Is there a Biblical Way to Worship or is it Just Human Preference?

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#41
God clearly shows (and says) that the physical ways of the old testament were only an example of the real (spiritual) ways of the new testament. "These were only a shadow of things to come, the reality however is found in Christ." (When Christ took authority from Moses- Matthew 28:18, Romans 7:1-4). Here is a list of physical things that are not practiced in Christ's new testament church...

Physical rest on a physical day (sabbath)- we practice it spiritually, and it is called 'the peace that surpasses understanding'.
Physical sacrifice of a physically perfect physical lamb- Jesus is our spiritually perfect Lamb if God, sacrificed one time for all people.
Physically take adulterers outside the city and stone them to death- we do this spiritually by having them die to their selves in order to live for God.
Physical laws written on physical tablets- now God writes His laws on our hearts and minds spiritually. And the laws themselves are to be obeyed spiritually. For example, you could not physically murder in the old testament, but now we must obey this law spiritually- which means that if you hate your brother you are already guilty of murder, whether you carry it out physically or not.
●Physical shout to the Lord (Jericho)- our spiritual prayers to God move mountains.
●Physical circumcision- we are spiritually circumcised by Christ blood during baptism.
●Physical instruments- our spiritual praise to God comes from, as He says, the fruit of our lips, and the melody of our hearts.

God says to rightly divide the Word- old testament=physical worship, new testament=spiritual worship. It is not just a scripture or two that we go off of, it is the whole pattern that we can clearly see. Jesus did not use physical instruments, and He has all authority over God's people today. Did He give you authority to use physical instruments in His church? A church that does not stick to the doctrine of Christ is not Christ's church.

"They worship Me in vain, their doctrine is merely human rules."
So, are you claiming that any church (or individual) that uses instruments in songs of worship is not “Christ’s church?”
 
#42
Weird isn't it? People will deny charasmatic worship, people dancing and reveling in the spirit of praise and worship. And yet if their favorite team is winning a Monday night football game, they'll cheer to the rafters and high five their buddies with no constraint at all.

I knew someone who condemned music in worship. Any kind of music. Somber piano, organ, even just singing .
What a boring time that would be. Praise God in song, we're told. I didn't have the hart to tell them what the Book of Psalms really was about.

You'll find all manner of differences of opinion among Christians. Even those that say the Sabbath is no longer to be observed. Yet, they'll go to church on Sunday after condemning those who worship according to the scriptures. Saying that is for the Jews and not for us anymore.

I don't think God is going to hold anyone in contempt if they worshiped him with a sincere heart. Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath. He was the same God that created that day to be holy.
It's the 21st century. Sometimes we can get off on that holy day if our employer is amenable. But really, isn't every day an opportunity to praise God?
God knows a sincere heart and mind.
I don’t believe there is anything wrong with being joyful, of course, and sometimes that may be expressed outwardly with dancing and songs of praise. Joy may also be expressed quietly, peacefully and reverently and it is no less joy for all that.

When in comes to “charismatic worship”, unfortunately we get into some very different issues. There are certain “manifestations” such as “Holy laughter”, being”drunk in the spirit”, “slain in the spirit” etc. that are in fact a loss of control, which is not Biblical. One of the “fruits of the Spirit” is temperance or self-control. The true Holy Spirit does not cause anyone to lose control of their bodies, bark like dogs, thrash around, spasm, laugh uncontrollably, scream or cry uncontrollably or lay motionless and paralyzed on the floor for hours.

I’m not sure if you were referring to these aspects of “charismatic worship” that occur in so many Charismatic churches, but, if so, we definitely have every reason, Biblically, to object to such things. The only record we have in Scripture of people losing control like that and being thrown around is demonic and the only record we have of a person acting like an animal (king Nebuchadnezzar) was a judgement and condemnation from God.

We also do well to remember the orderly worship taught in 1 Corinthians 14. And we also know that the “gifts of the Spirit” are for edifying and building up the Church, not to cause disruption or confusion and pandemonium. Indeed, God is not the Author of confusion, as the Scriptures say.

Unfortunately, much of “Charismatic worship” is in fact confusion, loss of control and hyper emotional experiences that end up being sought after to the point where sound doctrine is devalued and even ignored.

I have friends and family caught up in this, to the point they follow the self-professed “Holy Ghost bartender” who treats the Holy Spirit like some substance one can “drink” and get drunk on. This is blasphemous and heretical. The Holy Spirit is the third “”Person” of the Trinity, He is not “new wine” to “drink” so one can be “drunk in the Spirit.”

Anyway, when one refers to that kind of “Charismatic worship” (not saying you were of course) one does well to be concerned and to warn.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#43
Did he give you the authority to forbid it? Absence of example is not prohibition against. We are called to freedom, not chains.
Forbid what specifically? And no, everything is from the bible.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#45
So, are you claiming that any church (or individual) that uses instruments in songs of worship is not “Christ’s church?”
Christ did not authorise them in His church. There is no mention of instruments or chiors when He or the Church sang hymns. The first church did not use instruments for 800 years. Many man-made churches branched off of the one Christ started. Making sure our worship matches the bible is the only way to identify if we are in His church or a man-made church. Josiah became king at eight years old. He found God's law, read it, and realized they had not been obeying it, and he ordered it to be put back into practise. If a church does not do the same with the doctrine of Christ, how can they be His church? "Why do you call Me Lord and do not what I say? God's says, not me but God, "They worship Me in vain, their doctrine is merely human rules." God does not accept worship that does not match the doctrine of Christ.
 
#46
Christ did not authorise them in His church. There is no mention of instruments or chiors when He or the Church sang hymns.
You are making an argument from silence. There is nothing in Scripture that forbids the use of musical instruments in worship.

The first church did not use instruments for 800 years.
How do you know that for absolute certainty? Instruments were used in the OT and no doubt still were in Jesus’ time on earth. When did He forbid them? When did any of the inspired Scripture writers forbid them?

Many man-made churches branched off of the one Christ started.
Christ’s Church has always been His Church. All true believers are the “body of Christ.” The “gates of Hell” have never prevailed and never will. Are there false, manmade institutions, absolutely, but they aren’t the true Church.

Making sure our worship matches the bible is the only way to identify if we are in His church or a man-made church. Josiah became king at eight years old. He found God's law, read it, and realized they had not been obeying it, and he ordered it to be put back into practise. If a church does not do the same with the doctrine of Christ, how can they be His church? "Why do you call Me Lord and do not what I say? God's says, not me but God, "They worship Me in vain, their doctrine is merely human rules." God does not accept worship that does not match the doctrine of Christ.
Please provide Scriptural proof that musical instruments are in fact forbidden in Christian worship. If you cannot, then you may want to ask yourself if you are the one promoting a “doctrine of mere human rules.”

We are not under a “yoke of bondage.” We are free in Christ. God clearly accepted and was pleased by the use of musical instruments in worship in the OT, so what reason do we have from Scripture to believe He no longer is and that He no longer allows it?
 

melita916

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
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#48
Jesus said to worship in spirit and in truth. Worship is a lifestyle that includes the position of my heart/mind/emotions/entire being.

As for music goes, God gave a lot of people the talent to sing/play an instrument. I play the violin. And I’m going to praise and worship my Savior by using the talent He gave me. I have been able to bless my local congregation with my talent. All glory to God!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#49
Exactly. Therefore, it is not an unbiblical practice. When the Bible is silent on an issue (although we have OT examples), we should take caution. Do not become like the world or copy what the world is doing and put a Christian spin on it. That can be dangerous and can lead to a worldly type worship.
 

melita916

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
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#50
A question for non instrument folks:

Is the no instruments only for local assembly services? Or in everything? Like... do you buy music? If so, does it have musical instruments or just a cappella?

Just wondering :)
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#51
It doesn't matter, we have no authority to add personal preferences. It is called worship service for a reason- we are worshiping God the way He wants, not the way we want. There is only one audience of our worship- God. We are not there to entertain people. Why did Jesus get baptized? He had no sins to wash away. He did it because we are to follow His example.
 
#52
It doesn't matter, we have no authority to add personal preferences.
Why are you adding "personal preferences" then? (Or why is your church and its leadership)? If the Bible is silent on something (though we have far more reason, from the OT to understand that God is not against instrumental music in worship of Him) then it would be a "personal preference" either way. It is your "personal preference" not to allow instruments and it may be another's to allow them. There is nothing anywhere in Scripture that forbids it.

It is called worship service for a reason- we are worshiping God the way He wants, not the way we want.
So, where in Scripture are we told He no longer "wants" musical instruments being used in worship? If you cannot provide sound, Biblical doctrine on this matter, then, as I wrote earlier, you may want to ask yourself if you are guilty of the very thing you're accusing others of. (In this case, worshiping God the way they want as opposed to what He wants).

There is only one audience of our worship- God. We are not there to entertain people.
Not everyone who uses musical instruments in worship is trying to "entertain people". That is an intent of the mind and/or the heart, it has nothing to do with what tools we use to worship, whether it's our voice or musical instruments, or both. If a person's intent is merely to "entertain" they could do so just as well Acappella.

Why did Jesus get baptized? He had no sins to wash away. He did it because we are to follow His example.
And? Where did Jesus forbid the use of musical instruments in worship?
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#53
A question for non instrument folks:

Is the no instruments only for local assembly services? Or in everything? Like... do you buy music? If so, does it have musical instruments or just a cappella?

Just wondering :)
Outside of the first day of the worship assembly, sure. That's like asking that if women must remain quiet during worship does that mean all the time as well? God tells us to use our bodies as living sacrifices, that this is our spiritual act of worship. So if I sacrifice my weekend there someone move, by lifting box after box, does that mean I should be lifting boxes in the worship assembly? Of course not. There is worship in and out of the weekly assembly. Everything, including scripture, can be used for good or evil, like instruments, your car, your pillow, clothes, movies, everything. But just because you can use something, even for God, doesn't mean you can use it in the worship assembly.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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#54
Why are you adding "personal preferences" then? (Or why is your church and its leadership)? If the Bible is silent on something (though we have far more reason, from the OT to understand that God is not against instrumental music in worship of Him) then it would be a "personal preference" either way. It is your "personal preference" not to allow instruments and it may be another's to allow them. There is nothing anywhere in Scripture that forbids it.



So, where in Scripture are we told He no longer "wants" musical instruments being used in worship? If you cannot provide sound, Biblical doctrine on this matter, then, as I wrote earlier, you may want to ask yourself if you are guilty of the very thing you're accusing others of. (In this case, worshiping God the way they want as opposed to what He wants).



Not everyone who uses musical instruments in worship is trying to "entertain people". That is an intent of the mind and/or the heart, it has nothing to do with what tools we use to worship, whether it's our voice or musical instruments, or both. If a person's intent is merely to "entertain" they could do so just as well Acappella.



And? Where did Jesus forbid the use of musical instruments in worship?
Wow, did I ever hit a beehive! I have to go get my grandkids, I'll try to answer these later...
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#56
It doesn't matter, we have no authority to add personal preferences. It is called worship service for a reason- we are worshiping God the way He wants, not the way we want. There is only one audience of our worship- God. We are not there to entertain people. Why did Jesus get baptized? He had no sins to wash away. He did it because we are to follow His example.
GOD gives us liberty in all things. The CoC doctrine is just man-made legalism.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill the law by which priests were commissioned into service (Exodus 40:12-15).
 

melita916

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2011
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#57
Outside of the first day of the worship assembly, sure. That's like asking that if women must remain quiet during worship does that mean all the time as well? God tells us to use our bodies as living sacrifices, that this is our spiritual act of worship. So if I sacrifice my weekend there someone move, by lifting box after box, does that mean I should be lifting boxes in the worship assembly? Of course not. There is worship in and out of the weekly assembly. Everything, including scripture, can be used for good or evil, like instruments, your car, your pillow, clothes, movies, everything. But just because you can use something, even for God, doesn't mean you can use it in the worship assembly.
But where in the Bible does it say we can’t/shouldn’t use instruments in a worship assembly?

Forgive me if this has been addressed.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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#58
Worship in my understanding through experience is what wells up out of my heart to God when I'm moved within through revelation about God by Holy Spirit.

The goodness of God leads us to repent of self and worship only He who is worthy of it.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#59
In worshiping God

These are the golden rules:

2 Timothy 2:22 King James Version (KJV)

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

1 John 5:14 King James Version (KJV)

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:


Even you are not in the worship service; you can do these things as ways of worshiping God.

Romans 12 New International Version (NIV)

A Living Sacrifice
12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.

Romans 6:19 (NIV) I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so norhChrist w offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness.

The examples are not cheating your neighbor; not selling illegal things according to the law; you do not offer yourself as assassin etc.
I would add knowing we are warned in 1 John 2 as to the nature of the spirit of the antichrists as those who would seduce the believers to believe they do need a man to teach them( as that seen), even knowing the promised Holy Spirit, (not seen) would keep his promise as to Christ, a word meaning the anointing one,, who anoints or teaches men . as he teaches us we abide in him .Especially in these last days, when walking by sight as if the kingdom of God did come by observation has all but made the faith that comes from hearing God through the scriptures a oddity . Like the query in Luke 18 asks? When Christ comes on the last day will he find faith or those walking after the imaginations of their own hearts.. evil continually? like the days of Noah

The reference you offered should be our goal, but if we do not learn how God desires we hear him giving us his instructions .How could we respond to ….He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. a statement made in Revelation 2 and 3 after each new faithful lesson to His bride the church . He gives us ears or understand what he says to the churches that make up the one bride of Christ we "mix faith" the unseen understanding in what we do hear.

John 16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Paraphrased as I would offer.....but if I depart, as in out of sight out of mind I will send him unto you.

No serving two masters, the flesh as that seen, and the unseen spirit. I would think as new creatures, in Christ.Christ in us not of us we simply do not wrestle against the things seen . No living hope in that.

He must increase as we decrease .
 

Redeemed2015

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2014
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#60
"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
John 4:24

Now compared to what Scripture has to say about this.
"Your justice is righteousness forever,
and Your Torah(Law) is truth."
Psalm 119:142


"For we know that the Torah(Law) is spiritual; but I am of the flesh, sold to sin. "

The Law is Both Spirit and Truth according to Scripture. And it is by this standard we are told we are to Worship.
Worship in Spirit and Truth, obey HIS Law that details explicitly how G-D wants us to worship/live our lives as a "Living Sacrifice".