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The organization wasn't just handing out toys, it was handing out religious pamphlets and spreading the word of God. The fact a PUBLIC (government) school was funding this program was unconstitutional. Yes, there is separation of church and state.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Yes, the first amendment also states that the government can't prohibit the free exercise thereof. The students were still allowed to donate to the organization, as long as it wasn't being funded or organized by the school. And guess what, that's precisely what everyone did - and the secular group that called them out had no complaints.
But, let's assume this organization was in the wrong. You are aware that secular groups don't represent all atheists. In fact, many atheists had no problem with the charity!
Again, I said atheists generally want what is best for other people. You can always find examples where atheists do harm other people - but you can also find examples where religious people harm others as well! To take examples of a few violent, or wrong, minorities doesn't mean the majority in whole is wrong.
One atheist went into a church and beat the pastor into submission. One atheist group donated thousands of dollars to help pay for his medical bills and other expenses. And before you say, "Atheists are just trying to hide their evil", this same atheist group has donated to many other non-religious causes.
We also have Doctors Without Borders. It's not an atheist group, but it is a secular one. It's a wonderful charity and honestly I think it's a good place for both theists and atheists to shake hands and work together.
MSF USA | Medical aid where it is needed most. Independent. Neutral. Impartial.
I would also appreciate it if you addressed the rest of my post. And if anything I said changed your mind, let me know. I'm hoping you will at least admit you were wrong about Darwin and why he became an atheist. : |
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
Yes, the first amendment also states that the government can't prohibit the free exercise thereof. The students were still allowed to donate to the organization, as long as it wasn't being funded or organized by the school. And guess what, that's precisely what everyone did - and the secular group that called them out had no complaints.
But, let's assume this organization was in the wrong. You are aware that secular groups don't represent all atheists. In fact, many atheists had no problem with the charity!
Again, I said atheists generally want what is best for other people. You can always find examples where atheists do harm other people - but you can also find examples where religious people harm others as well! To take examples of a few violent, or wrong, minorities doesn't mean the majority in whole is wrong.
One atheist went into a church and beat the pastor into submission. One atheist group donated thousands of dollars to help pay for his medical bills and other expenses. And before you say, "Atheists are just trying to hide their evil", this same atheist group has donated to many other non-religious causes.
We also have Doctors Without Borders. It's not an atheist group, but it is a secular one. It's a wonderful charity and honestly I think it's a good place for both theists and atheists to shake hands and work together.
MSF USA | Medical aid where it is needed most. Independent. Neutral. Impartial.
I would also appreciate it if you addressed the rest of my post. And if anything I said changed your mind, let me know. I'm hoping you will at least admit you were wrong about Darwin and why he became an atheist. : |
Can you source the material? Because I had someone quote this completely asinine book that was completely wrong about Darwin in almost every way before.
Again, read what I posted - that's from Darwin's autobiography! Straight from the horse's mouth!
ADD: And I'm aware you are not intentionally spreading misinformation - but it definitely is misinformation, whether intentional or not.
As I said, not all atheists hold the same views. If you see a few bad eggs, know that most atheists probably don't think like them.
But, you did say you have found atheists lying in blogs. I believe this isn't the place to discuss those issues, but if you could PM the sources to me, I'll gladly look them over.
Again, read what I posted - that's from Darwin's autobiography! Straight from the horse's mouth!
ADD: And I'm aware you are not intentionally spreading misinformation - but it definitely is misinformation, whether intentional or not.
As I said, not all atheists hold the same views. If you see a few bad eggs, know that most atheists probably don't think like them.
But, you did say you have found atheists lying in blogs. I believe this isn't the place to discuss those issues, but if you could PM the sources to me, I'll gladly look them over.
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When is right right and when is wrong wrong? The atheist generally believes that what makes right or wrong is whatever they believe in any moment of time, which means what is right today is not necessarily right tomorrow.
A classic example is abortion. Margaret Sanger founder of Planned Parenthood, who ended the lives of 327,000 babies last year said that her motivation for abortion services was the concept of survival of the fittest atheists doctrine. Following through on this has made her a very rich woman. Apparently its major income is abortions (92%). Planning parenthood hardly gets a look in.
The mass killing of babies did not exist because it was wrong but then the atheists and secular humanists decided that it is all about a woman's right to choose so instead of it being wrong it became a right. Those that followed God's teaching have always believed that it is wrong to terminate the life of a baby in the womb because we are not left to the whims of who speaks the loudest. We have an absolute that we will not murder (10 commandments) and that means we will not murder full stop without exceptions.
The atheist however believes that murder is wrong when the death penalty is applied to a person who murdered someone else which shows that their idea of right and wrong is shifting sand so what that means is that right and wrong is a concept that they apply as it suits them.
That means that atheists do not believe in right and wrong. What that means is they believe in what is right and wrong if it fits in with their ideas...today.
A classic example is abortion. Margaret Sanger founder of Planned Parenthood, who ended the lives of 327,000 babies last year said that her motivation for abortion services was the concept of survival of the fittest atheists doctrine. Following through on this has made her a very rich woman. Apparently its major income is abortions (92%). Planning parenthood hardly gets a look in.
The mass killing of babies did not exist because it was wrong but then the atheists and secular humanists decided that it is all about a woman's right to choose so instead of it being wrong it became a right. Those that followed God's teaching have always believed that it is wrong to terminate the life of a baby in the womb because we are not left to the whims of who speaks the loudest. We have an absolute that we will not murder (10 commandments) and that means we will not murder full stop without exceptions.
The atheist however believes that murder is wrong when the death penalty is applied to a person who murdered someone else which shows that their idea of right and wrong is shifting sand so what that means is that right and wrong is a concept that they apply as it suits them.
That means that atheists do not believe in right and wrong. What that means is they believe in what is right and wrong if it fits in with their ideas...today.
That is what they keep saying when they are caught with their pants down so what that says is that we can't believe anything an atheist says because he might be a bad egg and who wants bad eggs.
In fact, how does one determine who is a bad egg and who isn't. An atheist saying another atheist is a bad egg is worthless as the atheist calling him a bad egg may be called a bad egg by the atheist being called a bad egg because they have different ideas.
If they don't hold the same views, then any view is up for grabs and what any atheists says is non sequitir.
In fact, how does one determine who is a bad egg and who isn't. An atheist saying another atheist is a bad egg is worthless as the atheist calling him a bad egg may be called a bad egg by the atheist being called a bad egg because they have different ideas.
If they don't hold the same views, then any view is up for grabs and what any atheists says is non sequitir.
You're referring to liberals (many of whom, are atheists - but not all).
Atheists, I will admit, often have a different idea of when life begins than what a Christian believes. But abortion is a very controversial topic and even atheists tend to be divided on the issue. But atheists don't generally flip flop on the idea, they tend to base their ideas on philosophical arguments and even scientific reasoning when possible. This is why some people are okay with abortion as long as there isn't a heart beat, or brain activity. This is a very difficult issue and atheists will generally be honest and admit that it's not cut and dry. There's a lot of disagreement of when life actually should be considered "started".
Let's look at morality that is more cut and dry. Most atheists believe murder, rape, theft, and slavery are all wrong. If there's no basis for morality when it comes to atheism, why is it so many atheists don't go around doing these things?
No, it means different atheists have different ideas of what right and wrong are. It does not mean an atheist changes their views just because they want to, or according to their mood.
Atheists, I will admit, often have a different idea of when life begins than what a Christian believes. But abortion is a very controversial topic and even atheists tend to be divided on the issue. But atheists don't generally flip flop on the idea, they tend to base their ideas on philosophical arguments and even scientific reasoning when possible. This is why some people are okay with abortion as long as there isn't a heart beat, or brain activity. This is a very difficult issue and atheists will generally be honest and admit that it's not cut and dry. There's a lot of disagreement of when life actually should be considered "started".
Let's look at morality that is more cut and dry. Most atheists believe murder, rape, theft, and slavery are all wrong. If there's no basis for morality when it comes to atheism, why is it so many atheists don't go around doing these things?
No, it means different atheists have different ideas of what right and wrong are. It does not mean an atheist changes their views just because they want to, or according to their mood.
Atheism isn't a religion which dictates what people should think or how they should act!
To be an atheist, you merely need to lack belief in a higher entity.
To say atheism is non-sequitur is to lack an understanding of what atheism is! Atheism isn't an organized group, it's a description.
Using your logic, some vegetarians want free-markets whereas others support socialism, therefore vegetarianism is non-sequitur and makes no sense. Clearly, you can see the flaw, right?
Atheism+ (Atheism Plus), is - more or less - a religion or a movement. Atheism+ does hold more standards of what people need to think and how they should act. Most atheists are not a part of Atheism+. In fact, most atheists don't associate themselves with the group.
You need to understand that atheists don't have to hold the same views. Atheists are merely people who don't believe in any gods. Some are republican, some are democratic, some support drug legalization, some don't. The same is true for theists. Not all theists hold the same views. The ONLY thing ALL theists have in common is a belief in a higher power. The ONLY thing ALL atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a higher power. THAT'S IT.
To be an atheist, you merely need to lack belief in a higher entity.
To say atheism is non-sequitur is to lack an understanding of what atheism is! Atheism isn't an organized group, it's a description.
Using your logic, some vegetarians want free-markets whereas others support socialism, therefore vegetarianism is non-sequitur and makes no sense. Clearly, you can see the flaw, right?
Atheism+ (Atheism Plus), is - more or less - a religion or a movement. Atheism+ does hold more standards of what people need to think and how they should act. Most atheists are not a part of Atheism+. In fact, most atheists don't associate themselves with the group.
You need to understand that atheists don't have to hold the same views. Atheists are merely people who don't believe in any gods. Some are republican, some are democratic, some support drug legalization, some don't. The same is true for theists. Not all theists hold the same views. The ONLY thing ALL theists have in common is a belief in a higher power. The ONLY thing ALL atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a higher power. THAT'S IT.
Lets assume that the atheists were wrong because they based their complaint on a false understanding of the First Amendment which they did.
I am not talking about secular groups. I am talking about THIS atheist group.
Atheists have no problem with the charity...no of course not that is why they threatened to sue the school. You really do come the old raw prawn don't you.
I am not talking about secular groups. I am talking about THIS atheist group.
Atheists have no problem with the charity...no of course not that is why they threatened to sue the school. You really do come the old raw prawn don't you.
Not all atheists belong to these "atheist churches" you keep bringing up. If there are atheist churches, it's merely a group of atheists trying to spread ant-religious views. Again, this doesn't describe all atheists.
I'm done debating this though - because you clearly don't understand what atheism actually is. I am aware that there are atheists who do this and that. I'm aware there are people who claim to be a part of "atheist churches". But I can't keep repeating myself - this doesn't apply to all atheists!
Some Muslims blow up innocent people. Muslims are theists. Therefore all theists blow people up, right? No. So stop applying the same logic to atheists.
I'm done debating this though - because you clearly don't understand what atheism actually is. I am aware that there are atheists who do this and that. I'm aware there are people who claim to be a part of "atheist churches". But I can't keep repeating myself - this doesn't apply to all atheists!
Some Muslims blow up innocent people. Muslims are theists. Therefore all theists blow people up, right? No. So stop applying the same logic to atheists.
I think you will find that you said atheists want what is best for other people. The word generally was not in the comment and as I have shown they don't want what is the best for other people. What they want is the best for other people as long as it does not include anything to do with christianity.
I notice that they are never suing Islamic organisations. I guess they don't want a brick though their windows or a gun up their noses.
I notice that they are never suing Islamic organisations. I guess they don't want a brick though their windows or a gun up their noses.
D
I would submit that there is actually more then one reason that people do not believe in God because you know..it's in the bible.
[h=3]2 Corinthians 4:4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[h=3]2 Corinthians 4:4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
