Is There Not One Godly Man Left?

[Radius]

Coincidentally enough, I attend this church in Bainbridge, OH, and have since 1994--since he taught out of the Solon High School auditorium (before Parkside was built--see my signature, as I have a quote of his there). And Pastor Begg is one of the most well respected preachers in this area and is a stand up man.

He may say some things that come off the wrong way (he is from Scotland and early on rubbed us the wrong way with some of the things he said. He has that UK humor which Americans can easily take offense to. You can call it having fun, or hazing Americans or Cleveland in general but it was light hearted and meant to be taken as a joke...maybe his pattern of speech is due to living in Scotland, I don't know how they do it in Glasgow, but it wasn't anything really bad).

Anyway, I think you are doing him an injustice painting him as a predatorial pastor. That's way off the mark. Remember, I've seen him in person and have been under his teaching as well as his pastoral team for close to 30 years, and you are making this thread after one low-light (if you can call it that)?

He was there when my grandfather was passing away. At our house. Anecdotally, I can vouch for this preacher. He has spread the love of God and His Word all over Northeastern Ohio. God Bless Pastor Begg. I'm glad I clicked on this thread and can weigh in on it from a personal point of view, because his name doesn't deserve to be trashed like it is in here based off one bit of advice he gave.

 

[SteveEpperson]

Seriously, i would change channels on your car radio and stop listening to this whack job.

It was not my intention to disparage Pastor Begg in any way. I am just desperate, as other Christ-followers, for a paradigm shift in the way our most revered church leaders conduct discipleship training.

Alistair Begg graduated from the London School of Theology in 1975. He then served in ministry in Scotland for about eight years.

In 1983, he moved to Cleveland, Ohio, to become senior pastor at Parkside Church. Like other pastors, he broadcasts his sermons on CSN Radio.

If you have never heard him, he is truly an amazing preacher. And he does it in a soft-spoken style that is so refreshing in the midst of a vitriolic, tumultuous world.

 

[rayzor]

I think men of god r suppose to suffer a little.Suffer is to be so now.

 

[SteveEpperson]

What are the odds Begg asks a question like that and realized in his sermon to follow answered it, as a man?

Let's not be too hard on 'ol Pastor Begg. After all, it was not my intention to rake him over the coals.

However, as God's mouthpiece, I believe most pastors have gotten a bit too loud. I would like instead to see them working more quietly on showing instead of telling. And here, I sensed Pastor Begg was following the herd a bit too closely by disparaging men in the church.

 

[SteveEpperson]

I'm sorry to hear this, and shocked that this actually happened. Just remember that there is a day of reckoning for everyone involved.

Thanks so much for the support. However, I think I may have erred by drawing attention to my experience instead of to the underlying issue, which is the disconnect between church leaders and the people they are supposed to lead.

I truly want to experience preachers complaining less about how terrible men are in western culture and start mentoring them. Only then will we see the desired outcome. But it's not going to happen with preaching alone.

 

[Icedaisey]

Let's not be too hard on 'ol Pastor Begg. After all, it was not my intention to rake him over the coals.

However, as God's mouthpiece, I believe most pastors have gotten a bit too loud. I would like instead to see them working more quietly on showing instead of telling. And here, I sensed Pastor Begg was following the herd a bit too closely by disparaging men in the church.

As we know, pastors will be held to a higher standard at the judgement than the laity.

As Shepherd's of God's flock they are rightly subject to scrutiny when presuming to tell others how to treat one another in relationships.
Walk the talk.

 

[SteveEpperson]

Coincidentally enough, I attend this church in Bainbridge, OH, and have since 1994

You must be a very blessed person to attend such a fine church.

And Pastor Begg is one of the most well respected preachers in this area and is a stand up man.

I very much agree. His credentials alone speak well for him.

He may say some things that come off the wrong way

No, this is not the issue at all. I am not speaking to style or even presentation. I am merely pointing out the tired argument most American pastors— and I consider Pastor Begg an American, notwithstanding his accent— have that asserts there are no Godly men within their congregations.

And if that's the case, I put the blame squarely on the pastors. It is their responsibility to train the men to train other men. I'm sorry to be such a contrarian to church tradition, but the pastor's job is not to preach. It's to train others to go out into this nasty world and make disciples. And they, in turn, will make more disciples, God willing.

Anyway, I think you are doing him an injustice painting him as a predatorial pastor

Go back and reread the post. In no way does it suggest I'm accusing him of being predatorial. On the contrary, I am holding him in the highest esteem by suggesting he can do what others can't by walking away from their church buildings.

Yes, some of the replies here are a bit nasty toward the pastor. But that is merely a symptom of laziness on the part of the reader. In no way will you find in my post having a predatorial viewpoint toward pastor Begg. I was merely pointing out that a paradigm shift is needed toward the men in the church.

I'm glad I clicked on this thread and can weigh in on it from a personal point of view, because his name doesn't deserve to be trashed like it is in here based off one bit of advice he gave.

You are right. And in no way was I attempting to trash him personally. So, again, I would like for you to go back and re-read the post. And instead of focusing on the pastor. And please let me know what you think of the possible solutions I've laid out toward making Godlier men.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I truly want to experience preachers complaining less about how terrible men are in western culture and start mentoring them. Only then will we see the desired outcome. But it's not going to happen with preaching alone.

Agreed. But the proper NT pattern is a plurality of pastor/elder/bishops, not one man. And this pattern (as well as the mentoring) has been abandoned.

 

[Radius]

You must be a very blessed person to attend such a fine church.



I very much agree. His credentials alone speak well for him.



No, this is not the issue at all. I am not speaking to style or even presentation. I am merely pointing out the tired argument most American pastors— and I consider Pastor Begg an American, notwithstanding his accent— have that asserts there are no Godly men within their congregations.

And if that's the case, I put the blame squarely on the pastors. It is their responsibility to train the men to train other men. I'm sorry to be such a contrarian to church tradition, but the pastor's job is not to preach. It's to train others to go out into this nasty world and make disciples. And they, in turn, will make more disciples, God willing.



Go back and reread the post. In no way does it suggest I'm accusing him of being predatorial. On the contrary, I am holding him in the highest esteem by suggesting he can do what others can't by walking away from their church buildings.

Yes, some of the replies here are a bit nasty toward the pastor. But that is merely a symptom of laziness on the part of the reader. In no way will you find in my post having a predatorial viewpoint toward pastor Begg. I was merely pointing out that a paradigm shift is needed toward the men in the church.



You are right. And in no way was I attempting to trash him personally. So, again, I would like for you to go back and re-read the post. And instead of focusing on the pastor. And please let me know what you think of the possible solutions I've laid out toward making Godlier men.

I'm sorry brother, I'll have to re-read your OP. It's my mistake if I interpreted it wrong.

 

[tourist]

The second witness....Eve

There is mention of her in the bible regarding her dietary habits.

 

[tourist]

I'm sorry brother, I'll have to re-read your OP. It's my mistake if I interpreted it wrong.

Apparently, I did too. My bad, per usual.

 

[Hungry]

Let's not be too hard on 'ol Pastor Begg. After all, it was not my intention to rake him over the coals.

However, as God's mouthpiece, I believe most pastors have gotten a bit too loud. I would like instead to see them working more quietly on showing instead of telling. And here, I sensed Pastor Begg was following the herd a bit too closely by disparaging men in the church.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought you stated he was talking about how women shouldn’t “settle” for ungodly men and that they shouldn’t expect them to change. I don’t think he suggested divorcing them.

I hear what you are saying about coming down from the pulpit and guide rather than instruct. I will say this in response. Unless an individual wants to be led, he won’t follow. I’ve taught fitness for years. Most just listen and say how informative it is. Unless the person wants to change, they will continue in their stupidity and failure. I believe Pastor Begg was correct. It’s not that men suck and it’s up to women to train them. The point was if the dude is not what you’re looking for before the wedding, don’t expect you can mould him into Mr. Perfect after.

 

[SteveEpperson]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought you stated he was talking about how women shouldn’t “settle” for ungodly men and that they shouldn’t expect them to change. I don’t think he suggested divorcing them.

No, but the implication is there for a young wife to misconstrue the message. My point here is that he's adding fuel to the fire. And the spark is often ignited by other pastors criticizing the men in their congregations.

They often tell these guys they better shape up, or their wives might leave them. And, of course, what an absolutely horrible thing to say. I was merely pleading with Pastor Begg not to follow the herd since he is within the cream of the crop of church leaders in the US.

Unless an individual wants to be led, he won’t follow.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm being harsh, but this is a tired argument and blames everyone but the church leaders. It's the same as President Biden blaming the Afghanistan debacle on Donald Trump. Most people want to be led, but only by people who know how to lead and are not hypocrites.

I’ve taught fitness for years. Most just listen and say how informative it is. Unless the person wants to change, they will continue in their stupidity and failure.

I had a fitness studio for twenty years and know what you mean. So we are fellow trainers. And kudos to you for making your community healthier.

However, you also know that you have to meet the client where they are. If pastors have in front of them dyed-in-the-wool atheists, that's what they have to work with.

You wouldn't turn down a client just because they are a few pounds overweight, right? So, why should a pastor cherry-pick the flock? God has placed the congregation where they are for a reason. And it's the pastor's job to work with what he's got, not make excuses.

Not to beat a dead horse, but that problem person in the church who doesn't quite "get it" is not going to "get it" by listening to sermons. The pastor needs to teach the elders how to teach the mature Christians how to teach this problem person. Then, when they finally "get it," they too can be an amazing force for God in the local community.

But I don't think it's going to happen unless we as congregants flip discipleship on its head. We need to take a bottom-up approach since the top-down approach hasn't worked for 2,000 years.

I say we take the keys to our church buildings back from our pastors. We then have the power to open it back up to the community that so desperately needs real ministry, not preaching.

Sure, our pastors can come back once they demonstrate they can go out into the community and make disciples there. After all, that's what Jesus did.

believe Pastor Begg was correct. It’s not that men suck and it’s up to women to train them. The point was if the dude is not what you’re looking for before the wedding, don’t expect you can mould him into Mr. Perfect after.

And my point was that if Pastor Begg would step away from the pulpit for six months, put down his microphone, and turn off the computer, he would have plenty of time to teach one-on-one. Then, you would be amazed at the selection of Godly men those young ladies at Parkside Church would have.

 

[rayzor]

There is mention of her in the bible regarding her dietary habits.

yea seeing that he was pleasing to look at and that the fruit was good 2 eat.Also desired to make one wise

 

[Hungry]

No, but the implication is there for a young wife to misconstrue the message. My point here is that he's adding fuel to the fire. And the spark is often ignited by other pastors criticizing the men in their congregations.

They often tell these guys they better shape up, or their wives might leave them. And, of course, what an absolutely horrible thing to say. I was merely pleading with Pastor Begg not to follow the herd since he is within the cream of the crop of church leaders in the US.



I'm sorry if you feel I'm being harsh, but this is a tired argument and blames everyone but the church leaders. It's the same as President Biden blaming the Afghanistan debacle on Donald Trump. Most people want to be led, but only by people who know how to lead and are not hypocrites.



I had a fitness studio for twenty years and know what you mean. So we are fellow trainers. And kudos to you for making your community healthier.

However, you also know that you have to meet the client where they are. If pastors have in front of them dyed-in-the-wool atheists, that's what they have to work with.

You wouldn't turn down a client just because they are a few pounds overweight, right? So, why should a pastor cherry-pick the flock? God has placed the congregation where they are for a reason. And it's the pastor's job to work with what he's got, not make excuses.

Not to beat a dead horse, but that problem person in the church who doesn't quite "get it" is not going to "get it" by listening to sermons. The pastor needs to teach the elders how to teach the mature Christians how to teach this problem person. Then, when they finally "get it," they too can be an amazing force for God in the local community.

But I don't think it's going to happen unless we as congregants flip discipleship on its head. We need to take a bottom-up approach since the top-down approach hasn't worked for 2,000 years.

I say we take the keys to our church buildings back from our pastors. We then have the power to open it back up to the community that so desperately needs real ministry, not preaching.

Sure, our pastors can come back once they demonstrate they can go out into the community and make disciples there. After all, that's what Jesus did.



And my point was that if Pastor Begg would step away from the pulpit for six months, put down his microphone, and turn off the computer, he would have plenty of time to teach one-on-one. Then, you would be amazed at the selection of Godly men those young ladies at Parkside Church would have.

Do you have a ministry?

 

[SteveEpperson]

Do you have a ministry?

Should I?

 

[Hungry]

Should I?

Shouldn’t you? Here is the disconnect in the Body. The mouth is doing what the mouth is supposed to do. Why should the mouth stop being a mouth to be a hand. If you see the Body needs hands to give stability to the fingers then by all means, be a hand so the mouth can continue the work it has been ordained to do.

 

[Icedaisey]

Never heard off Begg. Uk tv is different. Tell me more about the tv there

If you can get YouTube in the UK you may be able to watch some of his sermons here: Alistair Begg - YouTube

 

[SteveEpperson]

The mouth is doing what the mouth is supposed to do. Why should the mouth stop being a mouth to be a hand.

This is also a well-worn excuse. Show me in the scriptures where the ONLY duty of the pastor is to preach.

It's a lose-lose argument either way. If you can prove the only function of the pastor is to preach on Sundays, then please tell them to get out of the way so the rest of us can minister to the flock. Oh, and by the way, can you please leave the church keys under the mat. Thanks.

 

[Hungry]

This is also a well-worn excuse. Show me in the scriptures where the ONLY duty of the pastor is to preach.

It's a lose-lose argument either way. If you can prove the only function of the pastor is to preach on Sundays, then please tell them to get out of the way so the rest of us can minister to the flock. Oh, and by the way, can you please leave the church keys under the mat. Thanks.

So….you aren’t willing to step up?