Is the Gospel a job offer? Or good news aimed at those who believe?

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Noose

Senior Member
#221
Apr 18, 2016
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#221
Grandpa said:
Babies are born sinless?

Scriptures?
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This defeats your reasoning, if babies are born sinners and sinners need savior (Christ), how are babies saved? or are they all condemned because of the sin? Do they need to perform 'the little ritual' for them to be saved?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#222
Jan 17, 2020
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#222
garee said:
I would suggest it is more like the parable of workers of the field. All paid the same reward 1 cent = eternal life. Some worked little and some worked more And like the manna to be used of the Sabbath everyone had just enough even though some murmured and called it a unfair reward

Mathew 20:9-11 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny. And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,
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Your starting point is off. Grace is more like raising Lazarus from the dead so he can believe can live a new life.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#223
Jan 13, 2016
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#223
Grandpa said:
Babies are born sinless?

Scriptures?
Click to expand...
What sin have they committed? Is one guilty for someone else’s sin? Are you held accountable for your sins or someone else’s sins?
 
G

garee

Banned
#224
Mar 28, 2016
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#224
Dave-L said:
Your starting point is off. Grace is more like raising Lazarus from the dead so he can believe can live a new life.
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Lazarus was used in that parable to represent those born again. . the rising up to new born again spirit life. . The disciples were to remove the grave clothes to represent the wisdom of this world as brother and sisters in the lord. On the last day God will cloth us with the promise .Never to die again as did Lazarus .Elijah and a couple of others examples that was used as a shadow in the same way to represent the first rising .

John 11:23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
 
G

garee

Banned
#225
Mar 28, 2016
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#225
John146 said:
What sin have they committed? Is one guilty for someone else’s sin? Are you held accountable for your sins or someone else’s sins?
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The wage of sin born is being into a body of death .It is the wrath of God revealed to all of mankind from heaven .(Romans 1:18) A person must be born again. Marvel not.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#226
Jun 24, 2011
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#226
Noose said:
This is what David said after his son's death:
Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.” 2 Samuel 12: 22-23.

And this is one of the many conclusive verses:

Rom 2:6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” a 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Judgement is by works.
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These are your "conclusive" scriptures that ALL INFANTS are saved?

Are infants self seeking or are they persistent in doing good?

I don't think its a very good argument to say that ALL INFANTS are persistent in doing good.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#227
Apr 18, 2016
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#227
Grandpa said:
These are your "conclusive" scriptures that ALL INFANTS are saved?

Are infants self seeking or are they persistent in doing good?

I don't think its a very good argument to say that ALL INFANTS are persistent in doing good.
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They are persistent in doing good definitely for they know not hate -the one who loves has eternal life, the bible says.

This is what Jesus told grown men:

Matt 18: 3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

The argument to the contrary is nothing. You say children are born in sin, so how are they saved? Do you have any explanation?
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#228
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#228
Noose said:
This defeats your reasoning, if babies are born sinners and sinners need savior (Christ), how are babies saved? or are they all condemned because of the sin? Do they need to perform 'the little ritual' for them to be saved?
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Its completely obvious to me that EVERYONE is born a sinner.

This is ESPECIALLY obvious in children.


Its not too hard to grasp the concept of Salvation. Salvation is the Gift of God and not by peoples work.

Babies are saved the same as everyone else. They are given the Gift of God.
 
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Noose

Senior Member
#229
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#229
Grandpa said:
Its completely obvious to me that EVERYONE is born a sinner.

This is ESPECIALLY obvious in children.


Its not too hard to grasp the concept of Salvation. Salvation is the Gift of God and not by peoples work.

Babies are saved the same as everyone else. They are given the Gift of God.
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Ok. So how exactly is everyone saved? And if i was saved as a baby by this gift of God, i'm i required to be saved once again as an adult if this salvation is eternal?

:confused::confused:
 
G

garee

Banned
#230
Mar 28, 2016
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#230
Grandpa said:
These are your "conclusive" scriptures that ALL INFANTS are saved?

Are infants self seeking or are they persistent in doing good?

I don't think its a very good argument to say that ALL INFANTS are persistent in doing good.
Click to expand...

I would agree no one knows the number.

God was still communing bringing new prophecy with David .He must of revealed his son was given faith, an answer to his crying out..

As soon as they are born they go forth telling lies. Having not been revealed the gospel truth as it is written. Therefore they had no way to seek him out having no understanding of faith ? No person of their own volition can seek . A person must be born again .Why marvel just believe as David ?

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Roman3:10=11
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#231
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#231
John146 said:
What sin have they committed? Is one guilty for someone else’s sin? Are you held accountable for your sins or someone else’s sins?
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All you have to do is show the scriptures that state that infants are born sinless.

Otherwise, we must assume that everyone is born with the Lust of the Flesh, the Lust of the Eyes and the Pride of Life. I don't know why anyone would assume this is something that is learned later in life and not inherited by birth.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#232
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#232
Noose said:
Ok. So how exactly is everyone saved? And if i was saved as a baby by this gift of God, i'm i required to be saved once again as an adult if this salvation is eternal?

:confused::confused:
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Everyone who is saved is saved By God.

No one is saved because of their thoughts or their works.


Who would require you to be saved 2x? Saved is saved. The only problem here is that only the person that is saved KNOWS they are saved. One person can't tell another person if they are or are not saved.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#233
Jan 13, 2016
16,637
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#233
Grandpa said:
All you have to do is show the scriptures that state that infants are born sinless.

Otherwise, we must assume that everyone is born with the Lust of the Flesh, the Lust of the Eyes and the Pride of Life. I don't know why anyone would assume this is something that is learned later in life and not inherited by birth.
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You assume babies are born wicked sinners and sin as infants. What about babies in the womb? What sin are they committing?

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#234
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#234
Grandpa said:
Everyone who is saved is saved By God.

No one is saved because of their thoughts or their works.
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Perfectly ok with me but i still think it defeats your own logic or ideas about salvation.
If salvation is for sinners and it is not what we do or think, then everyone in the world is saved.


Who would require you to be saved 2x? Saved is saved. The only problem here is that only the person that is saved KNOWS they are saved. One person can't tell another person if they are or are not saved.
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Well, based on my understanding of the bible (salvation), i can confidently (and i know) say that infants are all saved. None of them goes to the hell fire.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#235
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#235
John146 said:
You assume babies are born wicked sinners and sin as infants. What about babies in the womb? What sin are they committing?

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
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Yes. Born in flesh. Born with the Lust of the Flesh, the Lust of the Eyes and the Pride of Life.

This is the description of the flesh, right?

Are babies born without this?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#236
Jan 13, 2016
16,637
3,533
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#236
Grandpa said:
Yes. Born in flesh. Born with the Lust of the Flesh, the Lust of the Eyes and the Pride of Life.

This is the description of the flesh, right?

Are babies born without this?
Click to expand...
You’re describing the world not babies. Do babies lust after the things of the world? Babies in the womb?

1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#237
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#237
John146 said:
You’re describing the world not babies. Do babies lust after the things of the world? Babies in the womb?

1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
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Psalms 51:5Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#238
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#238
John146 said:
You’re describing the world not babies. Do babies lust after the things of the world? Babies in the womb?

1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Click to expand...
Babies don't have flesh? Or eyes?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#240
Jan 13, 2016
16,637
3,533
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#240
Noose said:
Psalms 51:5Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.
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In your view, every abortion is sending a child to hell.
 
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