles had mistakes.
So I became a member of a church that is affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention. In the membership packet there is reference to "The Baptist Faith & Message 2000". In this confession (even though they insist it is not) it says this about Christ, "He now dwells in all believers as the living and ever present Lord."

This is WRONG! It is the Holy Spirit that dwells in us.

It sounds like Catholicism where they claim Jesus is actually present in the bread and wine and so when you take them he then dwells in you.

I am going to ask for my membership to be terminated. What do you think?
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
The new covenant of God's elect through the blood of Christ Yeshua:

Hebrews 8 (New King James Version)
A New Covenant
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Jeremiah 31 (New King James Version)
A New Covenant
31“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, [h]though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”


The millennium kingdom to be inherited by fellow heirs, of believing Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ, as the restored Israel (adopted and scattered ancient northern Samaria's Ephraim tribes, throughout the Gentile nations; and ancient southern Judea's Judah's tribes the Jews):

Ephesians 3 (New King James Version)
The Mystery Revealed
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.


Romans 11 (New King James Version )
Israel’s Rejection Not Final
25For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”


The anti-christ will try to deceive many (if it was possible even God's elect), and try to steal God's kingdom here on earth, but his attempt of theft will only last three-and-a-half years, before he will be destroyed by Christ Yeshua, when Christ Yeshua's millennial reign on earth starts, at the Body of Christs' post-tribulation rapture at Christ Yeshua's second coming, immediately after the great tribulation:

2 Thessalonians 2 (New King James Version )
The Great Apostasy
1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.


Matthew 24 (New King James Version )
The Coming of the Son of Man
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Yes millineum and second coming
Amen.