Is there such a thing as an atheist?

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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
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PERCEPI SEZ.........

Actually, atheists do believe in right and wrong. Christians believe right and wrong only exists because God created the two. Atheists believe right and wrong are the results of society. It's hard to fathom how mankind, as flawed as our knowledge may be, can be an authority of right or wrong at all. But we can clearly see an evolution in morality throughout history, and things that were unacceptable in the past are now acceptable today and vice-versa.

Atheists generally don't believe in "absolute" right and wrong. But too many people assume that if you don't believe in absolute right and wrong, that you must not believe in right and wrong at all. This is a false dichotomy. You don't have to believe right and wrong to be absolute to hold onto the notion of right and wrong.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe there is a reason for people to do good and to avoid doing bad, other than to please God?

Generally, good deeds are rewarded and bad deeds are punished. Sometimes, this isn't the case (at least, not here on earth). But, for the most part, it's just easier to be a good person than a bad one. Atheists tend not to steal because they don't want to be arrested, or they don't murder or rape because they don't want to have heir own throats slit or have themselves thrown in the slammer. Of course, this isn't the only reason atheists avoid doing bad things! Most atheists, like most people, do love others! They genuinely want the best for other people. Often, Christians have a hard time imagining why anyone would bother loving others without love being a divine gift. But - as many atheists have told me - love is just awesome! It generally makes you feel good! Helping others can provide benefits, such as rewards, but helping others can also be a reward in itself, because many people regardless of faith feel good when they make the lives of others better.

It might not make much sense to you, but before you rationalize that atheists are completely immoral people, take a step back and look at reality. Talk to an atheist about non-religious topics. Ask them what some of their proudest accomplishments are. Ask them about some of their proudest moments when helping others. If you know them well enough, ask them about people they love or people they once loved.

Atheists don't believe in morality, so there's nothing stopping them from killing everyone they know? Atheists hold funerals too, and when it's someone close, they cry.

.........not for nothing, but what/who you are trying to hold up as an atheist is an anti-Christ. And you have not grasped the concept I was speaking of in my comments, that being the end/ultimate result of atheist ideology..........the "pure" or "true" atheist. Your descriptions only serve to define an anti-Christ atheist wanna-be........
 
D

Denken

Guest
PERCEPI SEZ.........

Actually, atheists do believe in right and wrong. Christians believe right and wrong only exists because God created the two. Atheists believe right and wrong are the results of society. It's hard to fathom how mankind, as flawed as our knowledge may be, can be an authority of right or wrong at all. But we can clearly see an evolution in morality throughout history, and things that were unacceptable in the past are now acceptable today and vice-versa.

Atheists generally don't believe in "absolute" right and wrong. But too many people assume that if you don't believe in absolute right and wrong, that you must not believe in right and wrong at all. This is a false dichotomy. You don't have to believe right and wrong to be absolute to hold onto the notion of right and wrong.

Let me ask you this. Do you believe there is a reason for people to do good and to avoid doing bad, other than to please God?

Generally, good deeds are rewarded and bad deeds are punished. Sometimes, this isn't the case (at least, not here on earth). But, for the most part, it's just easier to be a good person than a bad one. Atheists tend not to steal because they don't want to be arrested, or they don't murder or rape because they don't want to have heir own throats slit or have themselves thrown in the slammer. Of course, this isn't the only reason atheists avoid doing bad things! Most atheists, like most people, do love others! They genuinely want the best for other people. Often, Christians have a hard time imagining why anyone would bother loving others without love being a divine gift. But - as many atheists have told me - love is just awesome! It generally makes you feel good! Helping others can provide benefits, such as rewards, but helping others can also be a reward in itself, because many people regardless of faith feel good when they make the lives of others better.

It might not make much sense to you, but before you rationalize that atheists are completely immoral people, take a step back and look at reality. Talk to an atheist about non-religious topics. Ask them what some of their proudest accomplishments are. Ask them about some of their proudest moments when helping others. If you know them well enough, ask them about people they love or people they once loved.

Atheists don't believe in morality, so there's nothing stopping them from killing everyone they know? Atheists hold funerals too, and when it's someone close, they cry.

.........not for nothing, but what/who you are trying to hold up as an atheist is an anti-Christ. And you have not grasped the concept I was speaking of in my comments, that being the end/ultimate result of atheist ideology..........the "pure" or "true" atheist. Your descriptions only serve to define an anti-Christ atheist wanna-be........
Beautifully said.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
I can't believe how ridiculous this thread has become.

Maybe I should generalise like some others on here and say that all Christians are like the Westboro Baptist Church. But i wouldn't do that because it's absurd and ignorant.
Apparently there are many things you "can't believe"................such as the Truth of the Living God for example. And why are you surprised by the content of this thread? After all, the subject matter (is there such a thing as an atheist) in and of itself is a ridiculous question.............Why? No offense to the Author of the OP, but since there is NO such thing as an atheist, that, in and of itself, renders any discussion of the idea ridiculous.
 
Sep 14, 2013
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I'm curious and lack knowledge in this area, so could an atheist please answer this.

An atheist chooses not to believe in God, because there is not sufficient proof that God exists? Is that correct?

Well, if an athiest bases his judgement on proof then wouldn't he have to have definitive proof that God doesn't exist in order to maintain his athiesm?...if that makes any sense....I might have just confused myself. Let me try again.

so Athiests don't believe in God because they lack proof, not because they have proof of God's non-existence.

So if athiests were truly honest with themselves, they would actually be agnostic, right?
Atheism is a rejection of a claim. The claim is that there is a god who created the earth etc. Theists believe it atheists don't. I don't believe it because there is not enough evidence to support the claim.

Btw, Are you agnostic towards Zeus? Or Odin?
 
Sep 14, 2013
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I'll happily give my true feelings on the matter and the word atheism if you like but it will probably cause offence and I don't want to do that.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
Atheism is a rejection of a claim. The claim is that there is a god who created the earth etc. Theists believe it atheists don't. I don't believe it because there is not enough evidence to support the claim.

Btw, Are you agnostic towards Zeus? Or Odin?

You do a fairly good job of defining an anti-Christ, but it is quite clear you have not clue about what an atheist is.

Atheism is THE REJECTION of ANY higher being/power/authority...............ANY........that is the "pure" or "true" atheist ideology........not just a rejection of the Living God. To accept that there IS a higher being/power/authority is to accept that there is a god...........while your god is not the Living God.........it is still your god. Anyone/anything a person submits themselves to is their god.

There is NO such thing as an atheist........not in the "purest" sense of the ideology........just anti-Christ's wannabes.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
113
I'll happily give my true feelings on the matter and the word atheism if you like but it will probably cause offence and I don't want to do that.
............are you even serious?.............no, really.......you take the time to bother to go through all the steps to join a CHRISTIAN web site.................FULLY KNOWING that you deny God, Jesus Christ, and Christianity........AND you are NOW WORRIED about BEING OFFENSIVE?

...........are you EVEN serious?............

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Sep 14, 2013
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I come here for discussion and interesting debate. The offensive comments and threats usually come from the Christians.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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well, i work in Hospital and also have to to with cancer patients which are sick to death. seldom the can speak about the truth of the sickness which is in, the try to hide in front of everybody and have the hope that death willnot come yet.
When I was 16 in me someting said, it can not be all what i expierienced. My father was working hard, had no time for Family. And i thought this should be life? I asked my mother she could gave me no answer. From childhood on I prayed to god and for me it was clesr that there is a god. But i also made me a own Picture from this god. Later on i met a Person and she told from Jesus. I told her i dont Need Jesus. I have my own believing to God. Seven years later in the year 87 I again met a Girl and she attractet me. I want to becomer her friend. But she said she cant, because i am not a Christian. I was shocked: what i am bapised as baby and believing in God. Why then i am not a Christian? She told me from the Bible. (You can read in John 1,12) If I believe in Jesus, then he will give me the rigth to be a child of God. means member of Gods Famil, ,means be a Christian. Then she took me to some youth Meeting in her church. On evening was the Theme Following Jesus. In this night the Lord Jesus opend my eyes and I rrealized that if i would die now, i will not come to god, becaause of my sin. And in my heart came the tought, if Jesus really died for my sin and he is really risen from the death then i will follow him then i will believe in Him. And I confessed all my sins which came in my mind. For me it was no difficult to believe what the bible is saying. And from this nicht on I become what we say a Christian. I know if i will die now, i will be with him in eternity. this is in me and i cant explain it. Of course i dont want to seperate from my wife ore children and i fear the way of dying. But I have confidence where I am then. And this is the good News for what Jesus send his disciples into whole world: That he loves you so much that he gives his life for you, that you will not go lost, if you believe in him, but have eternal life (John 3, 16) I pray that you let him into your hard, to find a peace which nobody can give to you and will stay in eternity
 
Feb 16, 2014
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Beautifully said.
What part are you referring to?

He failed to properly quote me so it's hard to tell which part of the statement was mine and which one was his.

.........not for nothing, but what/who you are trying to hold up as an atheist is an anti-Christ. And you have not grasped the concept I was speaking of in my comments, that being the end/ultimate result of atheist ideology..........the "pure" or "true" atheist. Your descriptions only serve to define an anti-Christ atheist wanna-be........
That part of the statement is his. Not mine. Everything before that statement - mine.
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
22
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I come here for discussion and interesting debate. The offensive comments and threats usually come from the Christians.
Yes, people, even Christian people can be offensive. Sin is offensive to God and to persons harmed by the sins of others. Jesus Christ came to save sinners from a pattern of ongoing sin and from the wrath of God not yet revealed. God loves sinners and offers them mercy and pardon. But, Jesus wants them to repent, believe, follow.

Jesus said words like: Repent for the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven are at hand. (Gospel books of Mark and Matthew).

"Repent" is a humbling (and probably offensive) message that people generally don't like to hear. Jesus said it. John the Baptist said it. The Apostles Peter and Paul said: "Repent". Others continue to proclaim: "Repent." People don't like it but the message is right.

The gospel of the kingdom of God can be offensive because someone will be King in that kingdom and it won't be us.
 
Aug 25, 2013
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Here is one for you avowed atheists: Read Pascals Wager, if you haven't already, and tell me what you think about it.
Pascal's Wager gives no evidence for the existence of God at all. It is simply a proposal that it is safer to believe in God and be wrong than not to believe and suffer the consequences should the deity actually exist. It's a scare tactic, but one that might also be used by Jews, or Muslims, or anyone else with a deity to promote; but let's be honest. It is only the Christian god that Pascal was interested in promoting with his wager. So, which Christian faith does the wager suggest one adopt? The faith representing the most vengeful god of course, for that is the god we should most want to mollify. I think, then, based on Pascal's Wager we would should all hedge our bets by becoming Westboro Baptists.

Your thoughts?
 
Aug 25, 2013
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IntoTheVoid said:
I'll happily give my true feelings on the matter and the word atheism if you like but it will probably cause offence and I don't want to do that.
............are you even serious?.............no, really.......you take the time to bother to go through all the steps to join a CHRISTIAN web site.................FULLY KNOWING that you deny God, Jesus Christ, and Christianity........AND you are NOW WORRIED about BEING OFFENSIVE?

...........are you EVEN serious?............
P_Rehbein, are you serious? You seem to be saying that an atheist joining a Christian forum is offensive to you. Is this correct? Are you showing your true colours?
 

nl

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2011
933
22
18
well, i work in Hospital and also have to to with cancer patients which are sick to death. seldom the can speak about the truth of the sickness which is in, the try to hide in front of everybody and have the hope that death willnot come yet.
When I was 16 in me someting said, it can not be all what i expierienced. My father was working hard, had no time for Family. And i thought this should be life? I asked my mother she could gave me no answer. From childhood on I prayed to god and for me it was clesr that there is a god. But i also made me a own Picture from this god. Later on i met a Person and she told from Jesus. I told her i dont Need Jesus. I have my own believing to God. Seven years later in the year 87 I again met a Girl and she attractet me. I want to becomer her friend. But she said she cant, because i am not a Christian. I was shocked: what i am bapised as baby and believing in God. Why then i am not a Christian? She told me from the Bible. (You can read in John 1,12) If I believe in Jesus, then he will give me the rigth to be a child of God. means member of Gods Famil, ,means be a Christian. Then she took me to some youth Meeting in her church. On evening was the Theme Following Jesus. In this night the Lord Jesus opend my eyes and I rrealized that if i would die now, i will not come to god, becaause of my sin. And in my heart came the tought, if Jesus really died for my sin and he is really risen from the death then i will follow him then i will believe in Him. And I confessed all my sins which came in my mind. For me it was no difficult to believe what the bible is saying. And from this nicht on I become what we say a Christian. I know if i will die now, i will be with him in eternity. this is in me and i cant explain it. Of course i dont want to seperate from my wife ore children and i fear the way of dying. But I have confidence where I am then. And this is the good News for what Jesus send his disciples into whole world: That he loves you so much that he gives his life for you, that you will not go lost, if you believe in him, but have eternal life (John 3, 16) I pray that you let him into your hard, to find a peace which nobody can give to you and will stay in eternity
Thank you for sharing your testimony and exhortation. ;)
 
Sep 14, 2013
915
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............are you even serious?.............no, really.......you take the time to bother to go through all the steps to join a CHRISTIAN web site.................FULLY KNOWING that you deny God, Jesus Christ, and Christianity.......AND you are NOW WORRIED about BEING OFFENSIVE?

...........are you EVEN serious?............

View attachment 72831
Hey at least I don't threaten people with eternal torture if they don't have the same belief as me. Nor am I aligned with any authority who has a 'Believe or Burn' policy.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,590
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P_Rehbein, are you serious? You seem to be saying that an atheist joining a Christian forum is offensive to you. Is this correct? Are you showing your true colours?

Not offensive. Just curious.
Think about it a sec. What would be the incentive for someone who avows no Creator to spend a goodly amount of their time in a forum populated by Believers who not only espouse a Creator, but know that He sent His only Son to die for our sins?

Is it to try and convince others to believe what you do? And if so to what end?
Is it to try and reassure yourself that your'e not making a terrible mistake?
Is it because YOU really want to be convinced that there is a God?
Or is it just as simple that you want to try and hurt people by attempting to confuse young, impressionable Christians?

You probably can't even be honest with yourself as to why you would come to a CHRISTIAN forum.

Well, I hope and pray it is for reason #3, and the Lord convicts your heart to the point that you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior!
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,590
9,108
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Hey at least I don't threaten people with eternal torture if they don't have the same belief as me. Nor am I aligned with any authority who has a 'Believe or Burn' policy.
Doesn't answer the question as to WHY you are here on Saturday, when there are about a billion other things you could be doing.
 
Feb 16, 2014
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To be fair, Christians don't generally threaten to send others to hell. It's like saying, "There's a bus and it's about to run you over!" and having the person respond, "Don't threaten me!"

Of course, it is disheartening to hear something along the lines of, "You'll learn when the bus runs you over! That will teach you!"
 
Aug 25, 2013
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IntoTheVoid said:
Atheism is a rejection of a claim. The claim is that there is a god who created the earth etc. Theists believe it atheists don't. I don't believe it because there is not enough evidence to support the claim.
You do a fairly good job of defining an anti-Christ, but it is quite clear you have not clue about what an atheist is.
I completely disagree with you P_Rehbein. Although Void's definition is not the most complete description of atheism I have ever seen, I see nothing in it to fault.

p_rehbein said:
Atheism is THE REJECTION of ANY higher being/power/authority...
Yes, this is correct. This is essentially what Void told you.

p_rehbein said:
............ANY........that is the "pure" or "true" atheist ideology...
Whoa, there Tex. Careful, this is where you fall off the horse. You are assuming there is an atheist ideology despite being told by every atheist who has ever graced your presence that no such ideology exists.

Let's clarify this right now. Please define an atheist ideology.

p_rehbein said:
.....not just a rejection of the Living God. To accept that there IS a higher being/power/authority is to accept that there is a god...........while your god is not the Living God.........it is still your god.
Neither Void, nor myself, nor any atheist I have ever met accepts the existence of any higher power. What in blazes are you going on about! Atheists do not believe in the existence of any god of any sort! Stating otherwise makes you sound..., well, I won't say it.

p_rehbein said:
Anyone/anything a person submits themselves to is their god
Wait a minute P_Rehebein, I get it now! If as a Catholic I submit to the authority of Pope Francis then Pope Francis is my god! If in my hometown I submit to the authority of the local chief of police, then the chief of police is my god! That's brilliant! So as an atheist I am submitting to Darwin and his teachings and that is tantamount to accepting Charles Darwin as my god and his theory as my holy writ! I am so excited to have finally understood you.

Oh, wait a minute. I think there's a problem. My sister-in-law is a devout Catholic (she hardly ever misses church), but she has always ignored the pope's proscriptions against birth control. As devout Christians would never willfully ignore the proscriptions of their god then my sister-in-law probably does not really perceive the pope as her god. Am I right? The chief of police in my hometown was recently involved in an embarrassing scandal. As I do not believe my god would do such a thing I am afraid I might be forced to concede that the chief is really more human that he is god-like. Now, what about Darwin? There are rumours going about that he was fully human and while his theory seems to have been correct, as far as he took it, there are large gaps and omissions in it that he possessed no awareness of and that we've had to make adjustments for. Knowing, P_Rehbein, that you would never make such admissions for God, you might be willing to concede with me, that if any atheist (myself included) ever thought Charles Darwin was a god and his theory holy script, that you will allow all of us to humbly recant such a preposterous error.

p_rehbein said:
There is NO such thing as an atheist....
Well, I guess we are all just figments of your imagination. :)