Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

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BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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1 John 2 (New King James Version)

4He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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That's carnal thinking imposed on the text.

Meeting him in the atmosphere of the earth AND coming with him needn't be forced into separate incidents.
Paul said it all happens in the twinkling of an eye.
Don't overlook the fact that a host of angels +millions of the departed dead will be arriving with him as they receive their immortal bodies. Then the living will be changed. It's a very public happening.

Luke 21 (NASB)
27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

1 Colossians 3
4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

Romans 8
19 For the eagerly awaiting creation waits for the revealing of the sons of God

Isaiah 60
“Arise, shine; for your light has come, And the glory of the Lord has risen upon you.
2 For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the Lord will rise upon you

Loads of passages describe his return with the resurrection.
Rev 19 saints in heaven.
It is the ending of the gt.
It is the second coming with the saints.
Rev 14 is a gathering DURING the gt.

More verses is better
 

Lucy-Pevensie

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Doen’t the host get the women and the rest of her offspring wrong? Isn’t the women Israel? Not Christians? The offspring would be Christians..
I would say so. If we are talking about Rev 12. I haven't watched the film clip yet.
The woman pursued by the dragon is Israel. 'The rest of her offspring' is us.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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"Therefore Israel will be abandoned [/will he give them up] until she who is in labor has given birth; then the rest/remnant of His brothers will return [H7725] to/unto the children of Israel." Micah 5:3 (this verse not speaking of Jesus' birth way back then, like v.2 is speaking of).


[v.3a is speaking of "the woman" (of Rev12); v.3b is speaking of "the remnant [/the rest]" (that Rev12:17 also speaks of); neither of these two parts is speaking of "the Church which is His body"]
 

Lucy-Pevensie

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Rev 12
17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring – those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

For the KJV clan -it says the same thing.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Anyone with the testimony of JC is his body.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I would say so. If we are talking about Rev 12. I haven't watched the film clip yet.
The woman pursued by the dragon is Israel. 'The rest of her offspring' is us.
In Roman's Israel is grafted back in.
The great tribulation is Jacob's/ Israel's trouble.

Rev 14 is the grafting in.
The dragon is clearly the devil,the woman is israel,the man child is Jesus the offspring is Israel.
The last verse clearly points directly to the 144k
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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Rev 12
17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring – those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

For the KJV clan -it says the same thing.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Anyone with the testimony of JC is his body.
The 144k jews have that testimony
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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Rev 12
17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring – those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

For the KJV clan -it says the same thing.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Anyone with the testimony of JC is his body.
Yes, there are only Christians in Christ, whether you are of Jewish or Gentile descent. Christian Zionism erroneously separates Jews from Gentiles, contrary to scriptures (One Olive Tree in Christ of Romans 11, Jews & Gentiles being fellow heirs to the same promises of Ephesians 2&3)

http://bit.ly/Christianzionism
 
Jul 23, 2018
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I would say so. If we are talking about Rev 12. I haven't watched the film clip yet.
The woman pursued by the dragon is Israel. 'The rest of her offspring' is us.
We are naomi,grafted in.

Rev 12 is mainly God dealing with his jewish covenant people, but specifically the remnant.
(144k firstfruits,then jewish main harvest.)
Both taken to heaven for the marriage supper.

Seen in the wedding parable
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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The 144k jews have that testimony
Judah's 3 tribes (ancient southern kingdom of Judea with its capitol Jerusalem) are among the Jews.

Ephraim's 10 tribes (ancient northern kingdom of Israel with its capitol Samaria) are to this day still not gathered from among the Gentiles.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Yes, there are only Christians in Christ, whether you are of Jewish or Gentile descent. Christian Zionism erroneously separates Jews from Gentiles, contrary to scriptures (One Olive Tree in Christ of Romans 11, Jews & Gentiles being fellow heirs to the same promises of Ephesians 2&3)

http://bit.ly/Christianzionism
Naomi is not ruth and ruth is not naomi.

In fact the nearest kin of Naomi refused her because he did not want his bloodline tainted with ruth.

Ruth is key to understand church/israel dynamic.
The bride is gentile
Israel is the wayward wife (whore)

Replacement theology fails with romans,revelation and ruth factored in.
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Naomi is not ruth and ruth is not naomi.

In fact the nearest kin of Naomi refused her because he did not want his bloodline tainted with ruth.

Ruth is key to understand church/israel dynamic.
The bride is gentile
Israel is the wayward wife (whore)

Replacement theology fails with romans,revelation and ruth factored in.
All Jesus' disciples were Jewish Christians. Jew and Gentile are one in Christ, nothing was replaced, Christ is the fulfilment of God's promises to Abraham, that in him all the nations of the world (Gentiles) will be blessed. Ephraim's blessing in Genesis 48, as received from Jacob was that he will be the fulness of the nations (Gentiles).

The land promises to the offspring of Jacob will be fulfilled in Christ's millennium kingdom following his second coming.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
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Rev 12
17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring – those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

For the KJV clan -it says the same thing.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Anyone with the testimony of JC is his body.
Yep "one new man"
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
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Judah's 3 tribes (ancient southern kingdom of Judea with its capitol Jerusalem) are among the Jews.

Ephraim's 10 tribes (ancient northern kingdom of Israel with its capitol Samaria) are to this day still not gathered from among the Gentiles.
Could be
I have not ventured into it.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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We are naomi,grafted in.

Rev 12 is mainly God dealing with his jewish covenant people, but specifically the remnant.
(144k firstfruits,then jewish main harvest.)
Both taken to heaven for the marriage supper.

Seen in the wedding parable
I don't believe there is a wedding supper in heaven. It takes place on earth.
 

Lisamn

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Dec 29, 2020
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Romans 11 tells us that God isn’t done with His chosen people. He did after all chose them to be their God forever. And according to Romans 13, they’ve only experienced a partial hardening until the fullness of the gentiles has come in.

So..Israel is still in play and God will bring them back to Himself...scripture confirms it..
Zechariah 12:10
I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.​
 

Lucy-Pevensie

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Dec 20, 2017
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Romans 11 tells us that God isn’t done with His chosen people. He did after all chose them to be their God forever. And according to Romans 13, they’ve only experienced a partial hardening until the fullness of the gentiles has come in.

So..Israel is still in play and God will bring them back to Himself...scripture confirms it..
Zechariah 12:10
I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.​
Indeed, our God does not break covenant.
Deuteronomy has some of the foundational prophecies. Then the later prophets colour it in with more detail.
I adore these 66 books!

Deut 4:31

30 When you are in distress and all these things have happened to you, then in later days you will return to the Lord your God and obey him. 31 For the Lord your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your ancestors, which he confirmed to them by oath.

Deut 32

36 The Lord will vindicate his people
and relent concerning his servants
when he sees their strength is gone
and no one is left, slave or free.
37 He will say: “Now where are their gods,
the rock they took refuge in,
38 the gods who ate the fat of their sacrifices
and drank the wine of their drink offerings?
Let them rise up to help you!
Let them give you shelter!
39 “See now that I myself am he!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.

40 I lift my hand to heaven and solemnly swear:
As surely as I live forever,

41 when I sharpen my flashing sword
and my hand grasps it in judgment,
I will take vengeance on my adversaries
and repay those who hate me.
42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
while my sword devours flesh:
the blood of the slain and the captives,
the heads of the enemy leaders.”
43 Rejoice, you nations, with his people,
for he will avenge the blood of his servants;
he will take vengeance on his enemies
and make atonement for his land and people.


40 I lift my hand to heaven and solemnly swear:
As surely as I live forever,


Rev 10
5 Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land raised his right hand to heaven.
6 And he swore by him who lives for ever and ever, who created the heavens and all that is in them, the earth and all that is in it, and the sea and all that is in it, and said, ‘There will be no more delay!

1 Thess 4:16
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.