Is the Great Commission irrelevant for the church now?

[Guojing]

I am not unwilling to do anything

I just gave you the 4 responses to the 4 points.. Posting those verses is not going to change what is true.

Yeah, why let Scriptures get in the way of what you already believed to be true?

 

[Guojing]

The Gospel preached by Paul regarding the life, death, burial, resurrection of Jesus and His shed blood on the cross is no different from the gospel preached to the Israelites. It is the message we have heard from the beginning.

To you, the Gospel of Grace has the same underlying message as the Gospel of the Kingdom. For those who believe that, nothing the Scripture says will change their minds. That is okay. We can agree to disagree. Cheers

 

[corazondeldei]

To you, the Gospel of Grace has the same underlying message as the Gospel of the Kingdom. For those who believe that, nothing the Scripture says will change their minds. That is okay. We can agree to disagree. Cheers

BTW, what Paul was preaching regarding the Gospel came from Jesus who himself instructed His disciples to preach the gospel unto all nations...teaching them to obey everything he has COMMANDED them which Paul adhered to when he said;

"I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—"NIV1984 Romans 15:18

 

[Guojing]

BTW, what Paul was preaching regarding the Gospel came from Jesus who himself instructed His disciples to preach the gospel unto all nations...teaching them to obey everything he has COMMANDED them which Paul adhered to when he said;

"I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—"NIV1984 Romans 15:18

If the list of verses I have shown many times here that the gospel preached in the 4 gospels is not the same dbr as what Paul preached will not change your mind, nothing else will

 

[PS]

James is a devout Jew, and to them, they believe that they need Faith + Works, to be saved. They don't separate the 2. The verse that is very popular in this forum is this verse from James' letter.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

First Paul had faith in Jesus and works followed.

Without Paul's works, how would we know he had faith?

Works are the outward, visible sign of an inner, vibrant, living faith.

 

[Guojing]

First Paul had faith in Jesus and works followed.

Without Paul's works, how would we know he had faith?

Works are the outward, visible sign of an inner, vibrant, living faith.

Yes, under the GOK, faith and works are both necessary for salvation. One of the first work required was water baptism, that was why Mark 16:16 made perfect sense under the GOK.

 

[PS]

Yes, under the GOK, faith and works are both necessary for salvation. One of the first work required was water baptism, that was why Mark 16:16 made perfect sense under the GOK.

I do not understand your abbreviations, so will not respond any more.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The emphasis is on believing. Those who do not believe shall be damned.

Jesus did not say that condemnation belonged to the one who was not baptized, only to the one who does not believe.

 

[Guojing]

I do not understand your abbreviations, so will not respond any more.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

The emphasis is on believing. Those who do not believe shall be damned.

Jesus did not say that condemnation belonged to the one who was not baptized, only to the one who does not believe.

This is a redundant point since if you don't believe in the first place, you won't want to be baptized. It is not necessary to also add the baptism condition, to be part of the condemnation.

GOK means gospel of the kingdom.

 

[PS]

This is a redundant point since if you don't believe in the first place, you won't want to be baptized. It is not necessary to also add the baptism condition, to be part of the condemnation.

GOK means gospel of the kingdom.

So why make an issue of it, unless your intention is malicious?

 

[Guojing]

So why make an issue of it, unless your intention is malicious?

My point was simply that works was required under the Gospel of the Kingdom, which was what the Great Commission is based on.

 

[notuptome]

James is a devout Jew, and to them, they believe that they need Faith + Works, to be saved. They don't separate the 2. The verse that is very popular in this forum is this verse from James' letter.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Classic misunderstanding of this popular verse. Faith or profession of faith that does not produce works is a dead faith. The faith of Christ will produce works that are fruit of the Holy Spirit.

This world is full of pretenders. Few are the genuine possessors of the salvation Christ has given to those who receive Him. James received of the grace of God apart from works.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Guojing]

Classic misunderstanding of this popular verse. Faith or profession of faith that does not produce works is a dead faith. The faith of Christ will produce works that are fruit of the Holy Spirit.

This world is full of pretenders. Few are the genuine possessors of the salvation Christ has given to those who receive Him. James received of the grace of God apart from works.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You asked me how I will interpret Acts 21, and I given you my answer.

To James, he believed the 2, faith and works, are not to be separated. That was why he wanted Paul to also show that he is following the Law, like every other Jew who is zealous for the Law. But he did remind all of us in v25 that, in his view, Gentile believers are exempted.

 

[notuptome]

You asked me how I will interpret Acts 21, and I given you my answer.

To James, he believed the 2, faith and works, are not to be separated. That was why he wanted Paul to also show that he is following the Law, like every other Jew who is zealous for the Law. But he did remind all of us in v25 that, in his view, Gentile believers are exempted.

Have you read Galatians 3?

Galatians 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

I assure you that James agreed with these words as they are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Time for a theology adjustment?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Guojing]

Have you read Galatians 3?

Galatians 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

I assure you that James agreed with these words as they are inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Time for a theology adjustment?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I have already quoted Galatians 2 here before. James agreed to confine his ministry to the Jews only, and Paul was given the right to minister to all Gentiles. Both have their respective gospels, as stated in verse 7. Galatians is the gospel of the Gentiles.

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

In the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is for the circumcised Jews, there is no need for them to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose again as a sign that they are now justified in the eyes of God.

All they need to do is to acknowledge that Jesus is the promised Messiah and King sent to them. As the Gospel of John concluded in ch 20, remember he was one of the 3 apostles who agreed to confine their ministry to only the Jews,

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[PS]

My point was simply that works was required under the Gospel of the Kingdom, which was what the Great Commission is based on.

Incorrect. Belief is all that is required for salvation. After that we follow Jesus and if people cannot be bothered to follow Jesus through the waters, then saved they might be, but followers, no.

 

[Guojing]

Incorrect. Belief is all that is required for salvation. After that we follow Jesus and if people cannot be bothered to follow Jesus through the waters, then saved they might be, but followers, no.

If you believe that, and I certainly agree with you that belief is all that is required for salvation under the gospel of grace (GOG), then I am saying the GC is not for you. The GC was given to Jews, to preach to Jews.

But they rejected the GOK, so now, all of us, Jews and Gentiles, must go through the GOG in order to be saved. (Acts 15:11)

 

[notuptome]

I have already quoted Galatians 2 here before. James agreed to confine his ministry to the Jews only, and Paul was given the right to minister to all Gentiles. Both have their respective gospels, as stated in verse 7. Galatians is the gospel of the Gentiles.

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

In the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is for the circumcised Jews, there is no need for them to believe that Jesus died for their sins and rose again as a sign that they are now justified in the eyes of God.

All they need to do is to acknowledge that Jesus is the promised Messiah and King sent to them. As the Gospel of John concluded in ch 20, remember he was one of the 3 apostles who agreed to confine their ministry to only the Jews,

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

You must have missed Galatians 1.

Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

There is only one gospel. There is only one way to have your sins forgiven and be sealed unto the day of redemption.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Guojing]

You must have missed Galatians 1.

Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

There is only one gospel. There is only one way to have your sins forgiven and be sealed unto the day of redemption.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Galatians was written after the Jerusalem Council event in Acts 15. James was written before that.

As I have shown in this thread, Acts 21 clearly showed James did not agree with Peter's proclamation, during that event, that there will only be one gospel from then on for Jews, as well as Gentiles, the gospel of grace, in Acts 15:11

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

 

[notuptome]

Galatians was written after the Jerusalem Council event in Acts 15. James was written before that.

As I have shown in this thread, Acts 21 clearly showed James did not agree with Peter's proclamation, during that event, that there will only be one gospel from then on for Jews, as well as Gentiles, the gospel of grace, in Acts 15:11

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Really all you have done is prove you do not comprehend Acts 21. Paul was being falsely accused and went into the temple to demonstrate that he had not broken the law or committed any transgressions as he had been accused.
Do you understand liberty?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Guojing]

Really all you have done is prove you do not comprehend Acts 21. Paul was being falsely accused and went into the temple to demonstrate that he had not broken the law or committed any transgressions as he had been accused.
Do you understand liberty?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I understand that, people who believe the Gospel that Paul received from the ascended Christ, is exactly the same as the Gospel that was being preached in the 4 Gospels, will naturally believe that James and Paul were of like mind throughout the book of Acts.

If that is the case, then they will interpret the events in Acts 21 differently. That is okay, we can agree to disagree.