Is the human soul immortal?

crossnote · Apr 5, 2022

hmm mine has...
1 Timothy 1:16-17 (KJV) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

(still looking

).

Mitaze1075 · Apr 5, 2022

Runningman said:

I agree. I’m showing why it’s all symbolism. Why it’s not meant to be read literally and how it hyperlinks back throughout the Tanakh. Such as the dead are not literally stuck in the sea. Just like death is not literally a conscious being with personhood.
The concept is those lost to chaos brought before god and destroyed.

Magenta · Apr 5, 2022

crossnote said:

Are you a KJ onlyist? Do you think I deliberately misquoted???

New International Version
who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

New Living Translation
He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen.

English Standard Version
who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

Berean Study Bible
He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Berean Literal Bible
alone having immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no one of men has seen nor is able to see, to whom be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

King James Bible
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

New King James Version
who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.

New American Standard Bible
who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

NASB 1995
who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

NASB 1977
who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Amplified Bible
He alone possesses immortality [absolute exemption from death] and lives in unapproachable light, whom no man has ever seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal power and dominion! Amen.

Christian Standard Bible
who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see, to him be honor and eternal power. Amen.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
the only One who has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; no one has seen or can see Him, to Him be honor and eternal might. Amen.

American Standard Version
who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
He who alone is uncorrupted and dwelling in light that a human cannot approach and which none of the children of men has seen, nor can see, to whom be honor and authority to the eternity of eternities. Amen.

Contemporary English Version
Only God lives forever! And he lives in light that no one can come near. No human has ever seen God or ever can see him. God will be honored, and his power will last forever. Amen.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Who only hath immortality, and inhabiteth light inaccessible, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and empire everlasting. Amen.

Good News Translation
He alone is immortal; he lives in the light that no one can approach. No one has ever seen him; no one can ever see him. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen.

International Standard Version
He alone has endless life and lives in inaccessible light. No one has ever seen him, nor can anyone see him. Honor and eternal power belong to him! Amen.

Literal Standard Version
having immortality alone, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no one of men saw, nor is able to see, to whom [is] honor and perpetual might! Amen.

New American Bible
who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, and whom no human being has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal power. Amen.

NET Bible
He alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen.

New Revised Standard Version
It is he alone who has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see; to him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.

New Heart English Bible
who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no human has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

Weymouth New Testament
who alone possesses immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, and whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be eternal honour and power! Amen.

World English Bible
who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

Young's Literal Translation
who only is having immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable, whom no one of men did see, nor is able to see, to whom is honour and might age-during! Amen.

Look no more.

Mitaze1075 · Apr 5, 2022

Within the scholars world the KJV is known to be highly erroneous. Very few movements view the KJV and the NKJV as a well translated bible.

Magenta · Apr 5, 2022

crossnote said:

hmm mine has...
1 Timothy 1:16-17 (KJV) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

(still looking

).

You got the wrong verse. 1 Timothy 6:16

Not 1 Tim 1

PennEd · Apr 5, 2022

Mitaze1075 said:

There are 12 occurrences of Gehenna, and 10 occurrences of Hades in the NT.

Not sure where you got this 99% stat from.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 5, 2022

awelight said:

When we go to Hebrew 12:22-24 we read of "the spirits of just men made perfect" (which would be the OT saints) along with "the general assembly and church of the first born" (the Christians who have passed on). While it is possible that God provides all these souls with some kind of spiritual body, what we read about are simply the souls of martyrs beneath the altar in Heaven (Rev 6:9,10). However, it is only at the Resurrection/Rapture that we read about the saints receiving immortal, glorified bodies (1 Cor 15). This is when the souls and spirits of the saints are united with very special glorified and glorious bodies. So there is definitely a waiting for those bodies. Even in 2 Cor 5:4 Paul speaks about immortal bodies indirectly : For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

If mortality is metaphorically "swallowed up of life", then what we have is immortality. And since mortality and immortality apply to the body, it should be obvious that souls and spirits -- which will occupy those bodies -- are imperishable. So all this nonsensical talk about souls being perishable means nothing except hot air.

Magenta · Apr 5, 2022

PennEd said:

Perhaps it depends on the translation?

15 Bible results for “hell” from New International Version.

23 Bible results for “hell” from King James Version.

3 Bible results for “hell” from Young's Literal Translation.

17 Bible results for “hell” from English Standard Version.

16 Bible results for “hell” from New Revised Standard Version.

That's NT only

Mitaze1075 · Apr 5, 2022

PennEd said:

You are aware that hades is the grave and not hell right? Based off of what you just said it’s hell is 100% of the time based off of gehenna. It’s never based off of hades. Basically only the kjv keeps maintaining that error that almost all other translations have corrected. Theologically, the grave and gehenna are two separate events. Gehenna is the death of the body and soul with no resurrection and the grave is the death of the body and soul awaiting the resurrection.

Mitaze1075 · Apr 5, 2022

Hell is the lake of fire. It’s not hell cast into hell but hades cast into hell. Gehenna is hell. There are dozens and dozens of biblical scholars that have showcased this for decades. I don’t have the desire to but someone can also look at first and second century church fathers to see the difference as well.
I mean it makes no sense to say when the lost dies they go to hell. They they get resurrected out of hell and cast into hell which is then cast into itself. That’s silly. But the most dying and going to the grave, same as the saved dying and going to the grave, awaiting the resurrection so that those in Christ receive eternal life as the holy Jerusalem comes to earth and the lost die once more going to the grave and the grave is destroyed through hell the lake of fire meaning there’s is no hope of another resurrection for them. It’s the second death. The enteral punishment of being dead forever. The lost don’t get eternal life. Not even to be tortured.

Pilgrimshope · Apr 5, 2022

Magenta said:

it has for those who hear the word of life and come to repentance receiving the judgement now

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but those who reject the word of life will be judged the last day by the same word of life that lasts forever

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭

“And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭9:39-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we think we already know and reject Jesus giving us sight we’re in a bad position and will reject his word but if we know he’s the one who sees and we aren’t we’ll learn from him and accept his word

we can accept the word of judgement now and be saved through remission of sins by it or reject it and later be judged by it as our sin remains because we rejected the word of life given to believers

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can be in the church and accept judgement now or reject it

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s why accepting the gospel is so important it’s life to believe and certain judgement in the end to reject. Jesus is our judge and has set forth his judgement now so we can hear and believe and be saved

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Runningman · Apr 5, 2022

Mitaze1075 said:

I agree. I’m showing why it’s all symbolism. Why it’s not meant to be read literally and how it hyperlinks back throughout the Tanakh. Such as the dead are not literally stuck in the sea. Just like death is not literally a conscious being with personhood.
The concept is those lost to chaos brought before god and destroyed.

What is “the sea?”

Pilgrimshope · Apr 5, 2022

Runningman said:

“Hell = a physical grave in the earth.
The sea = a physical grave in the ocean or body of water
Death= those who had their soul destroyed in hell. Yes I believe God can resurrect a destroyed soul.”

“and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:23-25, 27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the physical grave is for the physical body the spirit goes where the spirit goes the physical is not made to capture the spiritual theee are spirit try all places for spirit

remember what set this in motion

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we see he’s not dead but very much alive and In Torment my point is that’s not the end everyone will be raised up for the judgement according to christs eternal word hell is a result of the law of sin and the first death

Mitaze1075 · Apr 5, 2022

Runningman said:

The sea represents chaos.

That’s why in genesis 1 you don’t see the waters being created. They were already there in the story. You don’t see any day saying this is the day they were made. Day one opens with them already being there.

The earth was formless and void and the spirit was hovering above the waters. In Hebrew the word formless is tohu ( h8424 ) and means tohu: formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness.

https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8414.htm

The chaos is unreality. It’s death. A world of just deep waters would be death for us.

It’s why we see the waters for death repeatedly and cumulates into baptism.

The dry land rose up and appeared out of the waters. Eden was a land that rose up between the four rivers. The land was exposed for Moses to cross. The ark carried Noah safely through the waters and the reed basket carried baby Moses safely through the waters. Christ carries us safely through desth and into life through baptism. He’s out ark into life. That’s the symbolism of baptism. Then we see chaos defeated and there is no longer a sea in the imagery of restoration.

Mitaze1075 · Apr 5, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

“Hell = a physical grave in the earth.
The sea = a physical grave in the ocean or body of water
Death= those who had their soul destroyed in hell. Yes I believe God can resurrect a destroyed soul.”

“and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:23-25, 27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the physical grave is for the physical body the spirit goes where the spirit goes the physical is not made to capture the spiritual theee are spirit try all places for spirit

remember what set this in motion

“And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we see he’s not dead but very much alive and In Torment my point is that’s not the end everyone will be raised up for the judgement according to christs eternal word hell is a result of the law of sin and the first death

The story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable……. It’s a parable surrounded by other parables. It’s directed at the priest Cephas and his brothers.
Again it would make no sense to say the rich man went to hell and was tortured. Then was resurrected at the white throne and judged guilty and then cast back to be tortured. There is one judgement. Not two.

Pilgrimshope · Apr 5, 2022

Mitaze1075 said:

no it’s not a parable it’s a teaching of what happens when we die Jesus isn’t using false understanding . It’s not a parable it’s a spiritual teaching from the lord who understands what we can’t until we hear him

it’s a teaching of what happens tonthe spiritual body at the first death of the physical body
and yes one judgement we can accept it now and repent or reject it and be raised in the end to be judged the last day

Mitaze1075 · Apr 5, 2022

I highly suggest reading this book for a more scholarly work on hell vs hades. It’s only a few hundred pages long. The 3rd edition is best.

Magenta · Apr 5, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

it has for those who hear the word of life and come to repentance receiving the judgement now

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but those who reject the word of life will be judged the last day by the same word of life that lasts forever

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭

“And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭9:39-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we think we already know and reject Jesus giving us sight we’re in a bad position and will reject his word but if we know he’s the one who sees and we aren’t we’ll learn from him and accept his word

we can accept the word of judgement now and be saved through remission of sins by it or reject it and later be judged by it as our sin remains because we rejected the word of life given to believers

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can be in the church and accept judgement now or reject it

“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s why accepting the gospel is so important it’s life to believe and certain judgement in the end to reject. Jesus is our judge and has set forth his judgement now so we can hear and believe and be saved

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That did not really address the question I asked... Though verses were or have been quoted that
speak of judgment on/in the last day. If judgment is future, why would anyone be in hell now?

Mitaze1075 · Apr 5, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

Everything about it states it’s a parable. The writing style. The metaphysics of it. The placement of it in scripture. It’s clearly using his friend Lazarus and his enemy Cephas as its characters.

People should google Lazarus and the rich man parable.

Magenta · Apr 5, 2022

Runningman said:

Mitaze1075 said:

Revelation 17:15 Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the
prostitute was seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues."

Isaiah 17:12-13a Woe to the multitude of many people who make a noise like
the roar of the seas, and to the rushing of nations that make a rushing like the
rushing of mighty waters! The nations will rush like the rushing of many waters.

Is the human soul immortal?

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