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It's the stone that strikes the statue, but what is the stone, and what happens next? I believe that there is more to this stone, than what is generally understood. More discussion is needed on this topic.
I would ask you, please, to show me what destroys the 4th beast in Dan 7, and what nation is the 4th beast as you see it?
I would ask you, please, to show me what destroys the 4th beast in Dan 7, and what nation is the 4th beast as you see it?
There is no literal temple now.
Israel, the nation, is not at peace.
But in the context of the Lk passage, these are not required.
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The stone has not destroyed the statue yet.
Is there a time, between when the statue is ended (Israel restored) and when the stone strikes? It would be a very short time.
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But either way, the stone is about to strike. Do you understand what this means?
Israel, the nation, is not at peace.
But in the context of the Lk passage, these are not required.
===========================================
The stone has not destroyed the statue yet.
Is there a time, between when the statue is ended (Israel restored) and when the stone strikes? It would be a very short time.
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But either way, the stone is about to strike. Do you understand what this means?
Ok 
I will stop. It has no ending, because we have two different views on the OT.
And I think our discussion has some emotional impacts on you.
I believe as the New Testament says, that OT was fulfilled spiritually. You believe it must be fulfilled literally so you have to wait for the future.
And all our interpretations of Scriptures depend on this.
I will stop. It has no ending, because we have two different views on the OT.And I think our discussion has some emotional impacts on you.
I believe as the New Testament says, that OT was fulfilled spiritually. You believe it must be fulfilled literally so you have to wait for the future.
And all our interpretations of Scriptures depend on this.
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E
Ok I will stop. It has no ending, because we have two different views on the OT.
And I think our discussion has some emotional impacts on you.
I believe as the New Testament says, that OT was fulfilled spiritually. You believe it must be fulfilled literally so you have to wait for the future.
And all our interpretations of Scriptures depend on this.
I will stop. It has no ending, because we have two different views on the OT.And I think our discussion has some emotional impacts on you.
I believe as the New Testament says, that OT was fulfilled spiritually. You believe it must be fulfilled literally so you have to wait for the future.
And all our interpretations of Scriptures depend on this.
I do not have to wait for anything, I am saved, the only thing I am waiting on is my future sinless body. I just trust God will keep his word in everything he says, If that means some stuff will be future, then so be it..
I agree, we should stop. Some people get on my nerves in this discussion, And it is not worth you and I having a wedge put between us because of what other people do.
E
Dan 2: [SUP]44 [/SUP]And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.
Dan 7: [SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the oneWhich shall not be destroyed.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. [SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[SUP][e][/SUP] a name written that no one knew except Himself. [SUP]13 [/SUP]He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[SUP][f][/SUP] followed Him on white horses. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[SUP][g][/SUP] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
[h=3]The Beast and His Armies Defeated[/h][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[SUP][h][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[SUP][i][/SUP] and slave, both small and great.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
I believe all of these are the same event, each one giving more detail. And the stone that destroys the statue (ends the gentile dominion) is Christ himself
As for who the final kingdom is. It is reformed rome, the iron and clay mix.. the 13 nation, which fell to ten, which came under rule of one beast, who holds himself higher than God, and begins to rule the world. promising peace and safety, then 3 1/2 years and hell and destruction, Jesus returns as he said in matt 24, because if he did not no flesh would survive on earth.
Dan 7: [SUP]13 [/SUP]“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the oneWhich shall not be destroyed.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. [SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[SUP][e][/SUP] a name written that no one knew except Himself. [SUP]13 [/SUP]He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,[SUP][f][/SUP] followed Him on white horses. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Now out of His mouth goes a sharp[SUP][g][/SUP] sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
[h=3]The Beast and His Armies Defeated[/h][SUP]17 [/SUP]Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,[SUP][h][/SUP] [SUP]18 [/SUP]that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free[SUP][i][/SUP] and slave, both small and great.”
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. [SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
I believe all of these are the same event, each one giving more detail. And the stone that destroys the statue (ends the gentile dominion) is Christ himself
As for who the final kingdom is. It is reformed rome, the iron and clay mix.. the 13 nation, which fell to ten, which came under rule of one beast, who holds himself higher than God, and begins to rule the world. promising peace and safety, then 3 1/2 years and hell and destruction, Jesus returns as he said in matt 24, because if he did not no flesh would survive on earth.
E
Thank you. I like your other posts about other topics.
There is no enmity between us, I hope
There is no enmity between us, I hope
No there is no enmity brother.. Unlike what some may think, I am not that hard, or :its my way or the highway" there are just a few I have enmity with, and there are reasons, which have nothing to do with this topic. Although it concerns discussing this topic.. If that makes sense.
E
Daniel 2 is the basic version of the age of the gentiles. God gives us far greater detail of this "time" in other passages, Like Dan 7 and others..It is a great study,, I did an outline on all of these prophesies and events.. Try to bring the OT and NT together (revelation)
It is a great topic, I love history and prophesy.. It shows a God who is like no other god,, who is outside of time, and in complete control of everything.
It is a great topic, I love history and prophesy.. It shows a God who is like no other god,, who is outside of time, and in complete control of everything.
Brother EG,
When does the passage in Dan 7:13-14 take place?
I believe that it is when Jesus ascended (with clouds, Acts 1:9) after His resurrection.1 Pet 3:22
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Dan 2, What does it mean that the kingdom breaks the statue in pieces and consumes it?
Where in the statue does it show this? Where is the statue first broken? Where are the nations first shown divided, (legs)?
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I don't have much time right now,
Brother John
When does the passage in Dan 7:13-14 take place?
I believe that it is when Jesus ascended (with clouds, Acts 1:9) after His resurrection.1 Pet 3:22
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Dan 2, What does it mean that the kingdom breaks the statue in pieces and consumes it?
Where in the statue does it show this? Where is the statue first broken? Where are the nations first shown divided, (legs)?
============================================
I don't have much time right now,
Brother John
E
I disagree, It will be a future event, As Jesus spoke in Matt 24.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Not sure what you mean, so I may have misunderstood, if so forgive me..
The statue, as Daniel was told. is four successive kingdoms (5 if you count the legs and feet as two different kingdoms with the same name) who at the end of the time given by God, are destroyed and consumed in one event, the striking of the stone, The return of Christ..
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31 [/SUP]And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Not sure what you mean, so I may have misunderstood, if so forgive me..
The statue, as Daniel was told. is four successive kingdoms (5 if you count the legs and feet as two different kingdoms with the same name) who at the end of the time given by God, are destroyed and consumed in one event, the striking of the stone, The return of Christ..
Brother EG,
I believe that Matt 24 is primarily about the destruction of Jerusalem, the times of the gentiles, and the restoration of Israel to Jerusalem in parallel with Lk 21.
Notice the similarity in the descriptive language surrounding the event in Lk 21. Flee, etc.
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In Dan 2, Does the kingdom cause the statue (nations) to break into the 2 legs? And then break into 10 toes?(divide)
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What translation are you using? I have several here, it might help me to read from the same one you are using. I usually try to use the KJV, but it is "older" language, beautiful, but older, like us, ha ha.
Brother John
I believe that Matt 24 is primarily about the destruction of Jerusalem, the times of the gentiles, and the restoration of Israel to Jerusalem in parallel with Lk 21.
Notice the similarity in the descriptive language surrounding the event in Lk 21. Flee, etc.
=================================================
In Dan 2, Does the kingdom cause the statue (nations) to break into the 2 legs? And then break into 10 toes?(divide)
=================================================
What translation are you using? I have several here, it might help me to read from the same one you are using. I usually try to use the KJV, but it is "older" language, beautiful, but older, like us, ha ha.
Brother John
I wish to thank you for offering this verse for consideration. This has given me cause to rethink a point I had made in an earlier post. It is very easy sometimes to read things into a text that simply are not there. This time element that Jesus presents us with in this text relates not to the return of the Jews to Jerusalem but to the level and duration of destruction which God would visit upon the city of Jerusalem. God would limit the destruction of the city within a specified time frame – “'till the time of the Gentiles were fulfilled.” When that time element was satisfied, the pouring out of the wrath of God upon that city would be complete. There is no mention here of any regathering of the Jews, nor the reclaiming of the city by the Jews, nor even the rebuilding of the city. This is also confirmed by Jesus in both Matthew's and Mark's account.
In Matthew 24:19-20 Jesus says it in the way. “For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will. Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.”
In Mark 13:19-20 Jesus says, “For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will. “Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.”
In Luke's account Jesus says, “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. “Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”
Luke is more specific in defining the time element of the destruction. He defines the shortening of those days as the fulfillment of “the time of the Gentiles.” The question I think we are dealing with is this; To what is Jesus referring when he speaks of the “time of the Gentiles.” I had always assumed based on Paul's statement in Romans11:25-32 that this reflected the time in which the Gentiles would hear the gospel. I had never really looked at it this closely until now, and now I am not so sure that is what Jesus meant at all in Luke's text. Since this is the only place in the NT where this phrase is used (at least it is the only place I can remember it being used), then it behooves us to confine its meaning to the limitations of the context. In Luke 21, Jesus nowhere addresses the issue of Gentile conversion nor the preaching of the Gospel. Jesus is exclusively discussing the destruction of Jerusalem. It is in this context that he supplies the term “the time of the Gentiles.” The context then limits its application and defines its meaning. It refers not the the conversion of the Gentiles nor to any supposed return of the Jews to the city but, to the allotted time in which Rome – the Gentiles, would be engaged in the destruction of Jerusalem, "by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”So, the destruction of the city would be limited to a specified duration of time. The reason given is not for the return of the Jews not for the conversion of the Gentiles but for the sake of the elect – the Church. The limiting of the destruction was to insure that the Church was not caught up in that destruction.
In Matthew 24:19-20 Jesus says it in the way. “For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will. Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.”
In Mark 13:19-20 Jesus says, “For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will. “Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.”
In Luke's account Jesus says, “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. “Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”
Luke is more specific in defining the time element of the destruction. He defines the shortening of those days as the fulfillment of “the time of the Gentiles.” The question I think we are dealing with is this; To what is Jesus referring when he speaks of the “time of the Gentiles.” I had always assumed based on Paul's statement in Romans11:25-32 that this reflected the time in which the Gentiles would hear the gospel. I had never really looked at it this closely until now, and now I am not so sure that is what Jesus meant at all in Luke's text. Since this is the only place in the NT where this phrase is used (at least it is the only place I can remember it being used), then it behooves us to confine its meaning to the limitations of the context. In Luke 21, Jesus nowhere addresses the issue of Gentile conversion nor the preaching of the Gospel. Jesus is exclusively discussing the destruction of Jerusalem. It is in this context that he supplies the term “the time of the Gentiles.” The context then limits its application and defines its meaning. It refers not the the conversion of the Gentiles nor to any supposed return of the Jews to the city but, to the allotted time in which Rome – the Gentiles, would be engaged in the destruction of Jerusalem, "by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”So, the destruction of the city would be limited to a specified duration of time. The reason given is not for the return of the Jews not for the conversion of the Gentiles but for the sake of the elect – the Church. The limiting of the destruction was to insure that the Church was not caught up in that destruction.