Is there a difference between the new and old covenant?
- Thread starter vassal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Paul also says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19. Paul is hard to understand and Paul never taught something different than Jesus. What Paul is saying is we are not under the condemnation of the law if one is in Christ. Those who are not in Christ are hostile to Gods law and can't submit themselves to God's law Rom 8:7-8. God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12 through faith and love 1 John 5:3 John 14:15, Exo 20:6 which reconciles us Rev 22:14
Just give me one scripture where God said we don't have to keep the Sabbath commandment. God wrote and spoke it personally, no made has the authority over God- only He can reverse His blessing and Jesus said not a jot or tittle can pass and not to break the least of these which came with a warning. Mat 5:17-30. So my faith is in Him and His every Word.
Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 God's faithful followers kept the Sabbath after the cross according to the commandment Luke 23:56 the apostles kept every Sabbath preaching to Jews and Gentiles Acts 13:42-44 Acts 18:4 30+ years after the Cross. The Sabbath will be kept until Jesus reveals Himself Isa 56:1-6 and takes His people to His holy mountain (heaven) Isa 56:7 where the Sabbath continues for His saints for eternity Isa 66:23-23.
I have studied this topic for a long time from cover to cover. I did read your post, but its the same sad arguments, taken out of context and not one scripture stating the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated, thus saith the Lord.
Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 God's faithful followers kept the Sabbath after the cross according to the commandment Luke 23:56 the apostles kept every Sabbath preaching to Jews and Gentiles Acts 13:42-44 Acts 18:4 30+ years after the Cross. The Sabbath will be kept until Jesus reveals Himself Isa 56:1-6 and takes His people to His holy mountain (heaven) Isa 56:7 where the Sabbath continues for His saints for eternity Isa 66:23-23.
I have studied this topic for a long time from cover to cover. I did read your post, but its the same sad arguments, taken out of context and not one scripture stating the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated, thus saith the Lord.
I knew this point would be brought up.
I will reply to this because ”forever” relates to other topics in the Bible.
You must know that forever and its other related synonyms does not always mean forever in the Bible.
So the word "forever" and its related synonyms as used in the Bible is true. It does mean "forever" but it is talking in "forever" under the context of within either a temporary Covenant, or here upon this Earth (which is temporal). For example: A husband can say to his wife that he will be with her forever. But of course, this talking in context of "forever" as being here upon this Earth. In many cases, words such as "everlasting" or "forever" can be in context to a particular thing that is temporal within the Bible.
Source used:
(Please take note that I do not agree with everything these Christian authors believe, say, or do).
(I also adjusted some of his points on his list, as well).
Apttpteach
I will reply to this because ”forever” relates to other topics in the Bible.
You must know that forever and its other related synonyms does not always mean forever in the Bible.
• In Genesis 13:15 the land of Canaan is given to the descendants of Israel “forever.” However, the Earth (Where Canaan resides) will pass away (Matthew 24:35) (Revelation 21:1).
• Isaiah 34:9-10 mentions a city in the region of Idumea (of the people of Edom) and how its burning pitch will not be quenched night or day, and the smoke of that city will go up forever. However, again, the Earth (Where Idumea resides) will pass away (Matthew 24:35) (Revelation 21:1). Note: Please pay special attention to this passage. It also mentions “night, “day” and “for ever and ever” just like Revelation 20:10.
• The Israelites and their sons were to keep the Passover “forever” (Exodus 12:24).
The Passover is a part of the laws of Moses. But Christians today are not under the Laws of Moses (Romans 6:14) (Acts 13:39) (Acts 15:1-24).
• Exodus 27:21 says Aaron and his sons must keep the lamps burning as a statute (law) forever unto their generations (descendants). Exodus 28:43 says that Aaron and his sons must wear certain pieces of clothing when they enter the Tabernacle. This was to be a statute (law) unto Aaron and his sons forever. The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Exodus 40:15). However, the Aaronic priesthood was temporary, and it was replaced by the priesthood order of Melchisedec (Hebrews 7:11-19).
• Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jeremiah 30:12) until -- the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jeremiah 30:17).
• Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting" until -- they “were scattered” (Habakkuk 3:6).
• God was to dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:12-13, 1 Kings 8:27), until -- the Temple was destroyed (2 Kings 25:8-17).
• The children of Israel were to "observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant" (Exodus 31:16)-until -- Paul states there remains "another day" of rest for the people of God (Hebrews 4:8-9) and they are not to let others judge them if they don’t keep the Sabbath days (Colossians 2:14-17).
• The fire for Israel's burnt offering (animal sacrifice) is never to be put out (Leviticus 6:12-13), and yet -- Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, and sat down on the right hand of God (Hebrews 10:12).
• Jonah describes how the earth with her bars was about him forever when he was in the fish (Jonah 2:6), until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 1:17).
• The forts and towers shall be for dens (animal habitations) for ever, until -- the Spirit is poured out (Isaiah 32:13-16).
• The King James Bible, as well as many other translations, tells us that a bond slave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6). This obviously would be only until his death.
• Numbers 15:15 says that the animal sacrifices will be forever, but we clearly know this is not the case because Jesus has become our Passover Lamb (1 Corinthians 5:7) (1 Peter 1:19).
• In Philemon 1:15: Paul mentioned to Philemon how Onesimus may have departed so that Philemon may receive him back forever. Obviously if this were to have happened, Onesimus is not an immortal man still living upon the Earth with his master (Philemon) today. If Onesimus returned, he would have returned back to his master forever within the context of their temporary lives upon the Earth.
So the word "forever" and its related synonyms as used in the Bible is true. It does mean "forever" but it is talking in "forever" under the context of within either a temporary Covenant, or here upon this Earth (which is temporal). For example: A husband can say to his wife that he will be with her forever. But of course, this talking in context of "forever" as being here upon this Earth. In many cases, words such as "everlasting" or "forever" can be in context to a particular thing that is temporal within the Bible.
Source used:
(Please take note that I do not agree with everything these Christian authors believe, say, or do).
(I also adjusted some of his points on his list, as well).
Apttpteach
Colossians 2:16 and Acts 15 is pretty good for me. Then there are all the other verses that says that the Law (Laws of Moses) have ended. This is obviously in reference to the ceremonial aspects of the Old Law and not the moral laws that were repeated in the New Testament (like: Do not murder, do not covet, do not steal, etcetera). Again, not debating this with you. I already made my case.
God calls the Ten Commandments "My covenant" Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 or "My commandments" Exo 20:6 never has it been called the law of Moses. That is the law placed outside the ark. God's Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark Exo 40:20 personally written and spoken by God Exo 31:16 Exo 32:16 no greater Authority. It's what all man will be judged by James 2:10-12 Mat 5:19-30 Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 22:14-15 which is why it sits under His mercy seat. I would not want to remove anything that we would not be covered by His mercy, but we do have free will. Thanks for the chat and I wish you well
God's 7th day Sabbath rest pointed forward to the rest from works for salvation we find in Christ... it had nothing to do with Him actually resting, since He works every day including Sabbaths... Jesus said so, and worked on the Sabbaths also. It is not about resting from works on a specific day of the week such as Sabbatarins falsely teach, and the command to observe the Sabbaths is nowhere in the New Testament, nor is it even possible to keep it the way it was commanded to be kept in the OT, despite all the blather put forth by Sabbatarians.
God wrote and spoke:
Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
God rested on the seventh day as an example for man. To claim He did not rest on the Sabbath, is not biblical.
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Jesus in His own Words said He kept all of the commandments John 15:10 which includes the Sabbath Luke 4:16 as an example for mankind 1 John 2:6
God did not give Himself a commandment to keep. The commandments are for God's people. Rev 14:12
It's why God's people rested according to the commandment Luke 23:56 in the NT instead of doing their own thing, which scripture calls rebellion.
Jesus taught not a dot or tittle can be pass from His law as no one is above Him Mat 5:18 and therefore if we break or teach others to break the least of these, comes with a warning Mat 5:19
Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
God rested on the seventh day as an example for man. To claim He did not rest on the Sabbath, is not biblical.
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
Jesus in His own Words said He kept all of the commandments John 15:10 which includes the Sabbath Luke 4:16 as an example for mankind 1 John 2:6
God did not give Himself a commandment to keep. The commandments are for God's people. Rev 14:12
It's why God's people rested according to the commandment Luke 23:56 in the NT instead of doing their own thing, which scripture calls rebellion.
Jesus taught not a dot or tittle can be pass from His law as no one is above Him Mat 5:18 and therefore if we break or teach others to break the least of these, comes with a warning Mat 5:19
Last edited:
“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
Colossians 2:16-17 KJV
“One man esteemeth one day above another:
another esteemeth every day alike.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord;
and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. .”
Romans 14:5-6KJV
Colossians 2:16-17 KJV
“One man esteemeth one day above another:
another esteemeth every day alike.
Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord;
and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. .”
Romans 14:5-6KJV
-
3
- Show all
Always does. Leaves out important parts or truncates verses.
In Christ we draw near to God by being included in Him.
Whereas the Levitical priest represented man before God...
The priest of Melchizedek represents God before man.
As God's representatives, we are constantly in rest, just like He is. Our whole existence should be characterized by rest. A man who is at rest 1 day out of 7 is living an unredeemed life of bondage to sin: a requirement of a sabbath 1 day out of 7 is an admission that the curse of the law still remains on the man.
In Christ we draw near to God by being included in Him.
Whereas the Levitical priest represented man before God...
The priest of Melchizedek represents God before man.
As God's representatives, we are constantly in rest, just like He is. Our whole existence should be characterized by rest. A man who is at rest 1 day out of 7 is living an unredeemed life of bondage to sin: a requirement of a sabbath 1 day out of 7 is an admission that the curse of the law still remains on the man.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
“If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
…..For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect,
but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
Hebrews 7:11-12, 18-19
“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:…. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
…. and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded:
for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
2 Corinthians 3:7, 11, 13-15
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
Jeremiah 31:31-32
Finally
“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons,
the one by a bondmaid,
the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh;
but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai,( the Ten Commandments came from Sinai ) which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
….Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: ( old covenant from Sinai )
for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.( new covenant given to the world …the gospel )
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman,( old covenant from Sinai )
but of the free.”( new covenant word John 8:31-32)
Galatians 4:21-26, 30-31
There are two covenants they have a different word , mediator , blood , priesthood, and people they are given to one is given specifically to the christen of Israel ( 12 tribes of Israel ) through Moses words
“These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.”
Deuteronomy 29:1 KJV
Christian’s do not belong to those words we all that believe now belong to Jesus words when the gentiles were included in the gospel
“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
at he things Moses commanded the things that were given from Sinai soecifically to the children of Israel for thier promised land is not the same covenant made with all people for a promised land of a new heaven and earth where God dwells
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I've read that somewhere. 
-
1
- Show all
No, just allowing the scripture to speak for Itself. It doesn’t need our help.
The law stated only the Levities could be priests.Num 18:20-32 Jesus came from the tribe of Judah. So how would He become our High Priest if the law (priesthood) was’t changed. Which is what Hebrews 7 addresses.
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
28: For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
I guess we have free will to write whatever law we want in scriptures. I just don’t recommend doing so, one might end up deleting something God wants us to Remember and keep.
The law stated only the Levities could be priests.Num 18:20-32 Jesus came from the tribe of Judah. So how would He become our High Priest if the law (priesthood) was’t changed. Which is what Hebrews 7 addresses.
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
28: For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever.
I guess we have free will to write whatever law we want in scriptures. I just don’t recommend doing so, one might end up deleting something God wants us to Remember and keep.