Israel’s Final Restoration

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oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#262
Jul 28, 2012
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#262
abcdef said:
I Would probably agree with you about who the true Jerusalem/Israel is.

But here is my point,

The ToG's is clearly related to the gentiles controlling the city of Jerusalem.

Can we make a stand either way?

Yes, this scripture stands fulfilled today. or

No, it does not?

I'm on the yes side.
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Quite obviously the passage in Luke is not intended to mean the city would never be rebuilt or that it would never again be occupied by the Jews. Clearly this is not the intended meaning for it is presently so occupied. If we understand that fleshly Israel is not the true Israel but was merely a shadow of the true Israel then we should also understand that physical Jerusalem is not the true Jerusalem. Clearly it is not the Jerusalem of which John speaks in Rev. 21:2.
 
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abcdef

Senior Member
#263
Mar 30, 2016
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#263
oldhermit said:
Quite obviously the passage in Luke is not intended to mean the city would never be rebuilt or that it would never again be occupied by the Jews. Clearly this is not the intended meaning for it is presently so occupied. If we understand that fleshly Israel is not the true Israel but was merely a shadow of the true Israel then we should also understand that physical Jerusalem is not the true Jerusalem. Clearly it is not the Jerusalem of which John speaks in Rev. 21:2.
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I agree with you about the true Jerusalem and the heavenly city of Rev 21.

But this passage Lk 21:20-24 is not about the heavenly city, it is about the earthly, literal, city of Jerusalem.

The fulfillment would in this case would be literal,

that is, Israel controls the city now.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#264
Jul 28, 2012
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613
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#264
abcdef said:
I agree with you about the true Jerusalem and the heavenly city of Rev 21.

But this passage Lk 21:20-24 is not about the heavenly city, it is about the earthly, literal, city of Jerusalem.

The fulfillment would in this case would be literal,

that is, Israel controls the city now.
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Yes, I would agree. As this relates to the time of the Gentiles, I think it would then follow that the time of the Gentiles has indeed been fulfilled since we can see from a number of NT passages that the Gospel has already been preached to every nation under heaven.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#265
#265
abcdef said:
Brother EG, if you are not offended by the initials,

Lk 21:20-24, I'm interested in this passage because of it's simplicity.

According to these verses, all that has to happen for the times of the gentiles to end, is to have Israel in control of Jerusalem again. This has further prophetic implications.
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Hey bro. No initials are fine.. I use them also.

I see it different, I see the time of the gentiles ending bringing about the return of Isreal into her land, and gaining what she had before gentiles started to destroy her land, Remember, Jerusalem has been under gentile dominion since Babylon first over ran the city and destroyed it.

Even today, Isreal only has partial control of the city, it is still trampled on by gentiles today (see the muslim holy site) and it will get worse not better, especially when the beast arises..

If you want to apply other verses to this passage, to make additional requirements for the fulfillment of the ToG's to end, that can be discussed.

But in Lk 21:20-24, I don't see any other requirements.
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Daniel would be a good place to start, because Daniel prophesies the extent of gentile rule. ending with the return of Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#266
#266
abcdef said:
I Would probably agree with you about who the true Jerusalem/Israel is.

But here is my point,

The ToG's is clearly related to the gentiles controlling the city of Jerusalem.

Can we make a stand either way?

Yes, this scripture stands fulfilled today. or

No, it does not?

I'm on the yes side.
Click to expand...
No, Gentiles still have control of much of Jerusalem.

And Jerusalem is split into three factions, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism,, who knows. probably more..lol
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#267
#267
abcdef said:
I don't know of any that say that,

You guys sure make me study! yes!
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if you find one let me know. I have studied this for decades and have never seen it, I could be wrong though,, I may have missed something, that's why I asked.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#268
#268
eternally-gratefull said:
No, Gentiles still have control of much of Jerusalem.

And Jerusalem is split into three factions, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism,, who knows. probably more..lol
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We see in Daniel. revelation and other places, especially in romans 11 When the times of that genitle s complete. All Isreal will be saved.. And the redeemer will have returned..
 
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abcdef

Senior Member
#269
Mar 30, 2016
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#269
oldhermit said:
Yes, I would agree. As this relates to the time of the Gentiles, I think it would then follow that the time of the Gentiles has indeed been fulfilled since we can see from a number of NT passages that the Gospel has already been preached to every nation under heaven.
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So, to take this a step further,

I'm not sure what you believe about the statue in Dan 2,

I believe that the statue is the nations the ruled over Israel, not the whole planet.

But if the rule of the gentile nations over Israel is ended, and Israel is restored to Jerusalem,

Wouldn't that mean that the time of the statue in Dan 2 is over?

The rule of the gentiles over Israel is ended? The toes are finished, ended?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#270
#270
abcdef said:
So, to take this a step further,

I'm not sure what you believe about the statue in Dan 2,

I believe that the statue is the nations the ruled over Israel, not the whole planet.

But if the rule of the gentile nations over Israel is ended, and Israel is restored to Jerusalem,

Wouldn't that mean that the time of the statue in Dan 2 is over?

The rule of the gentiles over Israel is ended? The toes are finished, ended?
Click to expand...
good point..

according to Daniel 2, what stops the statue and destroys it? What causes the end of Gentile dominion?
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#271
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
613
113
70
Alabama
#271
abcdef said:
So, to take this a step further,

I'm not sure what you believe about the statue in Dan 2,

I believe that the statue is the nations the ruled over Israel, not the whole planet.

But if the rule of the gentile nations over Israel is ended, and Israel is restored to Jerusalem,

Wouldn't that mean that the time of the statue in Dan 2 is over?

The rule of the gentiles over Israel is ended? The toes are finished, ended?
Click to expand...
Perhaps I could do a work up in Dan 2 for you if you like. It may take me some time. It has been a while since I have spent any real time in Daniel but I have a colleague who is since deceased but who did some really good work in this book.
 
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abcdef

Senior Member
#272
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
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#272
eternally-gratefull said:
No, Gentiles still have control of much of Jerusalem.

And Jerusalem is split into three factions, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism,, who knows. probably more..lol
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Brother EG,

Israel's military is in control of Israel and Jerusalem, and the Temple Mt.

No other nation has any authority there.

Different groups live in different areas,"hoods" ha ha, left over pre 1967 areas.

But the military is in "tight" control.
 
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abcdef

Senior Member
#273
Mar 30, 2016
2,809
111
63
#273
oldhermit said:
Yes, I would agree. As this relates to the time of the Gentiles, I think it would then follow that the time of the Gentiles has indeed been fulfilled since we can see from a number of NT passages that the Gospel has already been preached to every nation under heaven.
Click to expand...
Think about the prophetic implications of Israel's restoration to Jerusalem.

I would really like to discuss this topic.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#274
Jul 28, 2012
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#274
abcdef said:
Think about the prophetic implications of Israel's restoration to Jerusalem.

I would really like to discuss this topic.
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There are only two restorations prophesied concerning the return of Israel to Jerusalem. The first was fulfilled in the time Ezera and Nehemiah and the second which was only for the remnant, was fulfilled in Acts 2. Which one would you like to discuss?
 
A

abcdef

Senior Member
#275
Mar 30, 2016
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#275
eternally-gratefull said:
good point..

according to Daniel 2, what stops the statue and destroys it? What causes the end of Gentile dominion?
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Brother EG,

The stone strikes the statue in the feet that were of iron and clay v 34,

Do you realize that if Israel is restored to Jerusalem, that the stone is about to strike?
 
A

abcdef

Senior Member
#276
Mar 30, 2016
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111
63
#276
oldhermit said:
There are only two restorations prophesied concerning the return of Israel to Jerusalem. The first was fulfilled in the time Ezera and Nehemiah and the second which was only for the remnant, was fulfilled in Acts 2. Which one would you like to discuss?
Click to expand...
How is Lk 21:20-24, (a literal fulfillment of Israel to Jerusalem, ToG's end), not a restoration?

I mean, it seems like the Lk 21 passage indicates a literal return of Israel to the city.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#277
#277
abcdef said:
Brother EG,

Israel's military is in control of Israel and Jerusalem, and the Temple Mt.

No other nation has any authority there.

Different groups live in different areas,"hoods" ha ha, left over pre 1967 areas.

But the military is in "tight" control.
Click to expand...

the temple mount is still trampled on by gentiles
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#278
#278
abcdef said:
Brother EG,

The stone strikes the statue in the feet that were of iron and clay v 34,

Do you realize that if Israel is restored to Jerusalem, that the stone is about to strike?
Click to expand...
Hey bro.

Yes, Who is that stone that struck, That stone resembles the same thing which will destroy the final beast of Dan 7 correct?
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#280
Jul 28, 2012
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613
113
70
Alabama
#280
abcdef said:
How is Lk 21:20-24, (a literal fulfillment of Israel to Jerusalem, ToG's end), not a restoration?

I mean, it seems like the Lk 21 passage indicates a literal return of Israel to the city.
Click to expand...
That is a good question. I will respond to this tomorrow if that is alright with you. It has been a long day and I am going to bed.
 
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