Is Ultimate Release from Hell Possible?

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MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
388
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43
#1
Does the NT allow the possibility of ultimate postmortem release from Hell? I'm raising this issue because of another thread started by someone who finds himself in a battle to retain his faith over the difficulty of believing in eternal damnation. This thread will focus on this issue from the perspective of Jesus, Peter, Paul, and the Book of Revelation in that order.

Knowledge of the original languages is important for understanding Scripture, partly because there is often no one-to-one exact English equivalent for Hebrew and Greek theological terms. Important examples are the Hebrew ("olam") and Greek ("aionios") words often translated "eternal." In fact, both words can mean "for a long time" and "enduring." Thus, in the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs the death of Isaac can be described as "enduring (aionios) sleep" with the implication of ultimate postmortem survival. Consider these 3 NT examples where "aionios" does not mean "eternal:
(a) " that you should receive him (Onesimus) forever (aionion"--better translated "for good"--Philemon 25)."
(b) the use of aionios" in the plural to mean "long ages" in Romans 16:25 and 1 Timothy 1:9
(C) the frequent use of "aionios" by the Greek Septuagint to translate the Hebrew "olam, which means "for a long time"

(1) JESUS' TEACHING ABOUT GEHENNA:

The ancient Jewish concept of "Gehenna" is inspired by the ancient use of the valley of Hinnom by an idolatrous cult that passed children through fire. Ancient Aramaic theological terms like "Gehenna" derive their meaning from their use in the contemporary Palestinian culture. Jesus’ concept of Gehenna must be viewed against the background of ancient rabbinic perspectives, which are nicely summarized with copious documentation in the excellent Anchor Bible Dictionary article [Vol. 2]: “Most of those [Jews] who enter it [Gehenna] in the intermediate state would be released from it…It was a fiery purgatory for those Jews whose merits and transgressions balanced one another who would afterward be admitted to Paradise. Often the punishment of Gehenna was restricted to 12 months.”

Jesus’ parable of the unforgiving servant uses a debtor’s prison as an image for the limited duration of punishment in Gehenna: “And in his anger his lord handed him over to be tortured until he would pay his entire debt (Matthew 18:34).” Here the debt’s payment and ultimate release remain a possibility. How the debt might be paid off remains unclear, but expiation and purgation remain possibilities. Remember, “debt” (Aramaic: “chob”) is the Aramaic term for “sin” that inspires this image of Hell as a debtor’s prison.

More controversial is the related possibility that Matthew 5:25-26 refers to Gehenna:

“Make friends quickly with your accuser while you are on the way to court with him, or your accuser may hand you over to the Judge, and the Judge to the guard, and you will be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will never get out until you pay the last penny.”

The symbolic interpretation of the prison as Gehenna seems preferable for 4 reasons:
(1) This saying makes little sense if taken literally. Jesus would in effect be saying: “Let me tell you how to beat the rap of criminal charges. Wait till you and your accuser are actually on the road on the way to court and then kiss up to him.”
(2) "Jesus always applies the formula “Truly I say to you” to our relationship with God, never to a purely secular issue like a court proceeding.
(3) In the first 2 centuries this saying is always interpreted symbolically.
(4) In the Lukan context (12:57-59) the saying is located in an eschatological context.
That said, Matthew 18:34 removes the necessity of invoking this saying to establish Jesus’ image of Gehenna as a debtor’s prison.

Jesus’ image of “few stripes” as an image of punishment in Gehenna implies a finite limit and therefore ultimate release: “The slave who did not know and did what deserved a beating will be beaten with few stripes (Luke 12:48).”

As for Jesus’ view that people who don’t follow Him can be saved, Mark 9:40 is certainly relevant: “Whoever is not against us is for us.”
 
S

Stranger36147

Guest
#2
Yes, there is this doctrine that ultimately all will be saved and with God and that no one is truly lost forever. Which....I'll be honest and say that does sound good to me, but it definitely won't fly with certain Christians.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,416
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#3
Yes, there is this doctrine that ultimately all will be saved and with God and that no one is truly lost forever. Which....I'll be honest and say that does sound good to me, but it definitely won't fly with certain Christians.
Um, no there is not

Eternal mens eternal

Anyone who thinks they will get out of hell. Will get a rude awakening after being ther for a few thousand years and realiseing it will nto happen.
 
S

Stranger36147

Guest
#4
Um, no there is not

Eternal mens eternal

Anyone who thinks they will get out of hell. Will get a rude awakening after being ther for a few thousand years and realiseing it will nto happen.
Doctrine, idea. Whatever you want to call it. But it's there and some people do believe that. I've heard it called "the reconciliation of all things."
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,617
4,516
113
#5
No dont think so this idea of postmortem saving.
JEsus explained there was no way, the chasm was too wide. He told the story of Lazarus in paradise and and the rich man in hell. And he did say even if someone came back from the dead (as Lazarus did, and Jesus did), some people would not listen.

Another parable was the ten virgins, five wise and five foolish. The five foolish didnt trim their lamps, and they were locked out. They couldnt get it..the door was shut.

In the NT there isnt any indication of the catholic idea of a postmortem purgatory. The refiners fire is our trials and tribulation we have on earth now, such as persecution and other diffiuclties from attacks by the enemy, its not postmortem.

This is why its imperative to tell the gospel to those who are living! Why would you tell it to those who are dead, when they cant even hear you?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
38,160
15,101
113
#6
Hell is not the lake of fire. Hell is the holding place of the dead
until the final judgement following the resurrection of all.
Hell is going to be thrown into the lake of fire.
Death is the last enemy to be abolished.
It does into the lake of fire also.


Jesus holds the keys to life and death :love:
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
12,617
4,516
113
#7
I know some people really want to believe that after you dead Jesus saves you, but you needed to have confessed and believed in Jesus before you died. It could be with your last breath like the repentent thief did on the cross but you need to have believed while you got breath in your body. The other guy on the cross who was crucified next to Jesus did not. He mocked him instead. Do you think that guy was saved?
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,416
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#8
Doctrine, idea. Whatever you want to call it. But it's there and some people do believe that. I've heard it called "the reconciliation of all things."
Jesus reconciled all things to himself at the cross

Whoever does not recieve that gift by death, has no hope of ever being released. Their time to repent has come and gone
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,636
10,366
113
75
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#9
I know some people really want to believe that after you dead Jesus saves you, but you needed to have confessed and believed in Jesus before you died. It could be with your last breath like the repentent thief did on the cross but you need to have believed while you got breath in your body. The other guy on the cross who was crucified next to Jesus did not. He mocked him instead. Do you think that guy was saved?
Let me ask you this: Is it your place to decide the final fate of the second thief or anyone else? :cool:
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
7,786
1,502
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#10
Knowledge of the original languages is important for understanding Scripture, partly because […]

Consider these 3 NT examples where "aionios" does not mean "eternal:
(a) " that you should receive him (Onesimus) forever (aionion"--better translated "for good"--Philemon 25)."
(b) the use of aionios" in the plural to mean "long ages" in Romans 16:25 and 1 Timothy 1:9
(C) the frequent use of "aionios" by the Greek Septuagint to translate the Hebrew "olam, which means "for a long time"
I've noticed the studies put forth on this subject always seem to leave out one of the biblical phrases (relating to this word):

"unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" (what we call "forever" / "eternity" / "eternal" / endlessness, etc),

found in the following verses:

--Galatians 1:5; Philippians 4:20; 1 Timothy 1:17; 2 Timothy 4:18; Hebrews 13:21 ("[to Whom] be glory _____" ; "be honour and glory _____" )

--1 Peter 4:11; 1 Peter 5:11; Revelation 1:6 ("to Him/Whom be glory/praise/dominion ____")

--Revelation 1:18; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:14; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 15:7 ("I am alive ____" ; "[Him] Who/that liveth ____" ; "God, Who liveth ____" )

--Revelation 5:13; Revelation 7:12; Revelation 11:15; Revelation 22:5 ("and unto the Lamb ___" ; "be unto our God ____" ; "and He shall reign ____" ; "and they shall reign ___" )


[which ones of the above look to be saying something like "long-but-limited-time-period"?]

--[and in the 3 verses usually "under question"] Revelation 14:11 [regarding those who receive the mark and worship the beast and his image]; Revelation 19:3 [regarding the judgment of "the great whore"]; and... Revelation 20:10 [regarding "the devil" and where "the beast and the false prophet" already are/have been for the 1000 yrs [and "These two cast ALIVE into" Rev19:20] before Satan/the devil is thereafter "cast into the lake of fire" where, it says, "they [plural] shall be tormented day and night [that is, continually] ____"; and the same place that [of "the dead [/unsaved of all times]" ] "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into" also (see Psalm 69:28 where TWO DISTINCT things/actions [/writings] are named)]

[21x total, I believe]

____________

Now, as far as SEQUENCE goes (relating):

--Isaiah 24:21-22[23] has TWO "PUNISH" words SEPARATED [time-wise] BY a specific time-period... so it goes like: "1) shall be PUNISHED... and after many days... 2) shall be PUNISHED" ; which correlates precisely with...

--Revelation 19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5 [regarding the time of His Second Coming to the earth (note: not our Rapture)]... then [sequentially] the 1000 yrs [i.e. "and after MANY DAYS"/"the rest of the DEAD lived not again UNTIL the 1000 yrs were finished" (i.e. at the GWTj)]... then [sequentially] the Rev20:11-15 GWTj [regarding "the DEAD [/unsaved of all times]" who had NOT been "resurrected" at the time ALL SAINTS were done being "resurrected" IN TIME FOR the MK age (before it commenced, 1000 yrs before this point in the chronology)]


The last 3 (of the phrases "unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" ^ [of 21x total] ) all pertain to "judgments" taking place at [/surrounding] that 1st of TWO "PUNISH" words (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY MK age [singular], except for "the devil/Satan" who will be put into the "prison" for the 1000 yrs, per Rev20:7 [still a "PUNISH"]), which is the first step (if you will) of the final carrying out of the sentence (at the later GWTj [2nd "PUNISH" word in Isa24:21-22(23)], re: "the DEAD [/unsaved/unrighteous]" of all times)
 

MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
388
144
43
#11
Notice how Fundmentalists duck the many Bible texts that imply ultimate release from Hell and flee to the standard texts that they wrongly imagine teach eternal conscious torment in Hell. I will consider those texts after a careful consideration of the many Bible texts that refute this teaching. Many Christians would rather feel "right" about their Bible interpretation than believe the contrary evidence that there might still be hope for deceased lost souls! Well, in this thread we're g\oing to get into the Word and discuss the implications of these neglected texts.

Our human sense of justice dictates that punishment should be proportionate to the severity of the offense or crime. From our perspective one can't do enough in our relatively brief lifetimes to merit eternal conscious torment. So we need to pay attention to the poignant question posed in Job 4:17: "Then I heard a voice: "Can a human be more just than God?" Unbelievers are not going to embrace the Gospel, if they honestly believe that the Christian concept of God is that of a vindictive morally monstrous sadist. So Christians must recognize the many reasons for failure to believe in Jesus:

(1) Most people in the world, past and present, have never heard the Gospel.
(2) Of those who have, many honestly believe that the Gospel is false and the Holy Spirit has not convicted them to the contrary.
(3) Others honestly see no reason why the Gospel merits serious consideration beyond the menu of other religious belief systems.
(4) Still others have been so harmed or offended by the church or Christians that they have closed their minds to the Gospel's claims.
We would like unbelievers to be more open-minded to the truth of our Christian witness. In fact, few Christians are open-minded to challenges from other Christians of beliefs they hold dear.
 
Mar 14, 2011
76,416
17,678
113
#12
Notice how Fundmentalists duck the many Bible texts that imply ultimate release from Hell and flee to the standard texts that they wrongly imagine teach eternal conscious torment in Hell. I will consider those texts after a careful consideration of the many Bible texts that refute this teaching. Many Christians would rather feel "right" about their Bible interpretation than believe the contrary evidence that there might still be hope for deceased lost souls! Well, in this thread we're g\oing to get into the Word and discuss the implications of these neglected texts.

Our human sense of justice dictates that punishment should be proportionate to the severity of the offense or crime. From our perspective one can't do enough in our relatively brief lifetimes to merit eternal conscious torment. So we need to pay attention to the poignant question posed in Job 4:17: "Then I heard a voice: "Can a human be more just than God?" Unbelievers are not going to embrace the Gospel, if they honestly believe that the Christian concept of God is that of a vindictive morally monstrous sadist. So Christians must recognize the many reasons for failure to believe in Jesus:

(1) Most people in the world, past and present, have never heard the Gospel.
(2) Of those who have, many honestly believe that the Gospel is false and the Holy Spirit has not convicted them to the contrary.
(3) Others honestly see no reason why the Gospel merits serious consideration beyond the menu of other religious belief systems.
(4) Still others have been so harmed or offended by the church or Christians that they have closed their minds to the Gospel's claims.
We would like unbelievers to be more open-minded to the truth of our Christian witness. In fact, few Christians are open-minded to challenges from other Christians of beliefs they hold dear.
Lol

So you want to teach and trell the world to go on eat drink and be merry, We can get out of hell (lake of fire) after we go there. We do not have to repent and recieve the gift of eternal life in this lifetime

Yeah go ahead with that. I doubt God will look favorably on you when you try to explain to him why he has to let people out of hell who commited the unpardonable sin. Which jesus said will NEVER be forgiven, in this lifetime or the next.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
5,047
2,086
113
#13
Notice how Fundmentalists duck the many Bible texts that imply ultimate release from Hell and flee to the standard texts that they wrongly imagine teach eternal conscious torment in Hell. I will consider those texts after a careful consideration of the many Bible texts that refute this teaching. Many Christians would rather feel "right" about their Bible interpretation than believe the contrary evidence that there might still be hope for deceased lost souls! Well, in this thread we're g\oing to get into the Word and discuss the implications of these neglected texts.

Our human sense of justice dictates that punishment should be proportionate to the severity of the offense or crime. From our perspective one can't do enough in our relatively brief lifetimes to merit eternal conscious torment. So we need to pay attention to the poignant question posed in Job 4:17: "Then I heard a voice: "Can a human be more just than God?" Unbelievers are not going to embrace the Gospel, if they honestly believe that the Christian concept of God is that of a vindictive morally monstrous sadist. So Christians must recognize the many reasons for failure to believe in Jesus:

(1) Most people in the world, past and present, have never heard the Gospel.
(2) Of those who have, many honestly believe that the Gospel is false and the Holy Spirit has not convicted them to the contrary.
(3) Others honestly see no reason why the Gospel merits serious consideration beyond the menu of other religious belief systems.
(4) Still others have been so harmed or offended by the church or Christians that they have closed their minds to the Gospel's claims.
We would like unbelievers to be more open-minded to the truth of our Christian witness. In fact, few Christians are open-minded to challenges from other Christians of beliefs they hold dear.
You certainly don't know the gospel.
 

MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
388
144
43
#14
eternally grateful: "Lol So you want to teach and tell the world to go on eat drink and be merry, We can get out of hell (lake of fire) after we go there. We do not have to repent and receive the gift of eternal life in this lifetime

Why do Fundamentalist create a crude caricature of opposing positions to avoid the hard work of honest and open critical engagement?
Consignment to Hell is the most tragic fate possible, regardless of whether one's sojourn there is eternal. So to duck the issue and "eat, drink, and be merry" would be the ultimate folly. Please think more deeply and consider the case that will be laid out before you.

eternally grateful: "Yeah go ahead with that. I doubt God will look favorably on you when you try to explain to him why he has to let people out of hell who commited the unpardonable sin. Which jesus said will NEVER be forgiven, in this lifetime or the next."

I of course will consider the meaning of that text in detail when I have finished with the positive texts that support my case.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,818
2,307
113
#15
Lol

So you want to teach and trell the world to go on eat drink and be merry, We can get out of hell (lake of fire) after we go there. We do not have to repent and recieve the gift of eternal life in this lifetime

Yeah go ahead with that. I doubt God will look favorably on you when you try to explain to him why he has to let people out of hell who commited the unpardonable sin. Which jesus said will NEVER be forgiven, in this lifetime or the next.
This guy does promote Thomas Merton, so keep expectations low.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#16
Yes there is a release from hell.....right into the Great White Throne judgment and then straight into the Lake of Fire to be reunited with hell and death which have also been cast into the lake of fire!!
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
8,008
7,504
113
#17
God is the perfect judge. He has the Book of Life, and He knows who belongs to Him. I wouldn't worry about God leaving out anyone who will go to Heaven. It's on us to do our parts in being a witness/Ambassador for Heaven. God bless.
 

MadHermit

Junior Member
May 8, 2018
388
144
43
#18
Notice how posters freeze like Bambi in the headlights before the texts I've posted and then duck them in favor of other more exclusive sounding texts, even though I've said that the relevance of these texts will be carefully considered after I dis\cuss the positive texts for release from Hell. When dogmatic souls find certain texts threatening, they stop thinking and simplstically cline to more familiar texts that support their misguided agenda. .
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
7,786
1,502
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#19
My post referred specifically to a "SEQUENCE" [often overlooked]. I could also add how some misdefine phrases such as (for one small example) "the kingdom of the heavens" [which is "on the earth"] to be [incorrectly] meaning "UP IN Heaven," and thus skew the "chronology" of a number of other things. [i.e. plugging certain pieces into the wrong time-slots]
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,864
1,418
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#20
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

the term aionios, for ever and ever, means everlasting. the Lord said He gives the sheep 'eternal life'[aionios] and the goats eternal judgment[aionios].-Matthew 25:46

if we say the eternal ends for goats, then brethren, are we not obligated to say our eternal life ends as well? God forbid, may it never be! brethren we must be careful in the way we handle the Scriptures, lest we be found giving the nations a false sense of security. i plead to everyone who is reading this, today is the day of salvation, repent and believe the gospel, tomorrow is not promised to any of us.