Is the Prophet lying?

[KennethC]

I will also add your premise is flawed...God has a perfect memory and has the ability to completely forget....their sins and iniquities I will REMEMBER no MORE...the memory of the wicked shall be FORGOTTEN...It is NO problem for Jesus to say that he never KNEW someone based upon the simple fact that they did not trust HIM in faith and he NEVER acknowledged them as children......

You need to use the whole context of scripture there as it shows these are repented and confessed of sins that our forgotten, not speaking on those who remained deliberately sinful.

The scriptures you are taking this from is Hebrews 8:12, 10:17, and also was stated in Isaiah 43:25 as these are sins that have been given remission for by His blood. These scriptures has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus telling a disobedient servant He never knew them, and is taking out of context to even compare it to two separate situations.

God created all things the good people and the bad people, so He knows all of His creations.
Saying He never knew somebody He created is a term of denial, denying them for denying Him !!!

 

[KennethC]

yes it is.....

Before agreeing with another who is just assuming something, you need to find out what the other person is saying.

Because Oh My Gosh is not using the Lords name in vain, so jumping to a conclusion that the person is using God in OMG before asking is jumping to a conclusion and not based on fact.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Well that would not happen for if a person does not accept Jesus Christ and does not repent of their sins then eternal life is not going to be what they receive at judgment.

When I was growing up in my Baptist church we always had the argument about: "What about the people who never heard, like deep in the Amazon jungle?". What happens to them? It wasn't until I read what John had said, that I then had my answer.

 

[KennethC]

When I was growing up in my Baptist church we always had the argument about: "What about the people who never heard, like deep in the Amazon jungle?". What happens to them? It wasn't until I read what John had said, that I then had my answer.

Here is your answer on that from the Lord Jesus Himself;

Luke 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Lord Jesus does not say they will escape punishment, but that their punishment will not be as severe as those who heard but refused to accept.

 

[Zmouth]

Well that would not happen for if a person does not accept Jesus Christ and does not repent of their sins then eternal life is not going to be what they receive at judgment.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8


For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Rom 11:27

So another way to look at is....

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Rom 11:29

 

[KennethC]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:8


For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Rom 11:27

So another way to look at is....

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Rom 11:29

Romans 11:29 is not doing away with repenting of sins !!!

It is saying that the gifts by the Holy Spirit and the calling that we accept of Him will not be taken from us by Him.
We are called to minister the gospel to others and we will be given gifts through the Holy Spirit, and those when we accept them will never be taken away.

Repenting of sins, baptism, confessing Him before others, forgiving others, and walking in love are all still valid for believers if they want to see eternal life. Because each one of these the Lord says if you do not do you will not be forgiven, you will be denied, and you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 13:3, John 3:5, Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:16, Matthew 10:32-33, Matthew 6:14-15, Matthew 22:36-40

Also see the chapters Matthew 25, Luke 12, and Hebrews 3-4 !!!

 

[RussellJBenigno]

i believe one is always held accountable for their sins in this world or the next and justice is done. i also believe som sins are greater than others. our Lord can forgive all sins the same but some sins carry you further from the Holy Father making it harder to turn back,there fore if one comments to much sin and wickedness it can carry them past the point of no return.

Thank you once again. I came to the same conclusion about sins of the flesh being judged in this life in the flesh. They are sins of the flesh and are punished in the flesh. And yes, the continued sinning can bring you to the point of no return.

Please consider this. The word "Forgiveness" means to "wash away". Now let's look at the verse:
(Matt 6:14 [AKJV])
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
If you wash away anothers sin, so shall your sin be washed away. Its the same word in the Greek which means its the same action. How can that be?
(John 20:23 [AKJV])
Whose soever sins you remit, they are remitted to them; and whose soever sins you retain, they are retained.
Now with this verse the translators play games. The word "Remit" is the same word to "wash away". So it should really say.
Whose soever sins you forgive [wash away], they are forgiven [washed away] to them; and whose soever sins you retain [strengthen to hold in place], they are retained.
Now the question arises: "How can men wash away sins?" The only way that can happen is if there is a difference in the sins. IE: spiritual and fleshly Jesus tells us to wash away the sins of others so that our sins can be washed away. If that is the case then the whole system of "sin is sin and only God can forgive sin" breaks down.
Now! Is there sin spiritual which only God can forgive? Yes! That's why Jesus died. But there appears another form of sins which are dealt with in the flesh by other men. How that works I'm not sure, but its there.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Here is your answer on that from the Lord Jesus Himself;

Luke 12:48

But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Lord Jesus does not say they will escape punishment, but that their punishment will not be as severe as those who heard but refused to accept.

But according to John the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world and that includes the amazon jungle people who never heard. How fair is it that God is going to punish people who never heard? God is Just, that means He does what is good and right. To punish someone who never heard is not very Just. The reason you have arrived at that conclusion is because your using the definitions supplied to you by the translators. I know and understand because I was given the same definitions and believed the same things. I had to understand the definitions from Gods point of view and I was surprised by them. The translators have played with the translations and corrupted the meanings. It was when I looked at the original language that I saw the differences. I encourage others to do the same.

 

[valiant]

The question is: How they are able to do miracles in the "Authority" of Jesus and not have known Him?
Pharisees today don't do miracles in the "Authority" of Jesus, because they don't know Him. It is only those who know Him which can perform healing, casting out demons and miracles. They understand the power. The gifts of God are given and unrecallable, which means those who have them can continue using them in a fallen state.

you are clearly ignorant of history. Acts itself speaks of one group of exorcists who sought to use the Name of Jesus. Do you really think that they stopped doing it just because of that one event? Jesus Himself referred to an exorcist who cast out demons in His Name, in that case with His approval. But the man was not a disciple. There were many exorcists in Jesus day, a number of them who no doubt also cast out demons in the Name of Jesus. Using an influential person's name was current at the time. What Jesus said in Matt 7 is further evidence that this occurred. It does not prove that those who did it were ever true disciples. You simply make the assumptions you want to.

BUT WHAT YOU TRIP UP ON ALL THE TIME IS THAT JESUS SAID OF THEM - I NEVER NEVER NEVER KNEW YOU

Judas did miracles and cast out evil spirits in the Name of Jesus, and he was a devil from the beginning

The question is, whose ideas do we trust, yours? or the very words of Jesus?

I find this thread very frightening. Christians who twist Jesus' words simply because they are inconvenient for their own position. Now wonder faith is collapsing

 

[valiant]

But according to John the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world

No, according to John the Lamb of God takes on Himself the sin of the world, He bears the sin of the world. It is in that sense that He takes it away. He takes it on Himself. He does not literally remove it from men.

In order to benefit from it we have to come to Him and put our trust in Him for salvation.

If He had taken away the sin of the world in your sense there would be no more sin.

and that includes the amazon jungle people who never heard. How fair is it that God is going to punish people who never heard? God is Just, that means He does what is good and right. To punish someone who never heard is not very Just.

You err not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. God is perfectly fair in judging anyone who has sinned, whether they have heard of Christ or not. They will be judged concerning their sin against their God-given conscience. Those who have sinned within the Law will be judged by the Law, Those who have sinned without the law will be judged by the law in their hearts. How dare you a grievous sinner tell God what is fair?

The reason you have arrived at that conclusion is because your using the definitions supplied to you by the translators

.

Rubbish. I don't rely on translations. I go by what the Greek is shown to mean in its usage at the time.

I know and understand because I was given the same definitions and believed the same things.

LOL so you now rely on what your small group says?

I had to understand the definitions from Gods point of view and I was surprised by them.

LOL we have another prophet among us. And he is disagreeing with Prophet Kenneth. As Jesus said, there would come false prophets among us.

So did God audibly tell you the meaning of all the greek words in the New Testament. Or did He write them in stone for you.? Tell us how you knew what God's definitions were?

What you mean is that you gullibly followed false teachers.

The translators have played with the translations and corrupted the meanings. It was when I looked at the original language that I saw the differences. .

Not only a prophet but also an expert Greek scholar? LOL So where did you learn what the original language said? Or did God come down and give you private lessons?

Which sources do you get your knowledge of Greek from? I hope not from the scholars you have derided above?

I encourage others to do the same

Come on folk its so easy. Don't bother with the Greek experts. Just learn Greek in a few months by private tuition and then you can forget what the experts say. Just make it up as you go along.

 

[valiant]

You need to use the whole context of scripture there as it shows these are repented and confessed of sins that our forgotten, not speaking on those who remained deliberately sinful.

The scriptures you are taking this from is Hebrews 8:12, 10:17, and also was stated in Isaiah 43:25 as these are sins that have been given remission for by His blood. These scriptures has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus telling a disobedient servant He never knew them, and is taking out of context to even compare it to two separate situations.

God created all things the good people and the bad people, so He knows all of His creations.
Saying He never knew somebody He created is a term of denial, denying them for denying Him !!!

LOL Prophet Kenneth. Another special revelation from above?

As any unbiased person recognises, saying He never KNEW them means that He had never had any personal relationship with them .. They had never known God, or been known by Him.

As 1 Cor 8.3 tells us, if we love God we are KNOWN BY HIM. The men in Matt 7 had never loved Christ, thus they had never been known by Him

To say I never knew you is a form of denial. It is a denial that He EVER knew them.

 

[KennethC]

But according to John the Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world and that includes the amazon jungle people who never heard. How fair is it that God is going to punish people who never heard? God is Just, that means He does what is good and right. To punish someone who never heard is not very Just. The reason you have arrived at that conclusion is because your using the definitions supplied to you by the translators. I know and understand because I was given the same definitions and believed the same things. I had to understand the definitions from Gods point of view and I was surprised by them. The translators have played with the translations and corrupted the meanings. It was when I looked at the original language that I saw the differences. I encourage others to do the same.

I have looked into the original language on subjects, and found that you have to be careful with that to because they have been messed with as well by translators. Giving the meanings of the original Greek and Hebrew words more definitions then what they originally had.

Notice how scripture says He will not return tell all nations have heard the good news, and here today we only have a very few remote areas that have not heard. Those places are being reached out to though, and some of them from those the only reason they have not heard is because they have refused to let outsiders in. We do our part by trying to get the message to them but if they refuse to let us come into their area to talk to them that is not our fault also it would not be God's unfairness to judge them.

 

[KennethC]

LOL Prophet Kenneth. Another special revelation from above?

As any unbiased person recognises, saying He never KNEW them means that He had never had any personal relationship with them .. They had never known God, or been known by Him.

As 1 Cor 8.3 tells us, if we love God we are KNOWN BY HIM. The men in Matt 7 had never loved Christ, thus they had never been known by Him

To say I never knew you is a form of denial. It is a denial that He EVER knew them.

You want to cause strife just to cause strife, because now you are repeated exactly what I said earlier that it refers to they never developed a personal relationship with Him.

He knows His own creations and therefore denies all those that deny Him, as is what Jesus is saying by I never knew you.
He is saying they have denied Him by their actions therefore He will deny them the kingdom of heaven.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

LOL Prophet Kenneth. Another special revelation from above?

As any unbiased person recognises, saying He never KNEW them means that He had never had any personal relationship with them .. They had never known God, or been known by Him.

As 1 Cor 8.3 tells us, if we love God we are KNOWN BY HIM. The men in Matt 7 had never loved Christ, thus they had never been known by Him

To say I never knew you is a form of denial. It is a denial that He EVER knew them.

The Prophets of God have something you don't have, the Immersion in Holy Spirit.
We speak what we have seen and heard from God unlike brute beasts.

 

[Magenta]

You want to cause strife just to cause strife, because now you are repeated exactly what I said earlier that it refers to they never developed a personal relationship with Him.

They may simply hold the same view, and did not read your post.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

I have looked into the original language on subjects, and found that you have to be careful with that to because they have been messed with as well by translators. Giving the meanings of the original Greek and Hebrew words more definitions then what they originally had.

Yes! I agree and am aware of that as well. I can see where the translators try and twist the original as well and it is obvious to me. Thanks for pointing that out.

Notice how scripture says He will not return tell all nations have heard the good news, and here today we only have a very few remote areas that have not heard. Those places are being reached out to though, and some of them from those the only reason they have not heard is because they have refused to let outsiders in. We do our part by trying to get the message to them but if they refuse to let us come into their area to talk to them that is not our fault also it would not be God's unfairness to judge them.

If the Good News is anywhere close to what we experience here, I have my doubts the world is hearing the Gospel. I believe there will be a resurgence of the True Gospel which will spread around the world. I believe that people today are mostly not rejecting the Gospel, but rejecting this modern corrupt version being shoved on them. When I present the Gospel, I don't get the resistance others experience.

 

[KennethC]

Yes! I agree and am aware of that as well. I can see where the translators try and twist the original as well and it is obvious to me. Thanks for pointing that out.

If the Good News is anywhere close to what we experience here, I have my doubts the world is hearing the Gospel. I believe there will be a resurgence of the True Gospel which will spread around the world. I believe that people today are mostly not rejecting the Gospel, but rejecting this modern corrupt version being shoved on them. When I present the Gospel, I don't get the resistance others experience.

Unfortunately I don't think there will be a resurgence, as I believe we are in the apostasy and falling away of the church.
I know the apostasy has been around for some time now, but I think the falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2 is where we are now. Even Jesus say when He returns will He find any faith left on earth which is a clear showing more will be unbelievers then believers at that point.

The pure gospel is still out there and being taught, you just have to look around and you will see it once you get passed the osaser and eternal security teachings that have infected pretty much all denominations now.

 

[KennethC]

They may simply hold the same view, and did not read your post.

I would have to say no because Valiant is one of a few that is always doing nothing but wanting to disagree with what I say no matter what I say.

 

[RussellJBenigno]

Unfortunately I don't think there will be a resurgence, as I believe we are in the apostasy and falling away of the church.
I know the apostasy has been around for some time now, but I think the falling away in 2 Thessalonians 2 is where we are now. Even Jesus say when He returns will He find any faith left on earth which is a clear showing more will be unbelievers then believers at that point.

The pure gospel is still out there and being taught, you just have to look around and you will see it once you get passed the osaser and eternal security teachings that have infected pretty much all denominations now.

I can see what your saying and agree we are in the Great Falling Away, however God is never left without a witness. Oh of course there are other Apostle, Prophet, Teachers, Pastors and Evangelist who have a heart toward God and are preaching the Gospel. When God took me on this trek to learn the Gospel of Christ I saw things that I knew of no one else who preached the things I saw. I began to question myself and then God reminded me of an e-book. Up until that point I was not allowed to read or listen to anything, but the Gospels. I had 21 points I never learned in bible college or read about. I was floored, this book had everything I found by the Power of the Holy Spirit. I asked the author where he got these teachings and he said,"By the power of the Holy Spirit". The point is God is faithful to His Word and has a remnant who have not bowed knee to the modern abominations.

 

[valiant]

You want to cause strife just to cause strife, because now you are repeated exactly what I said earlier that it refers to they never developed a personal relationship with Him.

He knows His own creations and therefore denies all those that deny Him, as is what Jesus is saying by I never knew you.
He is saying they have denied Him by their actions therefore He will deny them the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore they had NEVER been His, they had never been saved. QED