Is this the lie that started many false teachings?

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ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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#41
I'm not, man. Luke 21:20 and 21:24 are part of the OD, read them carefully.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

These are part of the Olivet Discourse but unrelated to 70AD. These verses are going to happen in the Great Tribulation where the city is spiritually desolated not physically destroyed. The antichrist will rule from Jerusalem so he would not want to destroy it. The two prophets will lie dead in the street of Jerusalem which further proves the city and it's streets still exist in the Great Tribulation. In fact, Revelation shows Jerusalem suffering 1/3 destruction and that's from an earthquake at the second coming not damage done by the armies of the antichrist.
 
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#42
Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

These are part of the Olivet Discourse but unrelated to 70AD. These verses are going to happen in the Great Tribulation where the city is spiritually desolated not physically destroyed. The antichrist will rule from Jerusalem so he would not want to destroy it. The two prophets will lie dead in the street of Jerusalem which further proves the city and it's streets still exist in the Great Tribulation. In fact, Revelation shows Jerusalem suffering 1/3 destruction and that's from an earthquake at the second coming not damage done by the armies of the antichrist.
Nothing suggests it's gonna be "spiritual" instead of "physical". If it was just spiritual, then it was already spiritually desolate. Also how about "fall by the edge of the sword" and "led away captive into all nations"? Is Russia or China or the EU gonna invade Israel?
 

ewq1938

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#43
Nothing suggests it's gonna be "spiritual" instead of "physical".
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

It is a spiritual desolation. The city will not be destroyed as you can see even the streets remain intact.

If it was just spiritual, then it was already spiritually desolate. Also how about "fall by the edge of the sword" and "led away captive into all nations"? Is Russia or China or the EU gonna invade Israel?
The antichrist will occupy Jerusalem but he will be welcomed as the Messiah. The ones that "fall by the edge of the sword" and "led away captive into all nations" are Christians.

Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Mar 13:12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 
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#44
The antichrist will occupy Jerusalem but he will be welcomed as the Messiah. The ones that "fall by the edge of the sword" and "led away captive into all nations" are Christians.
Jesus told the disciples to run for the mountains when they saw the signs - BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE. If they were already arrested and delivered up to the council, how did they still get to run?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

It is a spiritual desolation. The city will not be destroyed as you can see even the streets remain intact.
You don't know that. This "great city" could be Babylon the Great. Most people assume that's Jerusalem, but Jesus was crucified OUTSIDE Jerusalem. They made sure of that so the blood won't "defile the land".
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
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#45
This:

The Historicist School which sees the book of Revelation as largely predictive of actual events to occur throughout the history of Christianity from the time of John until the return of Jesus Christ.
Nothing in the end is new, it's just on a larger scale than ever before.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#47
No, the entire Olivet Discourse is about the end times. He starts with signs and events that happen before the Great Tribulation and tells us the Great Tribulation is near, then the events of the Great Tribulation, and he ends with his second coming and gathering of the saints and then gives multiple examples of what it will be like when he returns. Not a word of it is a reference to 70AD.
"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." (v.34).

Either Jesus was confused, or lying, or saying exactly what He meant.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#48
You don't know that. This "great city" could be Babylon the Great. Most people assume that's Jerusalem, but Jesus was crucified OUTSIDE Jerusalem. They made sure of that so the blood won't "defile the land".
Revelation 11:8 says, "Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

Jesus may not have been crucified "in" Jerusalem, but He was crucified at Jerusalem, and not anywhere else.
 
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#49
"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." (v.34).

Either Jesus was confused, or lying, or saying exactly what He meant.
"This generation" is referring to the church, not the current generation of Isralites. "Until all these things have happened" is the same is "Until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled". Luke is being more specific on that. Look at the parable of the fig tree, that damn tree was cursed and withered away, how is it budding again?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#50
"This generation" is referring to the church, not the current generation of Isralites.
On what do you base this assertion? Jesus wasn't speaking to the church; He was speaking to the disciples in about 30 AD. Look at the other uses of "generation" in the gospels, and tell me whether they refer to "the church".
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#51
Jesus told the disciples to run for the mountains when they saw the signs - BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE. If they were already arrested and delivered up to the council, how did they still get to run?
On can run and get caught later. The mountains are not that far away.

This "great city" could be Babylon the Great.
It's Jerusalem. Babylon is a symbolic city and woman.

Most people assume that's Jerusalem, but Jesus was crucified OUTSIDE Jerusalem.
Was he crucified in Babylon? Outside the city is still the city because of how close it is.
 
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#52
Revelation 11:8 says, "Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.

Jesus may not have been crucified "in" Jerusalem, but He was crucified at Jerusalem, and not anywhere else.
I was arguing with that guy that Luke 21:20-24 was about 70 AD when the city was physically destroyed instead of "spiritually desolate". Even if it is Jerusalem in Rev. 11:8, it's unrelated to Luke 21:20-24.
 
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#53
On what do you base this assertion? Jesus wasn't speaking to the church; He was speaking to the disciples in about 30 AD. Look at the other uses of "generation" in the gospels, and tell me whether they refer to "the church".
On the basis of the CONTEXT, which is the parable of the fig tree. In the disciples' generation that damn tree was CURSED (Matt. 21:18-22), not budding.
 
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#54
On can run and get caught later. The mountains are not that far away.
No they won't, because Jerusalem was being sieged by armies when they had already run into the mountains. That's how the comparison with Lot from Sodom applies - Lot and his family fled right before Sodom was nuked.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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#55
No they won't, because Jerusalem was being sieged by armies when they had already run into the mountains. That's how the comparison with Lot from Sodom applies - Lot and his family fled right before Sodom was nuked.
Jerusalem isn't going to be attacked in the Great Tribulation. It is the capital of the AC's beast system. All of this is future anyways.
 
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#56
Jerusalem isn't going to be attacked in the Great Tribulation. It is the capital of the AC's beast system. All of this is future anyways.
Nonetheless it was surrounded by armies, and its inhabitants were slaughtered. This was actually prophesied in Dan 9:26-27 as well.
 

ewq1938

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#57
Nonetheless it was surrounded by armies, and its inhabitants were slaughtered.
Yet Christ did not say the armies would destroy the city, nor does he mention the temple in the Olivet Discourse. He also said one generation would see "all these things" and two of those things is the second coming and gathering of the saints by angels. Since those have not happened, none of it did.

The Olivet Discourse is not about 70AD.
 
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#58
Yet Christ did not say the armies would destroy the city, nor does he mention the temple in the Olivet Discourse. He also said one generation would see "all these things" and two of those things is the second coming and gathering of the saints by angels. Since those have not happened, none of it did.

The Olivet Discourse is not about 70AD.
Actually He did. "Abomination of desolation" is a reference of Daniel 11:31 - "And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation." Unless you believe in the "Third Temple" political thriller, there's neither daily sacrifice nor "sanctuary fortress” in modern day Israel.
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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#59
Actually He did. "Abomination of desolation" is a reference of Daniel 11:31 - "And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation."

Defiling the sanctuary is not tearing it apart. Again we see a spiritual desolation taking place.
 
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#60
Defiling the sanctuary is not tearing it apart. Again we see a spiritual desolation taking place.
There has not been a "sanctuary" since 70 AD, unless you called the mosque on the temple mount a "sanctuary" where it is off limit for the Jews.