Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

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BenjaminN

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I still think it is Michael from Daniel 12:1

"At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered
How can Michael arising, be a restraint removed?

Who is currently hiding in plain sight? The man of the spirit of lawlessness which has been already at work since the time of Paul. Who will come out of the midst? The antichrist, false Jewish antimessiah rising at the sacrificial Jewish temple, will not be Messiah Christ Yeshua whom risen and alive believers will be meeting in the clouds.

2 Thessalonians 2 (ISR 1998)

7For the secret of lawlessness is already at work – only until he who now restrains comes out of the midst.
 

BenjaminN

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He is known to help out when things are being held back. ;) I'll let you guess what I am referring to.
When the the antichrist stops himself of restraining himself of coming out of the closet, he comes out of the midst. This doesn't sound like the one restraining currently, is doing us any favour whilst working his evil covertly? While still being at work on lawlessness in plain sight hiding, working lawlessness still under the covers in darkness, promoting lawlessness, and the fulfilment of the apostasy. We can not attribute the one restraining from coming out of the midst to the archangel Michael?

2 Thessalonians 2 (ISR 1998)

7For the secret of lawlessness is already at work –

only until

he (who now restrains) comes out of the midst.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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New York
When the the antichrist stops himself of restraining himself of coming out of the closet, he comes out of the midst. This doesn't sound like the one restraining currently, is doing us any favour whilst working his evil covertly? While still being at work on lawlessness in plain sight hiding, working lawlessness still under the covers in darkness, promoting lawlessness, and the fulfilment of the apostasy. We can not attribute the one restraining from coming out of the midst to the archangel Michael?

2 Thessalonians 2 (ISR 1998)

7For the secret of lawlessness is already at work –

only until

he (who now restrains) comes out of the midst.
Well since that is a passage that many people are not sure about, neither you or I may have it figured out yet.

And yet between our two theories I think that if Paul had previously told them this (as it says that he did) that he would have most likley been teaching them out of the book of Daniel about a prophecy found in the book of Daniel, don't you?

Our safest bet is to try and guess what in Daniel he had previously told them about he that withholds will withhold till he be taken out of the way. And then the Day of the Lord immediately ensuing which is marked by the sign of a man who stands in the temple declaring himself to be god. He then goes on to talk about the dead in christ rising which is also mentioned here in Daniel. There is a good chance that what he taught them about "He who letteth.. is right here in this passage and I find it in this mysterious mention of Michael arising.

The prince of Persia withstood Gabriel and then Michael helped him and this is why I think Michael does something to let the Prince of Persia.. the Assyrian.. come forth on the scene. He wants to do it now but he can't do it until Michael lets him.
It's just a theory. I could be wrong. I just think it is closer than any thing else I have heard. No offence but I am not seeing your hermeneutic at all.
1“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. 2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above;a and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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Loads of them. Repeatedly. If you don't read them it's your own fault.

How many more times do I have to post from 2 Thessalonians 1?
I've even posted it in your preferred KJV. You keep denying the the teaching of scripture.

It is spelled out for us EXACTLY WHEN the resurrection/"rapture" occurs. EXACTLY. One return.


2 Thess 1 (CSB)

5 It is clear evidence of God’s righteous judgment that you will be counted worthy of God’s kingdom, for which you also are suffering,

6 since it is just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you

7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us. This will take place at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels,

8 when he takes vengeance with flaming fire on those who don’t know God and on those who don’t obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

9 They will pay the penalty of eternal destruction from the Lord’s presence and from his glorious strength

10 on that day when he comes to be glorified by his saints and to be marveled at by all those who have believed, because our testimony among you was believed.
I have laid out the rapture verses
You just proved what I claim

As I stated, the rapture verses i bring forward are not discussed by Your side as you just confirmed.
 

Absolutely

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True, but there are Gentiles who come to Christ after the Rapture, they are the Martyrs under the Altar a the 5th Seal, even though they do not happen at the 5th Seal, the Seals are not actionable, thus they happen over the Anti-Christs 42-month reign of terror. So, we do have a Remnant Church in the 70th week, that is what we see in Rv. 12:17, that Remnant CAN NOT be Jews, it can only be the Remnant Church on earth. The phraseology tells us that. The Dragon can't get at the Woman (1/3 who repents) and the Remnant of her seed (Jesus is the seed see Gal 3) can't be the 2/3 who do not repent, because they do not have the testimony of Jesus. So, this Remnant can only be te Gentile Church ON EARTH, who come unto Christ after the Rapture.

I caught something a few months back, notice the 50 % reference in both cases, there will be 5 of 10 brides who do not make the wedding and ONE will be taken and ONE will be left in the field in Matt. 24:36-51. I think Jesus is telling us, half of those calling themselves Christians at the time of the rapture will be exposed as frauds. So, out of 2 billion people, maybe 1 Billion or so will be Raptured and the others will be very surprised.

There is no need to be Raptured at the end of the GT, Jesus is coming to earth to rule, AND those who were Martyrs and refused the Mark of the Beast will live and reign on earth for 1000 years, with Jesus. So, there is no need for a Rapture.


You will love this, the Author is unknown to me, but I have used this for years.
http://luke810.com/wedpatt.htm


It's designed to get Israel to REPENT. That is why its the 70th and last week, in wg=hich they repent. If they had turned to God 2000 some odd years ago, IMHO, Jesus would have saved them from Rome (the fourth beast) then, but He fooreknew they would not repent, of course.


The Church Age ends with the Rapture (Rev. 4:1) thus he is given power over the Saints because they missed the wedding and became true Christians only after the Rapture, AND Saints are a generic name for all Jews in the Holy bible via the Old Testament. Thus in Rev. 17 where it is said the Harlot (False Religion) Martyrs the Saints AND the Martyrs of Jesus, it means the Jewish people and the Christians. So, this identifies the Harlot as being on both sides of the cross. The Church age end before the 70th week begins.
Your theory does not take into consideration that there are carnal Christians as well as remnant bride believers.

1 cor describes that dynamic vividly.

The carnal are not the bride .
Nonetheless they Are saved.
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Well since that is a passage that many people are not sure about, neither you or I may have it figured out yet.

And yet between our two theories I think that if Paul had previously told them this (as it says that he did) that he would have most likley been teaching them out of the book of Daniel about a prophecy found in the book of Daniel, don't you?

Our safest bet is to try and guess what in Daniel he had previously told them about he that withholds will withhold till he be taken out of the way. And then the Day of the Lord immediately ensuing which is marked by the sign of a man who stands in the temple declaring himself to be god. He then goes on to talk about the dead in christ rising which is also mentioned here in Daniel. There is a good chance that what he taught them about "He who letteth.. is right here in this passage and I find it in this mysterious mention of Michael arising.

The prince of Persia withstood Gabriel and then Michael helped him and this is why I think Michael does something to let the Prince of Persia.. the Assyrian.. come forth on the scene. He wants to do it now but he can't do it until Michael lets him.
It's just a theory. I could be wrong. I just think it is closer than any thing else I have heard. No offence but I am not seeing your hermeneutic at all.
1“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. 2And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above;a and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
Yes agreed, Daniel gives the answer, the one who restraints his revealing, is the antichrist, spoken about by Daniel as the little horn (from a former Roman Empire evolved English/French/Spanish/European language speaking nation, speaking great blasphemies against God, viewing himself as Judaic and go and sit in the sacrificial temple to proclaim himself the only god to be worshipped), coming out of the ten horns (ten kingdoms that the Roman Empire was split into, including Great Britain).
 

Lucy-Pevensie

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Its how they worship...do they do the mass where they literally think they eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood when they eat the wafer and drink the wine. Is that Biblical and would that make them Christians? We who are saved are saved by the once for all sacrifice of Jesus..so believing what they believe is wrong. Then there’s the Mary worship...God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...Mary is not included in that nor did she herself think she was, she was humbled that God chose her and was blessed for it.

If a church is teaching these things as truth...can they or their offshoots be the truth? The Bible says a little leavens the whole lump of dough. Its not a good thing. They may know the name of Jesus..but they don’t know what He really means. The sad thing is they think they know the truth but they don’t..they like their traditions more than the truth.
I'm not getting into this here. There are enough Catholic-bashing threads here already. I don't think this thread needs a detour.
They will be judged by The Lord as we will- for the planks in our own eyes.
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Its how they worship...do they do the mass where they literally think they eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood when they eat the wafer and drink the wine. Is that Biblical and would that make them Christians? We who are saved are saved by the once for all sacrifice of Jesus..so believing what they believe is wrong. Then there’s the Mary worship...God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...Mary is not included in that nor did she herself think she was, she was humbled that God chose her and was blessed for it.

If a church is teaching these things as truth...can they or their offshoots be the truth? The Bible says a little leavens the whole lump of dough. Its not a good thing. They may know the name of Jesus..but they don’t know what He really means. The sad thing is they think they know the truth but they don’t..they like their traditions more than the truth.
The Catholic symbolic Body of Christ sacrament of eating the flesh of Jesus, as a reminder that we became one in His sacrifice for our sins, is an interpretation of scripture by the Catholic church, stating it in the way they interpret like that as well literally. It is a sacrament symbolic reminder representation however, it is not Christ literal body as the text states.

I do not think Catholics worship Mary, although they revere her as one of God's blessed saints.
 

TMS

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Mar 21, 2015
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Show me the meaning of mt 25 10 virgin parable.

I will wait.
This was a common practice in that time. The ten virgins were waiting for the bridegroom to come and all fell asleep because they didn't expect it to be such a late night. In shock they all got up to meet the coming bridegroom, they prepare their lamps and 5 did not prepare for such a wait. they did not anticipate so long a delay. The wiser virgins can't spare their oil so the foolish 5 need to go and buy more. The 5 wise virgins go into the hall with the bridal train and the door is shut. the unwise come to the door and are denied entry and left outside.

All were expecting Jesus to come, they all had oil, and are all virgins, and all have burning lamps.
They all profess to be believers and pure believers at that, they all have experience in Gods word. they word is a lamp unto my feet and a light to may path. Ps 119:105.
The oil is the Holy Spirit. It keep us burning.
For a time the 10 virgins looked the same. So it is today.
A time of waiting will test people and faith will be tried. But the call will come, "Behold the bridegroom cometh, Go ye out to meet Him". Many will be unready. They have no oil in their vessels. They lack the Holy Spirit at that time. A knowlegde of the truth and scripture without the Holy Spirit is useless. Without the Spirit all the wisdom and willpower, all the efforts on our part are useless. without the Spirit we can not be ready and sanctified to meet the Lord. Without the Spirit we are doomed and are an easy pray for the Devil. These foolish virgins are like the people at the end that do not know God because they are content with a superficial work, and had deep communion with God.
Eze 33:31 And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words, but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love, but their heart goeth after their covetousness.
Eze 33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The character can not be transferred to another, and the same with the Holy Spirit. We need to have our own experience.
If peace and safety is being taught (or pre trib rapture) will your faith and character hold strong, will you be prepared and have the Holy Spirit when Jesus does come?
It is in the crisis that the true character is revealed. When aroused from their slumber both groups were taken unawares, but one was prepared for the emergency.
If the pre-trib rapture does not happen will you be prepared to face the hard times, and will your faith stand strong? It is too late to prepare when the time comes.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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^

"Christ I have been crucified with [PERFECT indicative];

I live now, no longer I;

lives however in me Christ;

that which then now I live in [the] flesh,

in faith I live, that of the Son of the God,

the [One] having loved me and having given up Himself for me."

- Galatians 2:20




[... "in faith I live, THAT OF the Son of God" ^ ... i.e. HIS FAITH... the FAITH OF HIM/CHRIST; "the faith OF CHRIST" also found in Gal2:16 and Phil3:9]
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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If I were to believe in men’s books about the rapture...I would still be reading and believing Tim LaHaye’s books. Most teachers took those books...or at least the outline of them as the gospel. Those books sold a lot of copies.
1.) I didn't say all men's positions are wrong on every subject, LOL, I stated that via the Prophetic books people relied on others to fill in the blanks. The Rapture is not a prophetic type event per se. It's a pretty easy understanding tbh, thus the I see people who don't get it, a warning sign goes off in my head. It's not like the 144,000 which is actually a CODE for All Israel or the 10 horns/10 toes which is a CODE for Fractured Europe that can be 5 kingdoms or 25 kingdoms or 27 kingdoms as with England and now 26 without England.

The Rapture is as plain as day tbh. I never read the books, people don't just fly off to heaven, we die in a twinkling of an eye, change to spirit men, go to heaven, then receive our glorious bodies.

I don’t believe in the pre wrath rapture because I studied books about it. A pastor at the church I belonged too was teaching the pre trib rapture because he said that everyone wanted it..but he thought the rapture came at the end..but since people didn’t want to hear about it he didn’t teach it. Which I thought it was a shame because even though I didn’t know much except the pre trib postition..it didn’t seem right. Years later, I came across the pre wrath position and studied the Bible about it. The one part that really stops me believing it is that Jesus comes back once. You can’t have a pre trib rapture then.
For starters, you guys get way too hung up on NUMBERS like the 1st Resurrection/2nd Resurrection, and the Second Coming. So much so that truth gets lost in the shuffle. Jesus' 2nd Coming actually means his 2nd Advent on earth as the Conquering King. Jesus has been to earth more than once. We see in John 20 where Jesus tells Mary, touch me not, that 8 days later he allowed doubting Thomas to touch his wounds, meaning he went to heaven, offered the Sacrifice to God, then returned with the "GIFT of the Holy Spirit". Thus it is not really Jesus' "SECOND COMING" that's just people's imagination, it's Jesus' Second Advent. Thus you guys get all worked up about only two comings, its kinda funny that you miss the forest for the trees. Likewise, there are two Resurrections, one happens over a 7 year period at VARIED TIMES, you, nor I can limit the way God sees it, 1). = Al those in Christ. 2.) = All those not in Christ 1000 years later. God doesn't live by our mandates. The 1st Resurrection doesn't have to be by OUR RULES all at the same time, we can't limit God's minds to our ways of thinking. God see 2 the Resurrection of those in Christ/Faith and the Resurrection of the Wicked.

Just because you found a preacher who was deceived, who by the way, had no integrity because he preached what he thought was an untruth, that shouldn't factor in tbh, his testimony is no good since he was not even faithful to what he believed to start with, so why would you trust anything he said? BUT, a seed was planted in you by this ma it seems. Think about the integrity of the guy who planted the seed !! Satan works that way.

"YOU CAN'T HAVE THE PRE-TRIB WRATH THEN............What? You left off your thought.

I am going to assume you are trying to say you can't have a Pre trib Wrath then the 2nd Coming, again, THE NUMBER means nothing, its not the 2nd Coming anyway, more MEN'S TRADITIONS that CONFUSES PEOPLE, its actually more about the 2nd Advent. This only means Jesus could come 1000 times and still have a 2nd Advent on this earth. 1.) Suffering Servant 2.) Conquering King.

Mark 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21 all deal with the end times...
Matthew 24 starts out telling us its end times talk...
Matthew‬ ‭24:3‬ ‭
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”​
‭‭
God’s wrath doesn’t start at the beginning of the tribulation but the end at the opening of the 7th seal. The antichrist has already been a factor and has stopped the sacrifice of the rebuilt Jewish temple. The tests came before God’s wrath not after.
Maybe you were saying you can't have a pre trib rapture then all of these chapters end with the END TIME, which really doesn't add up. Matt. 24:1-14 is not about the END-TIMES, again that is wrong thnk on men's part. Verses 15-31 are, but the Church RETURNS with Jesus on White Horses, Rev. 19 clearly tells us that, look I can destroy any and all Rapture theories that are not Pre trib, you have no shot at winning this debate brother, because the truth is not on your side here. I have done a meticulous exegesis on the whole chapter (Matt. 24) The THREE QUESTIONS are about 1.) The Temples Destruction 1.) The Coming of Jesus 3.) The End of the World [as we know it] or as it is now.

Matthew 4-6 answers the Temple question, those verses are specifically about 70 AD. That is why Jesus says the end is BY and BY. It's not now (that time), thus Jesus is warning them, do not come back to Jerusalem, (take no heed that any man should deceive you) thinking I am come again (many will come in my name saying I am Christ/Messiah and shall deceive many) because if you come to Jerusalem, you will be killed at that time, so STAY AWAY. Its a warning about the coming 70 AD events when the Temple will be DESTROYED, Jesus tells them, you will hear of WARS and RUMORS OF WARS, its not me, its the messianic types the Pharisees will put forth to try and defeat the Romans (who they knew were the fourth beast). Jesus then says, the end will be LATE ON (by and by).

Matthew 7-14 IS NOT the 70th week tribulations, the SORROWS are not the End Time 70th week, this is how you guys go down rabbit holes tbh. Sorrows = Birthing a baby, so why would you think the Baby (70th week) is amidst the sorrows? The Baby comes AFTER the sorrows have passed !! Birth Pangs birth the 70th week, so Jesus is telling us all the SIGNS that lead up to the 70th week. The verses 7-14 have NOTHING to do with the 70th week. This is why people just don't get scriptures, you can be off by 0.1 degrees and be WAY OFF on the facts. Nation will rise against nation etc. etc. means the Church Age will have many, many wars until the 70th week is birthed. During this "BIRTHING of the 70th week" or Church Age period, there will be pestilence (Black Death/Plagues, COVID-19), there will be Famine and Earthquakes. The word used for Nation is ethnos, so it actually means race vs. race and kingdom vs. kingdom. These are the BEGINNING of Sorrows or the Birth Pangs (NOT THE BABY, the baby comes later).

This is so easy, Jesus then tells "THE DISCIPLES" in verse 9 about their coming deaths, but you guys think this is the 70th week, even though the BIRTH PANGS deliver the baby. (I still don't get the thinking AT ALL, it's pure deception brother). So, in verse 9 Jesus forewarned his disciples they will be killed/delivered up, and in a roundabout way, if one is keen, we can see he warns them to ENDURE UNTIL THE END [of one's life]. Yet you guys think Jesus means this is the 70th week END TIME, because you misunderstand a single verse, taking it out of context !!

Many shall be OFFENDED and BETRAY one another (Jesus is warning them not to betray each other nor him). in he says there will be many false prophets who arise and deceive many. This is Jesus saying these worshipers of false gods are going to kill you unless you pay homage unto their gods !! DON'T DO IT !! Endure until the end, pay with your life, do not betray me. By forwarning the disciples, he made it easier for them to overcome what they eventually had to endure, with faith. He tells them many men's love will wax cold (that is why they will kill you in other words). But you must ENDURE UNTIL THEN END [of your life]. Then when the Gospel is preached unto the ends of the world, the END (70th week) will come or BE BIRTHED (the baby is born).

Then we see the 70th week in verses 15-31.

I will reanswer one portion, this may be getting past the 10,000 word limit.
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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God’s wrath doesn’t start at the beginning of the tribulation but the end at the opening of the 7th seal. The antichrist has already been a factor and has stopped the sacrifice of the rebuilt Jewish temple. The tests came before God’s wrath not after.
I agree the 7th Seal brings God's Wrath via the 7 Trumps. But that does not happen at the END of the tribulation, it happens in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, at the 1260 event. The Anti-Christ does not STOP THE SACRIFICE and place the AoD, the False Prophet does. It's a misconception you share with 99 percent of the Church, lol, so I am on an island here, but I am 100 percent correct, because the Holy Spirit, by me REREADING all these prophetic chapters with an open mind, asking God, what does this mean Lord? has shown me what the 1335, 1290 and 1260 actually mean. The 1290 stopping of the Sacrifice actually comes 30 days BEFORE the Wrath of God, but I still don't think you get why, brother.

Look at Daniel 12:6, the Angel Gabriel asks the Man in Linen (Jesus) HOW LONG it will be until ALL THESE WONDERS END? And then in verse 7 Jesus emphatically swears, that it will be 1260 days, from the time the holy peoples are conquered, until ALL THESE WONDERS END !! (Or until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ ends all these wonders Daniel was seeing).

Now is where so many people run off the tracks, they have no clue (nor did I) what the 1290 or the 1335 means, some think it extends into the New Millennium, to tell you the truth, I have seen all type of wild speculation what it means, I was just as stupefied, then when I asked the holy spirit, what does this mean Lord. It was like, I made this so simple, yet so complex, it was hidden until the very end times. He says, Ron, look at verse 8, what does Daniel ask the Man in Linen (Jesus) there? So I looked, and its the EXACT SAME QUESTION that Gabriel asked Jesus in verse 6 (LOL). So why would the answer be any different?

Gabriel's question AND Daniel's question

Daniel 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

It's the SAME QUESTION, so why would the answer be any different? BOTH ANSWERS tell us how long it will be until Jesus ENDS ALL THESE WONDERS (via what we know is the Second Coming or 2nd Advent) by showing up and TAKING OVER. So, if the first number, which is the 1260 event or the conquering of the Holy Peoples is 1260 days from that event (Jerusalem is conquered by the coming Anti-Christ) then the other two numbers are (SIMPLE LOGIC, God is laughing) likewise a SET NUMBER OF DAYS, from two different events, until ALL THESE WONDERS END !! All we have to do is figure out what these events are. Thus the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem at the 1260 (Middle of the week) event, and he only rules for 1260 days by God's own DECREE, thus anything that happens before this, CAN NOT be the Anti-Christs doings !!

So, who is it that TAKES AWAY the Sacrifice and places the AoD in the Temple, 30 days BEFORE the 1260? After all, the 1290 is 1290 days until the Second Coming and the 1335 is 1335 days until the Second Coming also ends all these wonders. Jesus stated in Matt. 24:15-17, that the Jews who see the AoD should FLEE Judea, and not look back. Well, since we now know this actually happens 30 days BEFORE the Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem, the urgency makes actual sense now. I used to think, like most I guess, the AoD was the Anti-Christ, and I often wondered, why Jesus/God would give the Jews a SIGN as they were being CONQUERED, that just never made any sense at all.......BUT NOW........That I knew the 1290 was 30 days BEFORE the 1260 it made perfect sense, the Jews who repented (that is the 1335, LOL, going in order of how the Holy Spirit showed me these things) had 30 days to get out of Dodge before the Anti-Christ was allowed to GO FORTH Conquering !! So the question of who places the AoD is solved, it's the False Prophet, and we should have put this together by reading Rev. 13 it clearly says the False Prophet makes an IMAGE of the Beast and demands that all men worship the IMAGE of the Beast or die !! Jesus says in Matthew 24, that which STANDS where it OUGHT NOT, so it's a graven image of a man. So, why wasn't the 1290 event more clear about who it was? I can answer that later. We have to figure out how the Jews knew to Flee Judea since they do not read the New Testament/Matt. 24 etc. the Gospels. So, I started wondering, can this be right? I tested it.

I found that the Jews actually do REPENT just BEFORE the coming Day of the Lord and the bible tells us this.

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So, the Two-witnesses show up BEFORE the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord (God's Wrath that starts at the 1260) and they get Israel to REPENT which fulfills the Dan. 9:24-27 prophecy that Israel HAS TO REPENT before the 70th week can come to pass.

Zechariah 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

So, we see here that 1/3 of the Jews REPENT, which is why 144,000 actually means ALL Israel, not 144,000 Jews who Flee Judea, its a CODED NUMBER, as in 12 = fullness and 10 = completeness thus 12 (Fulness) x 12 x 10 (Completeness) x 10 x 10 = 144,000 or if you read between the lines, ALL Israel, or the 1/3 who REPENT, thus 1/3 of all the Jews in Israel now = 2 Million people, and worldwide would equal 5 million. Thus the 1/3 who REPENT do so, but when? Well, the very next verse just so happens to tell us, LOL.

Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

So, we see that the 1/3 REPENT just BEFORE the coming DOTL, just like Malachi 4:5-6 tells us they do, because the Two-witnesses are sent back to get them to repent, that is their job. So now when you read Rev. 11, and you see John MEASURING the Temple AND THEM that Worship therein (Jews) you know what the Two-witnesses parameters are, they are called to get the Jews to REPENT, but they are told NOT TO MEASURE, the Outer Courts (the Gentiles were allowed in the Outer Court (Wailing wall) but not in the Temple, thus we are given the two Witnesses objective in Rev. 11, but most don't see it.

CONTINUED
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
395
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CONTINUED

Now we can understand how the Jews know to Flee Judea, the Two-witnesses told them BEFORE TIME, and they read Matt. 24:15-17 thus they knew to Flee Judea, because they had REPENTED by that time !! Like Zechariah 13:8-9 says and like Malachi says they do. So, do you see what the 1335 BLESSING is by now? It's the Two-witnesses, they show up 1335 days BEFORE ALL THESE WONDERS ARE ENDED by the Second Coming of Jesus. Daniel asked the EXACT SAME QUESTION that Gabriel asked Jesus, thus it's the exact same symmetry in each case. Now, how do I know what the False Prophet is, or do I know? Yes, via my studies on Daniel 11, where I was doing an Exegesis of the whole chapter, naming every king, and how they came to power etc.,etc. I ran across a Jewish High Priest named Jason (real name Yeshua Greek name Jason) who bribed Antiochus to be named the High Priest, thereby having his own brother, a Pious High Priest killed, his name was Onias III. Jason then tried to Hellenize the Jews (get them to worship the Greek gods, to follow the Greek (WORLDLY) cultures, to offer profane sacrifices to Zeus in the Temple etc., which led to the Maccabean Revolt. Thus this DYNAMIC DUO was the TYPE Anti-Christ AND False Prophet, and no one sees it, because they miss Jason. So, why didn't Daniel tell us about a coming False Prophet or Jason? Well, John did so, but in 90ish AD Jerusalem had been sacked by that time thus he could do so, Daniel was not given the False Prophet angle for one reason if he had been told of a coming High Priest False Prophet, the Jewish leaders would have killed every other High Priest for the next 500 or so years thinking, THIS IS THE ONE, (like King Herod tried to kill Baby Jesus) thus Daniel was given it in only this manner below:

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

The False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) STOPS Jesus Worship in the Temple by the 1/3 who REPENT, then SETS UP the IMAGE of this Anti-Christ in the Temple (like Rev. 13 says). Now think, WHY would Jesus (Man in Linen) and Gabriel be speaking about a PROFANE end time Meat Sacrifice? It really makes NO SENSE !! It's not a Meat Sacrifice, THE SACRIFICE that this False Prophet TAKES AWAY is THE SACRIFICE, Jesus Christ !! Thus the Temple is defiled, someone explain to me how taking away a DEFILED MEAT SACRIFICE (LOL) can defile the Temple? The answer, it cant !! The sacrifice that is FORBIDDEN is this False Prophet telling the 1/3 of the Jews who have started coming unto the Temple of God to Worship Jesus, HEY, you can't worship Jesus here, then he antagonizes them by placing an IMAGE of the European President in the Temple of God. This is when the Jews understand, we need to FLEE to the Mountains of the Petra/Bozrah area NOW !!

Another TEST that fits is does the timing fit? Yes, the Two-witnesses DIE before the Beast DIES. They die at the 2nd Woe, he dies at the 7th Vial (IMHO, this is the only reason they die, its to give us a TIMELINE we can understand via juxtaposing their deaths against his) thus if both have 1260 day ordained offices on earth, and one DIES FIRST, then one has to also SHOW UP FIRST, thus one is the 1335 and one is the 1260, PRESTO, it fits.

So, the 1290 IS NOT the Anti-Christ nor can it be. The Anti-Christ goes forth conquering at the 1260, which is the Wrath of God or day of the Lord. It starts with the Trumpet judgments. The Anti-Christ uses this chaos to cover his tracks, while the rest of the world is trying to help out, he goes forth conquering Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region to become the 7th Head of the 7 Headed Beast. Both the Wrath of God and the Anti-Christs tenure as the Beast start at the 1260 event.
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
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No. Divine providence is keeping those who are still alive at His coming, through the hardships coming over the earth in the last days, when the sun finally is darkened and the moon turns into blood. After that, the rapture is Christ Yeshua's gathering of His bride, of those resurrected dead and transfigured alive. He is collecting them in the clouds, before He immediately thereafter mounts down on earth, with the saints and the armies of heaven, to conquer this earth for the start of His Millennial Kingdom.

With His collective army He captures this earth, from the collective of all the remaining unbelievers, who were left behind in the immediate preceding rapture. Those who are still at that moment alive in unbelief, on earth, will then be conquered by Christ Yeshua, commencing His Millennial Kingdom.
He doesn’t keep everyone alive though..there are those to be martyred.

Also why do you call Jesus Yeshua?
 

Lisamn

Active member
Dec 29, 2020
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The Catholic symbolic Body of Christ sacrament of eating the flesh of Jesus, as a reminder that we became one in His sacrifice for our sins, is an interpretation of scripture by the Catholic church, stating it in the way they interpret like that as well literally. It is a sacrament symbolic reminder representation however, it is not Christ literal body as the text states.

I do not think Catholics worship Mary, although they revere her as one of God's blessed saints.
Catholics do think they are literally eating the body of Christ and drinking His blood...which is pretty gross. However..they are indoctrinated since birth and I guess see nothing wrong with cannibalism...because that’s the correct interpretation of what they are doing if that’s what they really think about it.

The catholics worship Mary...they think she is co-redemptix with Jesus. They have all those statues of her that they bow down to. They pray to her thinking that she answers prayer...that’s worship. Even though again they are indoctrinated to believe that it isn’t.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
1,558
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The Pre-trib rapture is a second chance doctrine, from what i am reading, If you miss the first chance you get another one.
From the bible i understand that probation closes (and that's the end, no more grace, no more chances), and then Jesus returns to gather His children which are dead (Sleeping) or alive.

the time of trouble
the close of probation
the coming of Jesus and resurrection of the saved.
the 1000 years - Satan bond.
the Second resurrection - Satan loosed, freed.
the return of the Holy city to earth and judgement given to the lost (eternal Death).
death and evil gone forever.
the recreation of the Earth.
Eternity begins without sin and pain.

once probation closes your case is decided. no second chance.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,476
6,137
113
The Pre-trib rapture is a second chance doctrine...
That is simply absurd. Do you even know the biblical purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture?
 

ewq1938

Active member
Oct 18, 2018
658
171
43
The Pre-trib rapture is a second chance doctrine, from what i am reading, If you miss the first chance you get another one.
From the bible i understand that probation closes (and that's the end, no more grace, no more chances), and then Jesus returns to gather His children which are dead (Sleeping) or alive.

the time of trouble
the close of probation
the coming of Jesus and resurrection of the saved.
the 1000 years - Satan bond.
the Second resurrection - Satan loosed, freed.
the return of the Holy city to earth and judgement given to the lost (eternal Death).
death and evil gone forever.
the recreation of the Earth.
Eternity begins without sin and pain.

once probation closes your case is decided. no second chance.
Some of that isn't in proper order.

the time of trouble
the close of probation
the coming of Jesus and resurrection of the saved.
the 1000 years - Satan bound.
-Satan loosed, freed, then shortly is cast into fire
the Second resurrection
judgement given to the lost (eternal Death).
death and evil gone forever.
the recreation of the Earth.
the return of the Holy city to earth
Eternity begins without sin and pain.