Is the God of the NT the same God as the God of the OT?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Whispered

Whispered

Well-known member
#62
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#62
Dave-L said:
We are born spiritually dead and cannot discern spiritual truth unless God opens our eyes. Notice what Paul says: “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

You are one whose eyes he opened to believe in Jesus.
Click to expand...
Proceeding from what you've said thus far. If we accept that unless God opens the eyes of those spiritually dead by God's design, sinners, those people are not able to discern spiritual truth. What then would be the purpose of God in the New Covenant telling us that He came (as Jesus) into the world so that whosoever believes in Him will not perish in their sins.
Why is there no condition in that verse in the Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16 that corroborates the belief that God has to first open sinners eyes so that they may discern the reason for Jesus coming?

Why are there so many verses in Jesus own words that tell us it is first Gods grace that saves and all that need be done on our part is believe?

Further, if I may, If we are all born spiritually dead and due to the will of an Omniscient Father who then, going with your premise, has to open our eyes first so that we may discern the spiritual truths He inspire to become His word (the Bible), and through the greatest teacher, Jesus, where is it then necessary for a spiritually dead people to come into faith in God? When God first created all people to be spiritually dead, and only saves those whose eyes He opens.

And pardon me if you have already answered this query elsewhere in these forums. Are you a Calvinist?
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#63
#63
Blik said:
And the point of this post is in seeing this grace that is made complete in Christ as He lived in our kind of time in the salvation offered under the old system, and if our God as we know God through Christ is the same God as one in the Torah.
Click to expand...
Haven't seen anyone yet say that the God of the OT isn't the same as the NT. Christ made a new convenant,but it's the same God
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#64
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#64
Whispered said:
Proceeding from what you've said thus far. If we accept that unless God opens the eyes of those spiritually dead by God's design, sinners, those people are not able to discern spiritual truth. What then would be the purpose of God in the New Covenant telling us that He came (as Jesus) into the world so that whosoever believes in Him will not perish in their sins.
Why is there no condition in that verse in the Book of John chapter 3 and verse 16 that corroborates the belief that God has to first open sinners eyes so that they may discern the reason for Jesus coming?

Why are there so many verses in Jesus own words that tell us it is first Gods grace that saves and all that need be done on our part is believe?

Further, if I may, If we are all born spiritually dead and due to the will of an Omniscient Father who then, going with your premise, has to open our eyes first so that we may discern the spiritual truths He inspire to become His word (the Bible), and through the greatest teacher, Jesus, where is it then necessary for a spiritually dead people to come into faith in God? When God first created all people to be spiritually dead, and only saves those whose eyes He opens.

And pardon me if you have already answered this query elsewhere in these forums. Are you a Calvinist?
Click to expand...
Grace = you cannot believe in the true Christ unless he first saves you. Whosoever believes is evidence God saved you. You could not believe otherwise.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#65
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#65
Whispered said:
Proceeding from your remarks there and with particular attention to sinners. What do you think would be the purpose of God giving bad to sinners?
Click to expand...
God would not be good if he didn't punish sin.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#66
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#66
Blik said:
How do you think your life would change if God controlled your every thought and action and you were like a robot? You couldn't even decide if you liked it better or not for God would control all your decisions.
Click to expand...
I'm glad God predestined all concerning me. I am no good in and of myself.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#68
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#68
Dave-L said:
Grace = you cannot believe in the true Christ unless he first saves you. Whosoever believes is evidence God saved you. You could not believe otherwise.
Click to expand...
Can you provide any scriptural evidence where someone was clearly "saved" before they "believed"?
 
Whispered

Whispered

Well-known member
#69
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,229
113
www.christiancourier.com
#69
Dave-L said:
Grace = you cannot believe in the true Christ unless he first saves you. Whosoever believes is evidence God saved you. You could not believe otherwise.
Click to expand...
Isn't that a little backwards as pertains to what the Gospel tells us? God saves someone who doesn't believe in Him? And afterward that person then believes? How do they arrive at belief in God when they did not believe prior?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#70
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#70
Whispered said:
Isn't that a little backwards as pertains to what the Gospel tells us? God saves someone who doesn't believe in Him? And afterward that person then believes? How do they arrive at belief in God when they did not believe prior?
Click to expand...
No, you can't believe unless he first saves you, in the New Birth. Whosoever believes has eternal life. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#71
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#71
Dave-L said:
No, you can't believe unless he first saves you, in the New Birth. Whosoever believes has eternal life. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Where is your scriptural support for this view? Again, can you provide any scriptural evidence where someone was clearly "saved" before they "believed"?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#73
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
#73
Whispered said:
I would agree with Dino here. Please support this claim above with relevant scripture.
Click to expand...
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#74
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#74
Dave-L said:
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 (KJV 1900)

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
Click to expand...
Inadequate by far. Please try again.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#75
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#75
just came in here, and haven't read all of the posts, but WE have READ the Bible many times -
(it's a Basic Tenet),
(((There IS only ONE GOD)))
MARK 12:28.
And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together,
and perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, Which is the first Commandment of all?
29.
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the Commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is One Lord...
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#76
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#76
Dino246 said:
Where is your scriptural support for this view? Again, can you provide any scriptural evidence where someone was clearly "saved" before they "believed"?
Click to expand...
John 6 maybe? It just came to mind.

Joh 6:37 Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and I'll never turn away the one who comes to me.

Joh 6:40 This is my Father's will: That everyone who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him to life on the last day."

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day.

Does this fit?
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#77
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#77
stonesoffire said:
John 6 maybe? It just came to mind.

Joh 6:37 Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and I'll never turn away the one who comes to me.

Joh 6:40 This is my Father's will: That everyone who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him to life on the last day."

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him to life on the last day.

Does this fit?
Click to expand...
Thanks. While it's certainly in the ball park, I don't believe it actually supports the claim that Dave_L made. I think we should leave it up to him to support his assertion. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.