Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

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Lisamn

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Well, then you disagree with Jesus who stated in Matt. 24:14 that THEN THE END WILL COME (70th week). And we see in the 70th week that the Angel preaches the Gospel, AND the Two-witnesses testify, AND the Saints are Martyred, yu disagree because it proves the Church is not in the earth at that time, and your understanding is ALL IMPORTANT, like all of us men, we tend to have that spirit of competitiveness. I was the same way until about 5 years ago when I prayed to God, "Father, why was I called to Prophecy/Preaching, and for 30 years now I still see the same thing, 100s of different understandings of Babylon, the 144,000, the Harlot, the Rapture, the Seven-Headed Beast etc. etc., why are we not all seeing the SAME TRUTH, because there is only ONE TRUTH Lord? And I got this, "You guys already know everything Ron." !! I knew then what the problem was, we as young Christians see these boos of Daniel, Revelation, Ezekiel etc. as being over our heads, so we read other MENS BOOKS, and we cling thus to Men's Traditions, and we never simply ASK God like we did whilst reading the Gospels, where we got instant answers from God (LOL). So, I forgot all ad reread all of those books, and simply asked God to show me, and He did, of course, the Holy Spirit leads us unto all truth, not other men. The Pharisees had the same problem, Jesus told them as much, that they could not see him in the scriptures, because they relied on Men's Traditions, and not the word of God, which wrote about him.

Mark 13, as I pointed out, is about the Disciples coming deaths, it is not about the 70th week. Matt. 24:1-14 has nothing to do with the 70th week either, that is another misconception. Verses 4-6 are about 70 AD and verses 7-14 are about the Church Age.

Most people will make their decisions before the Wrath starts, but the Anti-Christ GOES FORTH Conquering on the exact same day that Gods Wrath starts, he uses the chaos as a cloak to hide his intentions, while the world is dealing with the Rev. 8 asteroid strike (God's Wrath) he Conquers Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region (THE MANY), he doesn't just Conquer Israel, we can see who all he conquers in Dan. 11:40-43, and we can also see that he is not allowed to conquer Moab, Ammon, and Edom, or Central and Southern Jordan (Think the Petra & Bozrah area where the Jews flee unto). So, the real tests only come AFTER God's Wrath has started. The TIMING of these things is very important and hard to understand tbh.

God Bless.
If I were to believe in men’s books about the rapture...I would still be reading and believing Tim LaHaye’s books. Most teachers took those books...or at least the outline of them as the gospel. Those books sold a lot of copies.

I don’t believe in the pre wrath rapture because I studied books about it. A pastor at the church I belonged too was teaching the pre trib rapture because he said that everyone wanted it..but he thought the rapture came at the end..but since people didn’t want to hear about it he didn’t teach it. Which I thought it was a shame because even though I didn’t know much except the pre trib postition..it didn’t seem right. Years later, I came across the pre wrath position and studied the Bible about it. The one part that really stops me believing it is that Jesus comes back once. You can’t have a pre trib rapture then.

Mark 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21 all deal with the end times...
Matthew 24 starts out telling us its end times talk...
Matthew‬ ‭24:3‬ ‭
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”​
‭‭
God’s wrath doesn’t start at the beginning of the tribulation but the end at the opening of the 7th seal. The antichrist has already been a factor and has stopped the sacrifice of the rebuilt Jewish temple. The tests came before God’s wrath not after.
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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Sorry about that. I was commenting on something BenjaminN said.
It seemed kinda odd tbh.

As to your interpretation of the change, it is a foundational doctrine of Christianity that we shall not all die.
It doesn't say that brother, it says we shall not all SLEEP.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

To be CHANGED = dying, but not resting in the grave like the others did, in other words, we are CHANGED to Spirit men then go straight to Heaven, whereas the Dead in Christ SLEPT until Jesus called us home. Verse 50 tells us flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. Why do you think it states the Dead are raised incorruptible? It means they have no flesh, thus we have to SHED our corruption, which is our flesh, which is stained with sin, so much so Mary merely touching Jesuswoulld have defiled the offering.

Those that are asleep in Christ will rise first means those that have died. But we shall not all sleep. Those that are alive when Christ comes will be changed in a moment and not die. Corruptible (flesh that can age, die and rot) will be changed into glorified resurrected body like the resurrected bodies of those who rise from the grave in a glorified body like Christs. Anyone can read 1 Cor 15, and 1 Thess 4.
I suggest you reread the passages again. We gain our glorious bodies in Heaven. The KJV is hard for some people to grasp. When it tells you the DEAD are raised incorruptible, it is referring unto them being raised as Spirit Men, we gain glorious bodies, but the Spirit Man is the HEAVENLY LIKENESS, our bodies look exactly like ur spirit man, it is not a must we have a body, God is a Spirit. But for some reason we have a body on earth and will gain one in Heaven, BUT, if you read these verses, you will see the Spirit Man is the heavenly version of us.

1 Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

We go to be with the Lord as Spirit men brother. We will be given a new body in Heaven but only after we are each judged first.

We know this because Matthew shows two women clinging to his feet. He tells them to go tell his disciples to meet him in Galilee. When we compare with John we are able to understand that one of them left but Mary kept clinging to him and he had to tell her that to stop because he she was going to have a different relationship with Him from now on. He was going to the Father to send the Holy Spirit and He would make His abode with her in her heart. This was what he meant.
No, no, no, Mary didn't even realize who Jesus was until he spoke to her.

John 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her. 19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

8 days later Jesus allowed doubting Thomas to touch his wounds. So, the Second Coming is a misnomer, it really means the Second Advent of Jesus Christ, 1.) The Suffering Servant 2.) The Conquering King.

I don't like to call people false prophets or false teachers either but not all sleeping but being changed in the twinkling of an eye means the believers that are alive at His coming will not die but receive glorified bodies instantly without dying. They go from corruptible to incorruptible which is talking about the body. Now this is not up for debate so I won't debate it with you. I will however say that because of your stand on this I can't take anything else you say seriously. All your other opinions of scripture is suspect. Twisting this scripture means that you have the boldness to twist any scripture to make it mean something else than what it says.
You do not understand the passage brother, you need to restudy this. I am not going to say you are teaching falsely, because I understand we all see darkly at the present moment. I have erred before many times Jesus spends our whole lifetime bringing us from deception, to truth. No worries on that, I was just pointing out, that some people might get upset with that tag being thrown around, and our job 1 is to not turn people away from Christ, as Paul said I will be all things to all people to win souls. I knew a friend, who was a druggie, became a Christian, and because his church felt he should sing one song a week, he got discouraged, turned back to drugs, died of an OD. People in Church jealous of a position makes no sense to me, our job 1 is to encourage young Christians in the faith, not discourage them.

We all have the same mission still. To Go into all the world to preach the Gospel to every creature. It will not be over until we are raptured. Winning Souls and planting churches is still our mission. If you vacate that mission and just wait for the appearing you will be ashamed at his appearing. If you are not actively engaged in that mission you will suffer loss at the Bema Seat of Christ.

This too is not up for debate, I just felt the need to say something.

We should quit being so passionate about our faulty eschatological theories that might be wrong and get passionate about the Great Commission which is not over till it's over.
When the Holy Spirit shows me His truths, I don't change. There will be a Pre Trib Rapture, and its not that hard to understand tbh. All the facts are the facts brother. Sorry about not replying sooner. I got very sick yesterday. One of those turn the computer off and watch Perry Mason very low as a speed all day type sicknesses, splitting headache, sour stomach.

By the way, end times is my forte. So, understanding the Rapture was a must for me, I was called unto end-time prophecy.

God Bless
 

Rondonmon

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May 13, 2016
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I didn’t call you a false teacher...just that what you were talking about was a false teaching.
It doesn't bother me per se. It's like calling Micheal Jordan out for missing a free throw. He wouldn't sweat it, neither do I, but I was just pointing out tags don't really further these discussions brother.
When the 5 foolish went out they took their lamps..they just didn’t take enough oil? Their lamps were lit but went out. And they are all called the 10 virgins...

What does that have to do with the 10 virgins...not everyone who says they’re Christians are Christians.
It means they were Christians who lost their way. Paul warned us that we have to run the FULL RACE to the very end. Jesus warned his disciples in Matt. 24:13 that they would have to ENDURE TIL THE END. Jesus told us a man of God who loses his way, has 7 Demons that return, and thus the strongman is stronger than he was the first time. Christians are signified as virgins, Christians with no oil in their lamp are considered as Christians who lost their way, IMHO, or as people who called themselves Christians but never really were. I see 1/2 of the 2 billion on earth calling themselves Christians as not being of Jesus. It's just a way for Jesus to describe the standing of the Church when he calls the Bride home.
 

Lisamn

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It doesn't bother me per se. It's like calling Micheal Jordan out for missing a free throw. He wouldn't sweat it, neither do I, but I was just pointing out tags don't really further these discussions brother.

It means they were Christians who lost their way. Paul warned us that we have to run the FULL RACE to the very end. Jesus warned his disciples in Matt. 24:13 that they would have to ENDURE TIL THE END. Jesus told us a man of God who loses his way, has 7 Demons that return, and thus the strongman is stronger than he was the first time. Christians are signified as virgins, Christians with no oil in their lamp are considered as Christians who lost their way, IMHO, or as people who called themselves Christians but never really were. I see 1/2 of the 2 billion on earth calling themselves Christians as not being of Jesus. It's just a way for Jesus to describe the standing of the Church when he calls the Bride home.
I don‘t see them as Christians who never really were. The Spirit tells us in the last days that some will fall away from the faith. That means they had faith to begin with.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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I don‘t see them as Christians who never really were. The Spirit tells us in the last days that some will fall away from the faith. That means they had faith to begin with.
... it says, "...some shall depart from THE faith"... and "THE faith" is "that body of truth" (what we call the NT: that which was written/recorded following His death/burial/resurrection/ascension/exaltation).

As I see it, ppl don't necessarily have to have been "saved" persons to do such a thing ("depart from THE faith" / "that body of truth").
 
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If I were to believe in men’s books about the rapture...I would still be reading and believing Tim LaHaye’s books. Most teachers took those books...or at least the outline of them as the gospel. Those books sold a lot of copies.

I don’t believe in the pre wrath rapture because I studied books about it. A pastor at the church I belonged too was teaching the pre trib rapture because he said that everyone wanted it..but he thought the rapture came at the end..but since people didn’t want to hear about it he didn’t teach it. Which I thought it was a shame because even though I didn’t know much except the pre trib postition..it didn’t seem right. Years later, I came across the pre wrath position and studied the Bible about it. The one part that really stops me believing it is that Jesus comes back once. You can’t have a pre trib rapture then.

Mark 13, Matthew 24 and Luke 21 all deal with the end times...
Matthew 24 starts out telling us its end times talk...
Matthew‬ ‭24:3‬ ‭
As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”​
‭‭
God’s wrath doesn’t start at the beginning of the tribulation but the end at the opening of the 7th seal. The antichrist has already been a factor and has stopped the sacrifice of the rebuilt Jewish temple. The tests came before God’s wrath not after.
A verse I see quoted often for why those who hold a pre-tribulation view of the rapture is that they are not appointed to wrath.

A verse often quoted is 1 Thessalonians 5:9:
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ"

But this verse is not talking about deliverance from catastrophes on the Earth during the great tribulation. It is talking about salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, the wrath we are spared from will be the absolute terror experienced by the unrighteous at the Great White Throne Judgement where sentences of eternal damnation are dished out.

That is undoubtedly God's wrath and yes God promises that those in Christ are not appointed to it.

One may say the Bowls that are poured out in Revelation are God's wrath. This is also true, but they aren't poured out for God's people.

The Bible does say there will be people who are Christians martyred during the great tribulation by beheadings. A popular pre-trib response to that is those are people who convert to Christianity during the GT. That would work if Christ came back numerous times for separate phases of rapture, but there's no mention of numerous returns of Christ.

A common response to that is that the instance of the angels reaping the wheat and tares and the instance of being caught up in the air are two different things but both are associated with the return of Christ which, again, only happens once and that's after the great tribulation.

There are numerous other talking points I've seen, but I'm 100% sure that the rapture is definitely post-trib after examining the scriptures for so long.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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1 Timothy 4 (commentary excerpt by Gaebelein):

"Then as to himself [Timothy] and his service, till Paul came, he was to give himself to reading, which of course must mean the Holy Scriptures, to exhortation and to teaching. He was not to neglect the gift that had been bestowed upon him. In his case this gift was a direct bestowal of prophecy, the voice of the Spirit making it known (as in Acts 13:1). The laying on of hands by the elders had not communicated the gift. It was the outward expression of fellowship with the gift imparted unto Timothy. This gift had to be used and developed like every other gift of the Spirit. A gift may be idle and neglected, but if rightly used it will grow and be used in blessing. To do all this and meditate in these things, be whole-hearted in them, progressing constantly in godliness, is a safeguard against all error. “Take heed to thyself and the doctrine; continue in them; for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself and them that hear thee.” Some have perverted this instruction as if it meant the salvation of the soul, for eternal salvation. It has nothing to do with eternal life and salvation. This the believer has in Christ through grace. “Save” has here the same meaning as in Philippians, a present salvation from the dangers in the way, being saved from error."
 

TheDivineWatermark

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A verse I see quoted often for why those who hold a pre-tribulation view of the rapture is that they are not appointed to wrath.

A verse often quoted is 1 Thessalonians 5:9:
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ"

But this verse is not talking about deliverance from catastrophes on the Earth during the great tribulation. It is talking about salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
No.

Paul, in the two Thessalonians epistles, is mostly covering the Subject of an "eschatalogical salvation"


["the One delivering us out-from THE WRATH COMING" 1Th1:10, etc (the "us" here speaking specifically to/for/about "the Church which is His body" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]); 1Th5:8 "[having put on]... and for an helmet, 'the hope of salvation'" (<--a reference to "our Rapture" event)]
 
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Lisamn

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... it says, "...some shall depart from THE faith"... and "THE faith" is "that body of truth" (what we call the NT: that which was written/recorded following His death/burial/resurrection/ascension/exaltation).

As I see it, ppl don't necessarily have to have been "saved" persons to do such a thing ("depart from THE faith" / "that body of truth").
The only persons who have faith are the ones that believed on Jesus.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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One may say the Bowls that are poured out in Revelation are God's wrath. This is also true, but they aren't poured out for God's people.
Rev15:1 says (of the 7 Vials/Bowls), "the seven LAST plagues," and "for IN THEM the wrath of God IS COMPLETED [G5055]" (not "is STARTED and completed" ;) ).

See this same word [/idea], G5055, expressed in Rev10:7 - Revelation 10:7 Greek Text Analysis (biblehub.com) [at the 7th Trumpet moment--this does NOT mean "the mystery of God" was STARTED AND COMPLETED [G5055] in this 7th Trumpet moment ;) ]
 

Lisamn

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A verse I see quoted often for why those who hold a pre-tribulation view of the rapture is that they are not appointed to wrath.

A verse often quoted is 1 Thessalonians 5:9:
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ"

But this verse is not talking about deliverance from catastrophes on the Earth during the great tribulation. It is talking about salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. In other words, the wrath we are spared from will be the absolute terror experienced by the unrighteous at the Great White Throne Judgement where sentences of eternal damnation are dished out.

That is undoubtedly God's wrath and yes God promises that those in Christ are not appointed to it.

One may say the Bowls that are poured out in Revelation are God's wrath. This is also true, but they aren't poured out for God's people.

The Bible does say there will be people who are Christians martyred during the great tribulation by beheadings. A popular pre-trib response to that is those are people who convert to Christianity during the GT. That would work if Christ came back numerous times for separate phases of rapture, but there's no mention of numerous returns of Christ.

A common response to that is that the instance of the angels reaping the wheat and tares and the instance of being caught up in the air are two different things but both are associated with the return of Christ which, again, only happens once and that's after the great tribulation.

There are numerous other talking points I've seen, but I'm 100% sure that the rapture is definitely post-trib after examining the scriptures for so long.
I’m pre wrath and I have thought that we aren’t destined to wrath..that’s why there is a rapture, don’t ya think?

Ya...I think that’s people‘s fears/fantasy about tribulation talking...I won’t be here but God will have someone else experience that. I still am unsure how if one reads the Bible they can come to that conclusion.

Post trib...after the wrath of God?
 
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No.

Paul, in the two Thessalonians epistles, is mostly covering the Subject of an "eschatalogical salvation"


["the One delivering us out-from THE WRATH COMING" 1Th1:10, etc (the "us" here speaking specifically to/for/about "the Church which is His body" [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]); 1Th5:8 "[having put on]... and for an helmet, 'the hope of salvation'" (<--a reference to "our Rapture" event)]
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 is about the unrighteous being appointed to wrath and the righteous being spared from wrath in the context of Jesus' returns.

It's the same theme we see in the rest of scripture at Christ's return.

Look at the story of the Sheep and Goats at Christ's return in Matthew 25:31-46.

Look at the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13:36-42.

All of the stories about the return of Christ involve punishing the wicked and saving the righteous.

After the rapture is the judgement. Post tribulation is the only neat way to make the scriptures mesh.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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The only persons who have faith are the ones that believed on Jesus.
The text is not speaking of personal "faith" (i.e. "belief/trust")... It is speaking of "THE faith" ("that body of truth" i.e. the Word of God / the Bible-NT epistles / what was recorded following His death/burial/resurrection/ascension/exaltation--"the faith once delivered unto the saints" [not personal faith/belief--"her faith/his faith/their faith"])
 
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I’m pre wrath and I have thought that we aren’t destined to wrath..that’s why there is a rapture, don’t ya think?

Ya...I think that’s people‘s fears/fantasy about tribulation talking...I won’t be here but God will have someone else experience that. I still am unsure how if one reads the Bible they can come to that conclusion.

Post trib...after the wrath of God?
Yes, the rapture is when Christ returns. Right? Wouldn't that leave the only remaining wrath to be spared from is hell at the judgement?
 

TheDivineWatermark

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1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 is about the unrighteous being appointed to wrath and the righteous being spared from wrath in the context of Jesus' returns.
It's the same theme we see in the rest of scripture at Christ's return.
Look at the story of the Sheep and Goats at Christ's return in Matthew 25:31-46.
Look at the parable of the weeds in Matthew 13:36-42.
NONE of those ^ passages (I've bolded ^ ) are speaking of "our Rapture" CONTEXT.

His "RETURN" (see the TWO mentions of "RETURN" re: Him--Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN"; and Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and its parallel in Matt24] "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]... which is referring to when He will RETURN to the earth as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom, not TO BE WED ;) ... this is speaking of His "RETURN" to the earth at Rev19... NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event)
All of the stories about the return of Christ involve punishing the wicked and saving the righteous.
True; but none of those "righteous" (in those contexts) ever "lift off the earth," but are present on the earth upon His "RETURN" there
After the rapture is the judgement. Post tribulation is the only neat way to make the scriptures mesh.
... judgments unfolding upon the earth over the course of some time (the "DARK/DARKNESS/IN THE NIGHT" time-period with its "man of sin" IN HIS TIME). Not merely a split-second of judgment, nor merely of "a singular 24-hr day" of judgment. ;)

["judgments-followed-by-blessings" (i.e. the earthly Trib yrs followed by the earthly MK age)--Our Rapture PRECEDES all this]
 

Lisamn

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The text is not speaking of personal "faith" (i.e. "belief/trust")... It is speaking of "THE faith" ("that body of truth" i.e. the Word of God / the Bible-NT epistles / what was recorded following His death/burial/resurrection/ascension/exaltation--"the faith once delivered unto the saints" [not personal faith/belief--"her faith/his faith/their faith"])
Its speaking of Christians who once had faith...why the Spirit is involved and says explicitly..no ifs ands or buts that this will happen.

Yes, the rapture is when Christ returns. Right? Wouldn't that leave the only remaining wrath to be spared from is hell at the judgement?
God has His wrath in the tribulation period. The only problem with pre wrath is that if Jesus only comes once..then how could we not be here for the wrath of God in the trib..yet I don’t think we are here for the wrath of God in the trib either...because we are not destined for wrath.

Revelation‬ ‭16:1‬ ‭
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.​
‭‭
 
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NONE of those ^ passages (I've bolded ^ ) are speaking of "our Rapture" CONTEXT.

His "RETURN" (see the TWO mentions of "RETURN" re: Him--Lk19:12,15,17,19 "RETURN"; and Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44 [and its parallel in Matt24] "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding"... THEN the meal [G347]... which is referring to when He will RETURN to the earth as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom, not TO BE WED ;) ... this is speaking of His "RETURN" to the earth at Rev19... NOT "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" event)


True; but none of those "righteous" (in those contexts) ever "lift off the earth," but are present on the earth upon His "RETURN" there


... judgments unfolding upon the earth over the course of some time (the "DARK/DARKNESS/IN THE NIGHT" time-period with its "man of sin" IN HIS TIME). Not merely a split-second of judgment, nor merely of "a singular 24-hr day" of judgment. ;)

["judgments-followed-by-blessings" (i.e. the earthly Trib yrs followed by the earthly MK age)]
Those verses don't need to say they are listed off the ground because other verses already explain that when Christ returns that people are caught up. Other verses say they are gathered by angels.

You know very well that we have to take multiple scriptures into account to form all components of a doctrine.
 
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Its speaking of Christians who once had faith...why the Spirit is involved and says explicitly..no ifs ands or buts that this will happen.


God has His wrath in the tribulation period. The only problem with pre wrath is that if Jesus only comes once..then how could we not be here for the wrath of God in the trib..yet I don’t think we are here for the wrath of God in the trib either...because we are not destined for wrath.

Revelation‬ ‭16:1‬ ‭
Then I heard a loud voice from the temple, saying to the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.​
‭‭
The wrath we are not destined for is the spiritual wrath that occurs in hell. We will get rewards instead.

Jesus taught enduring persecution and hardships. Check Matthew 24:10-13 for example. The one who endures to the end will be saved.
 

BenjaminN

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No. Christ Yeshua -ist is the only label I'll allow to be hung around my neck.

Romans 14 (New King James Version)

6He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; [a]and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.