is this Messianic?

[PS]

so.. you're mad that i'm not a respector of persons? like God is not either?
gee and i even called him monsignor, and apologized.


but please tell me about how that is relevant to the text...?

I am disappointed you reject the teaching of the eminent scholar Adam Clarke, LL.D. F.S.A. M.R.I.A.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i get later days because it mentions those who come later. it is common to measure time or to speak of time in days.

i don't see the word 'son' anywhere but in some man's commentary.

Trof points out that the LXX and masoretic texts are different here - not able to research that from my phone. but maybe this is why some translations have 'second youth' and some just have the youth who will stand in his ((the kings?)) stead. if there are two youths there's no indication the first one reigns only the second. so I don't see three rulers at all.

how do you get 3 kings?

Excuse me I meant two kings.

1st king

13 Better a poor and wise youth
Than an old and foolish king who will be admonished no more.
14 For he comes out of prison to be king,
Although [a]he was born poor in his kingdom.


2nd king

15 I saw all the living who walk under the sun;
They were with the second youth who stands in his place.
16 There was no end of all the people [b]over whom he was made king;

As for later

Yet those who come afterward will not rejoice in him.
Surely this also is vanity and grasping for the wind.

Nothing here would cause me to see later days, Later here is used to mean those who come after the successor. The second youth. The son of the king who came out of prison to gain a kingdom

Jesus was shunned by his own people and shuneed buy the world. Even in the later days, the world will shun him, It will not be until he returns that his kingdom will be earthwide. And he will not be shunned.

 

[NayborBear]

lol, you must be looking at verse 11.

So I admired the dead, who have already died, more than the living, who are still alive. But better than either of them is the one who has not yet existed, who has not seen the evil activity that is done under the sun. ​

(Ecclesiastes 4:2-3)​

sounds like a good time?

if Solomon were around today, doctors would drug him senseless with antidepressants




Trof said he sees a picture of Saul & David in this, too - that's insightful of both of you IMO. we know David prefigures Christ, and so the same motif of type is repeated in Jesus. the Bible is fractal, in this way, over and over and over the same 'strange attractor' appears, the image of the Messiah, the image of the invisible God, being revealed to man.
my opinion ((which i can support with scripture)) is that all the scripture testifies of Christ, and this chapter is also scripture - so i love so much what Oldthennew said, "of course" it is Messianic -- it all is. we just have to search out how

Yeah? Yer probably right about Dr.'s invoking the 25th amendment in being "unfit" to be King!

As far as your last statement? I have heard many a man, on multiple occasions teaching/preaching from a pulpit, trying in the "connecting" of dots. To the degree/s, that after the sermon/lesson was finished? I seen so many walking out with that "glazed over" look in their eyes. Myself included. Like, "What did he just say?" One comes out of such a "session", more baffled and confused, then before one went in!

"Just another wasted Sunday!"

Only good thing about sessions such as these? Is it gives motivation for a "truer" believer, in a more fuller in depth studying concerning Christ, and He who sent Him!

For the rest? I reckon they enjoy the "mass hypnosis", eh?

 

[posthuman]

Jesus was shunned by his own people and shuneed buy the world. Even in the later days, the world will shun him, It will not be until he returns that his kingdom will be earthwide. And he will not be shunned

what happens at the end of the millennium?

I'm not clear on eschatology and stay out of discussions about it for the most part. but don't the people rise up against him? at least, in some views?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what happens at the end of the millennium?

I'm not clear on eschatology and stay out of discussions about it for the most part. but don't the people rise up against him? at least, in some views?

A small uprising immediately cut down, it would be a stretch

 

[posthuman]

Only good thing about sessions such as these? Is it gives motivation for a "truer" believer, in a more fuller in depth studying concerning Christ, and He who sent Him!

i'm not a preacher
let's have a Bible discussion about these verses

 

[posthuman]

Excuse me I meant two kings.

it's nothing,
excuse me if i appeared short i didn't have a lot of time to talk earlier
i can do better now, altho, i'm mostly going to ask a bunch of questions..

1st king

13 Better a poor and wise youth
Than an old and foolish king who will be admonished no more.
14 For he comes out of prison to be king,
Although [a]he was born poor in his kingdom.

who comes out of prison to be king?
the youth or the old king who is no longer able to be taught?
was the old king wise in his youth? and poor? and imprisoned?
is it that he was better off, when he was young and wise, than he is now that he's an old, stubborn fool - even though he's king?

or is it a youth that supplants him, from humble birth, not one of the old king's sons - and counted as a criminal?
which one was in prison, and why?
if it's the youth - is it his kingdom he was born poor in? or in the old kings?

2nd king

15 I saw all the living who walk under the sun;
They were with the second youth who stands in his place.
16 There was no end of all the people [b]over whom he was made king;

who is made king over an innumerable number of people?
this is more people than the king whose place he stands, right?
when was he made king? how?
if he's the son of the old king, and he was the one in prison, why?
who imprisons their own son?
what was the sentence? the charge?

As for later

Yet those who come afterward will not rejoice in him.
Surely this also is vanity and grasping for the wind.

i said "later/latter days" because this is talking about "afterward"
what's "afterward" ?
if we're talking about a king who rules over "all the living that walk under the sun" are we talking about all creatures?
is this euphemistic for all mankind? hyperbole meaning only a large number of people?
if it's literal, "all the living" then how long is the reign of the youth?
who "comes afterward" ?
people/living creatures not under the reign of the youth or under the reign of the youth?
why don't they rejoice in him? does anyone? when?

Nothing here would cause me to see later days, Later here is used to mean those who come after the successor. The second youth. The son of the king who came out of prison to gain a kingdom

"afterward" must mean at least at a time after the youth is named king over all the living who walk under the sun, a people of whom there is no end.
are "those who come afterward" a line of successive rulers, stretching as far as anyone could guess, none of whom remember the old foolish king, nor the young wise one?
people doomed to repeat history because they don't remember it?

why does history repeat itself?
is God telling us something? lol

Jesus was shunned by his own people and shuneed buy the world. Even in the later days, the world will shun him, It will not be until he returns that his kingdom will be earthwide. And he will not be shunned.

go back with me to when Israel was first grumbling for a ((human)) king for a sec..

​

The LORD said to Samuel, "Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being king over them."
(1 Samuel 8:7) ​

if the youth/son who is king over all the living under the sun, who was imprisoned and poor in his own kingdom, is Jesus, then He's been king all along, and suffered in His patience the people to set up their own kings - kings who grew foolish and hard-hearted as they grew old. and He came in the flesh, born as a man, poor, and was rejected by His people, and imprisoned by them. but as He walked out of that prison, He walked to the cross, and out of a tomb, establishing His dominion over all things, gathering to Himself in His kingdom a great multitude that no man can number.
afterward, people came, and still didn't rejoice in Him.

((if that makes sense))

i don't mind if you think i'm nuts, dude.
but, i kinda see this picture in these verses, and it's the kind of thing i like to make threads about. that's all

 

[posthuman]

LL.D. F.S.A. M.R.I.A.

what do those letters mean?

 

[posthuman]

A small uprising immediately cut down, it would be a stretch

"small" is a stretch

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth — Gog and Magog — and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city He loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
(Revelation 20:7-9)​

 

[posthuman]

I have heard many a man, on multiple occasions teaching/preaching from a pulpit, trying in the "connecting" of dots. To the degree/s, that after the sermon/lesson was finished? I seen so many walking out with that "glazed over" look in their eyes. Myself included. Like, "What did he just say?" One comes out of such a "session", more baffled and confused, then before one went in!

"Just another wasted Sunday!"

Only good thing about sessions such as these? Is it gives motivation for a "truer" believer, in a more fuller in depth studying concerning Christ, and He who sent Him!

For the rest? I reckon they enjoy the "mass hypnosis", eh?

i think a situation like this has 3 possible explanations:

• preacher is nuts
• preacher is poor at explaining things
• congregation is poor at understanding things

 

[garee]

The 1st comes out of prison or prisons (did Christ come out of prisons?

Because God is not a man as us. In a spiritual sense the Son of man, Jesus did come out of a prison. This is seeing he lived in a corruptible body of death that aged leading toward destruction and the return to the rudiments of this world in the likeness of sinful flesh.

Romans 8:3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

God is not a man as us. Salvation is not configured after his birth as if flesh and blood could enter the kingdom of God.

The Son of man, Jesus as that seen was set free and according to Romans he was declared to be the Son of God that speaks of his unseen eternal being, according the unseen spirit of holiness. His flesh profited for nothing . We walk by faith, the eternal not seen and not by sight, the temporal seen

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.