Is There Not One Godly Man Left?
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Maybe thats why God gave me my new job this year. This is the first time in 16 yrs I'm only teaching in a classroom one day a week, but I'm the new P.E. Coach of an elementary school the other 4 days and I love it!! We played indoor baseball with wiffle balls and it was soooo fun!!! I love to read too and cannot seem to stop buying books. We need to keep our entire body healthy and happy. I agree, total stress relief!
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The mouth has gotten too big, and the hands have become too idle. What I would suggest is for every pastor to stop preaching for six months. And instead, use the time they normally prepare their sermons to train just one person every day for a month. Teach them to teach others so that they can perpetuate further teaching.
By the end of those six months, you have six strong teachers who can teach others one-on-one. They don't even have to go outside the four walls. There are plenty of church members who are desperate for spiritual guidance.
After one year, the result of this one-on-one discipleship would be no less than 42 well-trained Christ-followers ready to train others to go and make even more disciples the following year.
Me neither. And I would never consider Pastor Begg an offensive man.
However, I should clarify my stance. I believe he is lending credence to the notion that most men in the church are inadequate husbands. And while not overtly offensive, I strongly disagree with that position.
Ah, yes. So, I'm not the only one who sees it. I'm sure other people notice the disparaging comments toward men coming from the pulpit.
It's one thing to say it in private. It's another to say it in front of the wives, fiances, or girlfriends. Women don't need any more excuses to leave their husbands. They get plenty from the worldview that sees men as merely sperm donors or as a convenient source of perpetual income.
That's a nice thought, but how accessible do you think Alistair Begg really is, being a celebrity preacher? These guys have legions of gatekeepers standing by to thwart us, peasants. And unfortunately, pastors in churches with less than 100 people showing up every Sunday have almost as many gatekeepers.
By the end of those six months, you have six strong teachers who can teach others one-on-one. They don't even have to go outside the four walls. There are plenty of church members who are desperate for spiritual guidance.
After one year, the result of this one-on-one discipleship would be no less than 42 well-trained Christ-followers ready to train others to go and make even more disciples the following year.
Me neither. And I would never consider Pastor Begg an offensive man.
However, I should clarify my stance. I believe he is lending credence to the notion that most men in the church are inadequate husbands. And while not overtly offensive, I strongly disagree with that position.
Ah, yes. So, I'm not the only one who sees it. I'm sure other people notice the disparaging comments toward men coming from the pulpit.
It's one thing to say it in private. It's another to say it in front of the wives, fiances, or girlfriends. Women don't need any more excuses to leave their husbands. They get plenty from the worldview that sees men as merely sperm donors or as a convenient source of perpetual income.
That's a nice thought, but how accessible do you think Alistair Begg really is, being a celebrity preacher? These guys have legions of gatekeepers standing by to thwart us, peasants. And unfortunately, pastors in churches with less than 100 people showing up every Sunday have almost as many gatekeepers.
Well @SteveEpperson There's a lot in your post that I particularly like.
Specifically the teaching thing. I once read a little bit of a book while I was tanning (might as well make use of the time) and it was about making disciples using a similar theory of exponential growth.
Since it centered around the gospel though it just didn't stick with me. Most of that is because sharing the gospel only works like that "in theory". In practice I find it to be a bit more organic and you can't just treat the gospel like some sort of sales pitch.
Some do and that's their business...I decide not to "call it into account" but it's definitely not the way things flow in my walk. I might talk to someone about Jesus that's an unbeliever and actually have what seems like an open door or "Divine appointment" a few times a year at most.
Teaching on the otherhand that is centered around equipping people somehow just sounds so right to me. Quite obvious now that you said it but it took your post to connect the dots. Cool how things work sometimes.
I want to respond a bit more thoroughly to your post (particularly to the last part) as that is a "point of consternation" for me and sometimes a "point of contention". I usually skip the middleman and bring it before the Lord but sometimes my attitude in doing that is most likely akin to how the Israelites "grumbled" and I've been led to those passages more than once in my mind as having done that/am doing so because it was something of a personal chastisement I know I have some heart issues to work on there.
Like when Jesus said to Peter, what is it to you if I want him to remain until I come? You follow me!
Which I'm sure we all know but it's just really hard sometimes. Especially when we perceive error...which oftentimes is indeed error it's just that I don't have the full picture. Or perhaps it's highly inappropriate to "peer" at someone generally speaking. While it is true that if we all held each other under a microscope we'd see flaws/faults...that's not what I mean by it. I know I have my own issues but often I seek accord within the body and agreement and when there is disagreement it messes with my walk to a certain extent. Not entirely if we get right down to it...but I'd rather not have the disparity of course.
But yeah I don't want to be hasty so I'll put it off for a bit. Take care. I enjoyed that.
Specifically the teaching thing. I once read a little bit of a book while I was tanning (might as well make use of the time) and it was about making disciples using a similar theory of exponential growth.
Since it centered around the gospel though it just didn't stick with me. Most of that is because sharing the gospel only works like that "in theory". In practice I find it to be a bit more organic and you can't just treat the gospel like some sort of sales pitch.
Some do and that's their business...I decide not to "call it into account" but it's definitely not the way things flow in my walk. I might talk to someone about Jesus that's an unbeliever and actually have what seems like an open door or "Divine appointment" a few times a year at most.
Teaching on the otherhand that is centered around equipping people somehow just sounds so right to me. Quite obvious now that you said it but it took your post to connect the dots. Cool how things work sometimes.
I want to respond a bit more thoroughly to your post (particularly to the last part) as that is a "point of consternation" for me and sometimes a "point of contention". I usually skip the middleman and bring it before the Lord but sometimes my attitude in doing that is most likely akin to how the Israelites "grumbled" and I've been led to those passages more than once in my mind as having done that/am doing so because it was something of a personal chastisement I know I have some heart issues to work on there.
Like when Jesus said to Peter, what is it to you if I want him to remain until I come? You follow me!
Which I'm sure we all know but it's just really hard sometimes. Especially when we perceive error...which oftentimes is indeed error it's just that I don't have the full picture. Or perhaps it's highly inappropriate to "peer" at someone generally speaking. While it is true that if we all held each other under a microscope we'd see flaws/faults...that's not what I mean by it. I know I have my own issues but often I seek accord within the body and agreement and when there is disagreement it messes with my walk to a certain extent. Not entirely if we get right down to it...but I'd rather not have the disparity of course.
But yeah I don't want to be hasty so I'll put it off for a bit. Take care. I enjoyed that.
I very much agree
Yep, I'm with you.
Yeah, I think we as people who sit in the pews have an opportunity to evangelize, even within the four walls of the church. Many people who go to church don't know the Lord. Jesus said:
Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. Mat. 7:21-23 ESV
Unfortunately, we may have to infiltrate the bureaucracy to gain access to the hurting people in our church. When I devise a full-proof method, I'll let you know.
Yes. However, it can also be the years of listening to pastors tell us to quit whining, that people are starving in Africa, and somehow our being spiritually orphaned is secondary to that.
I think more than pointing out this pastor's error, I wish to lament the need for pastors to go silent for a while and simply become shepherds once again.
Yep, I'm with you.
Yeah, I think we as people who sit in the pews have an opportunity to evangelize, even within the four walls of the church. Many people who go to church don't know the Lord. Jesus said:
Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them, I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness. Mat. 7:21-23 ESV
Unfortunately, we may have to infiltrate the bureaucracy to gain access to the hurting people in our church. When I devise a full-proof method, I'll let you know.
Yes. However, it can also be the years of listening to pastors tell us to quit whining, that people are starving in Africa, and somehow our being spiritually orphaned is secondary to that.
I think more than pointing out this pastor's error, I wish to lament the need for pastors to go silent for a while and simply become shepherds once again.
I am sorry to hear of this GOd said what HE has joined together let nothing come between it.
Also, it says IF a Huband doesn't provide for his family he is worst than an unbeliever. It is the job of the husband to go to work and provide. But it is the job of the Church to build up the husband and pray and give godly counsel. The goal should not be to see separation but RESTORATION. And the reconciliation of the marriage and family.
I have counseled many married men, I would never say to leave your wife or divorce them. As a minister, we should go down fighting to save the marriage if all possible.
Also, it says IF a Huband doesn't provide for his family he is worst than an unbeliever. It is the job of the husband to go to work and provide. But it is the job of the Church to build up the husband and pray and give godly counsel. The goal should not be to see separation but RESTORATION. And the reconciliation of the marriage and family.
I have counseled many married men, I would never say to leave your wife or divorce them. As a minister, we should go down fighting to save the marriage if all possible.
Thank you for that comforting thought.
The scripture you are referring to here is 1 Timothy 5:8. Paul states:
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Now, I know that the KJV says "his own," but most scholars agree that, given the context, Paul was talking about taking care of the widows. And that was everyone's responsibility.
Of course, it goes without saying that a man should provide for his family. However, at least here in the US, that means providing:
And it's just one more reason that men especially are leaving the institutional church in droves. The pastors and elders may have the money to keep up the required lifestyle within the church club, but at an average hourly wage of $12 in the US, it's difficult for the average person.
Yes, I agree. And I would ask those preaching their sermons to be careful what they say. The wives of these men they're trying to admonish are listening intently.
The scripture you are referring to here is 1 Timothy 5:8. Paul states:
Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Now, I know that the KJV says "his own," but most scholars agree that, given the context, Paul was talking about taking care of the widows. And that was everyone's responsibility.
Of course, it goes without saying that a man should provide for his family. However, at least here in the US, that means providing:
- The new house
- The new car (or $80K truck, where I'm from)
- The fastest internet with a full line of cable service
- New furniture
- The latest iPhones for the wife and kids
- Brand new Nikes for everyone in the house every month
- The family vacation to Disneyland every year
And it's just one more reason that men especially are leaving the institutional church in droves. The pastors and elders may have the money to keep up the required lifestyle within the church club, but at an average hourly wage of $12 in the US, it's difficult for the average person.
Yes, I agree. And I would ask those preaching their sermons to be careful what they say. The wives of these men they're trying to admonish are listening intently.
8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
the application of the husband is appropriate. Paul also says the wife is to obey Her own husband. In the context of providing, I mean Biblical meeting the need of the family not all wants. I too think that preaching should not always be taken as it is to the person hearing but apply it where it is appropriate.
The Pastor must remember HIS message is to HIM First before it is to US in the pews.
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