Is the human soul immortal?

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Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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My Dear Sister,
The LORD never told them to go back to sleep/death.
#1. They were never asleep/dead
#2. They were not woken from a state of sleep/death
#3. They are fully conscious and aware
#4. The are experiencing Eternal Life just as Spoken and promised by the LORD
#5. Everyday more are added to where they become the culmination we see in chapter 19
They were "stirred" in the spirit at the least, and reassured back to rest. If it makes you feel better to think the dead are conscious by all means I am not one to begrudge a brother his comfort. I on the other hand am comforted in the thought I'm no longer need be concerned of the affairs of the world until I'm am resurrected at Christ's return, finally. And if some major spiritual tumultuous distressful event stirs me up, I see here my comforted is even nearer than when I'm in my body.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Revelation was the LORD revealing to John.

John was not in a trance or vision and he was fully aware and conscious.
You seem so sure, and if I accepted opinion simply on that basis, I would be in more a world of confusion then is already encultured. But I really don't appreciate the suggestion that I implied any unconscious trance or sleep. Nonetheless, I'll give you a pass since you've been gracious toward me even to the point of being attentive enough to have noted my gender with precise accuracy. :love:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Revelation was the LORD revealing to John.

John was not in a trance or vision and he was fully aware and conscious.
The very first sentence of Rev identifies it as a vision.

Plus. "I saw" repeated over 30 times.

"I looked and saw" written 7 times.

"Appeared" 5 times.

"Watched" 2 times.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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"I will show you" 3 times.

"Showed me" 2 times.

"And he carried me away in the Spirit ..."
 
Aug 2, 2021
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You seem so sure, and if I accepted opinion simply on that basis, I would be in more a world of confusion then is already encultured. But I really don't appreciate the suggestion that I implied any unconscious trance or sleep. Nonetheless, I'll give you a pass since you've been gracious toward me even to the point of being attentive enough to have noted my gender with precise accuracy. :love:
Love you my Sister,

Internet chatter does often splatter
Hitting the wall - no matter
When Love comes in
we all avoid sin
and His Love
is all the Matters
 
Aug 2, 2021
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The very first sentence of Rev identifies it as a vision.

Plus. "I saw" repeated over 30 times.

"I looked and saw" written 7 times.

"Appeared" 5 times.

"Watched" 2 times.
Hello my Dear Sister Magenta,

I have not located John being in a trance/vision as we would typically find on earth, in this realm.

With that said: I am always open and thank you for sharing.

I receive your words and will further examine the matter - Thank You
 
Aug 2, 2021
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"I will show you" 3 times.

"Showed me" 2 times.

"And he carried me away in the Spirit ..."
imho - "And he carried me away in the Spirit" denotes more then just a vision/trance.

It is doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— how he was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities. For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool; for I will speak the truth. But I refrain, lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me.

OK - time for me to watch the hockey game

Peace and a big THANK YOU for your prayers my Sister in Christ
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you,( #2)The hour is coming, and (#1) now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25‬ ‭

This is TRUE everytime a soul is Born-Again by the LIVING SPIRIT of God.

This is also TRUE at His Second Coming and the Resurrection when the Graves Open and the Dead in Christ RISE.

1 Thess 4:13-18
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have died, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have died in Jesus.

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Right this is about the dead in Christ upon his return

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

these aren’t the dead in Christ though

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51

If they don’t enter death how are you placing them among the dead who are later risen from it ? Jesus words are meant to be the foundation of these things not pushed aside as if they aren’t true . how are you putting that group among the dead ?

like I was saying this isn’t going anywhere it’s a circle and we don’t have to agree but it’s about faith some can’t hear this part

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this doesn’t leave them in the grave …..
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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If the definition of a soul is confined to a living person, why wouldn't scripture then simply say that God made Adam a soul? Why was there a distinction made? You can go around the possibility that there is a distinction because there is such a thing as a dead soul (person) but there is even just the slightest possibility all the same. It's okay to just consider it because, "with God nothing is impossible."



Look at this verse and consider just the possibility that John is speaking of a vision of dead souls.... go ahead, at least try.

Rev 20:5 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
“If the definition of a soul is confined to a living person, why wouldn't scripture then simply say that God made Adam a soul?”

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,( adams body made of the dust doesn’t move think speak it’s inanimate a dead body just like when someone dies thier body becomes inanimate )

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; ( spirit of life is given of God into the body )

and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at the death of a mans body the spirit which has become the living soul inside the man parts from the dead body just as it happened before when it came into the dead body Creating the living soul. The process is reversed mans body dies and returns to the dust where it came from and the spirit returns to God where it came from

“Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The soul goes with the spirit of we love by the spirit , it remains with the body of we live by the flesh .

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

these two elements of man vie for the soul

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit,

and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Satan communicates To us through the lust of the flesh and leads us into sin and death . God speaks To us through the spirit and leads us into repentance , righteousness and remission of sins the spirit and life
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,643
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So you have two separate groups of saved, the elite saved and the common saved?
The first resurrection are those who rise to everlasting life, a good judgment of innocent because they are in Christ, they are all His sheep, both of this and the other flock, and the second group (the rest of the dead that 'shall not live again until the thousand years were finished') rise to judgment by the law, because they are not in Christ, which is a bad judgment.
I just acknowledge the two seperate resurrections.

“the second group (the rest of the dead that 'shall not live again until the thousand years were finished') rise to judgment by the law, because they are not in Christ, which is a bad judgment”

why is the book of life opened at the second ? And why does it explain that only those not written in it we’re cast into the lake of fire ? In the second ?

“And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the book of life is for those who acknowledge Christ and call upon him , the first resurrection is for those who keep his word and never enter death and don’t need to be raised from death in the end …..

just so you know though the law isn’t going to judge anyone’s eternal
Life or death it judges the world guilty of sin already that’s why we have to repent and believe the gospel , there’s only one judge and one judgement for all men’s eternal souls.

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:30-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law serves its purpose already and judged the world all guilty that’s again why we need to accept Christ and why it’s now about life after death

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel is the judgement the law made us all sinners no witnesses against all Men. Can’t save anyone. It’s why we die once we’ve all sinned.

The gospel is the eternal judgement and Christ is the judge his words our judgement we can do this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or we can ignore what he said can reject that truth and do this and rise to face the same words that were given to us by Jesus the judge of all in this life so we can repent and have our sins remitted

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the difference is if we accept his words or reject his words Jesus words because he’s the judge.

the only judgement pertaining to everlasting life or the lake of fire is the word of Jesus Christ the judge of the living and the dead.

Moses can’t save or condemn anyone after they die the law ends at the first death it’s why all are appointed to one death and then after that they are judged

Know ye not, brethren, how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if you search the whole law you don’t find anything applying to after the death of the body that’s what it’s about the flesh body and revealing sin and death. It’s why we’re appointed to die once because of the law , after death we face the judgement of Christ the everlasting gospel


“And as it is appointed unto men once to die,( the laws conclusion you sin you die )

but after this the judgment:” ( the eternal judgement )
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but why is the book of life opened at the last judgement ? And why are those not written in it cast into the fire of their all damned ?



And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life:….


This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”


some are saved now from death some later because they lived by the flesh . This is spoken To the church not non believers

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:

but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we do this we’re going to be among the judgement of the dead if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:”


Those who rejected the gospel but believed in Jesus like this

“that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there are different promises according to ones faith some just simply never here about this part and if they do they reject it as if it’s not real

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:51‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we do that though we’re accepting the same judgement now that others will be raised up to face in the end and that’s what puts us in the first resurrection we accepted the judgement now , repented and overcame the world by the spirit and received the full reward but all believers are going to ne saved in the end not all will be part of the first resurrection though Some will be saved in the last bekng written in the book of life
 
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You said: "the first resurrection is for those who keep his word and never enter death and don’t need to be raised from death in the end"
Where did Jesus or the Apostles ever say this???

When Jesus said: "If a man keep my words he shall never die" = this is TRUE and it does not include a man's physical body

“And the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”

Your response to Scripture: "these aren’t the dead in Christ though"

WHAT did you just do Brother - you cannot change Scripture and say "these aren't the dead in Christ though"

You are directly refuting the words of the LORD.

So please explain why you said: "these are not the dead in Christ"
 
Jan 31, 2021
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God’s Word declares that “the soul that sinneth it shall die” (Ezek 18:4, 20).
In both the OT and NT, the word "soul" means the person. People die.

When a man dies, “his breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish” (Psa. 146:4).
When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish.

This verse doesn't say what you claim it says. It is about the FACT that when a person dies, ALL their earthly plans end. That's all.

God told Adam, “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” (Gen. 2:17).
In the Hebrew, it is literally, "in the day that you shall eat of it, dying, you will die". There are 2 deaths here. Since Adam didn't fall on his face physically dead "on that day", we know that the word "dying" is a reference to his physical body, which began to age and deteriorate "on that day". Hence, human beings age, and will eventually die from old age, if they live long enough.

What did actually die "on that day" was Adam's human spirit. Recall that the Trinity said, "let US make man in OUR image". So THEY made man trichotomous; body, soul and spirit. Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well that in order to worship God, one must worship "in spirit and in truth". Jesus was telling her she needed to be BORN AGAIN. In regeneration, the dead human spirit is "made alive" (Eph 2:5).

So Adam died spiritually. He became separated from God when he ate the forbidden fruit.

That's why the Bible says that man "must be born again". John 3:7 That occurs at saving faith.

It was not merely Adam’s body that during that thousand-year day died, but Adam himself—the human soul or being died in every respect.
Not true. "on that day" Adam's body DID NOT DIE. But the process of old age death began. His body died nearly 1,000 years later.
And Adam's soul didn't die either. He remained conscious and able to communicate with God, although he hid because he lost his ability to worship since his human spirit had died. So the Lord made the first move and sought him out.

If Adam's soul had died "on that day", then the whole story would have ended in Genesis 2 and there wouldn't be any human race.

That which is immortal is not subject to death; it is death-proof, indestructible.
Adam's soul DID NOT DIE. Which is proven by his response to the Lord's questions. If his soul had died, that would have been the end.

But Adam was mortal, hence could die.
Body was mortal, and his human spirit was mortal, and "on that day" his body began to die from aging, and his human spirit died "on that day".

The Hebrew word translated “soul” is found hundreds of times in the Bible. Surely if the human soul were immortal God would have said so at least once!
Some things just don't need to be said. Like, for instance, have you been breathing lately? Duh.

The term “immortal soul” is not found in the Bible.
No need.

There is a difference between everlasting life and immortality. Immortality is only for those in heaven who are of the Divine nature. Everlasting life will never be possessed by any of the human race except as a gift from God. Space will not permit a further discussion here.
The Bible teaches differently. First, the Bible only uses the words "everlasting life" to refer to Having God's life and living with God forever. Immortality is more general and means existing/living forever.

Since Rev 20:10 is clear as crystal, all unbelievers and all fallen angels will be "tormented day and night, forever and ever."

Since John included the concept of TIME by the words "day and night", we KNOW for absolute FACT that the words "forever and ever" DOES include time. iow, their torment will last forever and ever. No ending of their torment.
 
Apr 14, 2022
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God’s Word declares that “the soul that sinneth it shall die” (Ezek 18:4, 20). When a man dies, “his breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish” (Psa. 146:4). God told Adam, “In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” (Gen. 2:17). It was not merely Adam’s body that during that thousand-year day died, but Adam himself—the human soul or being died in every respect. That which is immortal is not subject to death; it is death-proof, indestructible. But Adam was mortal, hence could die. The Hebrew word translated “soul” is found hundreds of times in the Bible. Surely if the human soul were immortal God would have said so at least once! The term “immortal soul” is not found in the Bible. There is a difference between everlasting life and immortality. Immortality is only for those in heaven who are of the Divine nature. Everlasting life will never be possessed by any of the human race except as a gift from God. Space will not permit a further discussion here.
The Bible says that the Breath of Life Return to GOd, this is Immortal, it is part of God TO begin with
 

RR

Active member
Mar 13, 2022
140
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Indiana
The Bible says that the Breath of Life Return to GOd, this is Immortal, it is part of God TO begin with
So, animals go to heaven? You mean I'll see my cat, Sam in the Kingdom of Heaven?

"And they went into the ark to Noah, two by two, of all flesh in which is the breath of life." Gen. 7:15
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,030
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Australia
I seen this on you tube, and it was very informative.
It covered much of what was said already.
It is worth watching
Hope it clears things up.