Israel or Palestine?

[zone]

“Recently there has been a renewal of attacks on Judaism and Jews through recycling of old accusations and distortions about the Talmud. Anti-Talmud tracts were originally developed in the Middle Ages as Christian polemics against Judaism, but today they emanate from a variety of Christian, Moslem and secular sources. Sometimes such “studies” have blatantly anti-Semitic tones; sometimes they are more subtle. Yet all of them remain as false and pernicious today as they did in the Middle Ages.

Because of their unfortunate frequent reappearance, there is a need to formally rebut these accusations and canards. The Anti-Defamation League developed the following essay that explains in an honest and scholarly way the Talmudic teachings as understood by Jewish religious authorities……….

Attempts to denigrate Judaism by quoting from classical rabbinic works are on record from as early as the twelfth century. By selectively citing various passages from the Talmud and Midrash, polemicists have sought to demonstrate that Judaism espouses hatred for non-Jews (and specifically for Christians), and promotes obscenity, sexual perversion, and other immoral behavior. To make these passages serve their purposes, these polemicists frequently mistranslate them or cite them out of context (wholesale fabrication of passages is not unknown). They usually dismiss attempts to correct their misreadings as “hairsplitting” or dishonest attempts to portray Judaism in a favorable light.” Read the entire essay HERE <- - click

really?
well i guess ADL is the right place to look for truth, huh?

hey i know! let's actually read the Talmud!
here it is:

Talmudic Books at Halakhah.com Presents the Classic Online Soncino

English Babylonian Talmud

Halakhah.com Babylonian Talmud Online in English < click

i'm up for it...been here done this.
Foxman and apologists can screech all day long.
everything he says isn't in there...is in there.

what'd'ya think a special AD League is for?
to threaten and intimidate people who DARE to speak.

eh.....pfft...

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

it just goes on and on and on and on.

It is in our best interest to take the time to reconcile the Scriptures and gain an understanding of how one can be an enemy of the gospel yet still be elect.

it's actually in our best interest to understand Romans 11, and election.
it's also useful to understand Judaism; History, and eschatology (which is actually just the True Gospel)

can't help Dispensationalists much.

Sadly many choose to remain wise in their own conceits and then use Christian polemics against Judaism to condemn and boast against the Jews. Sadly they fail to realize Scripture warns against such behavior;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Judaism is a satanic perversion of Moses and the prophets.

the fulness of the gentiles came in way back in Acts.
get with the program.
jews have had salvation available to them for longer than gentiles as a whole.

the Gospel went to them first.

you don't understand the blindness; nor the partial; nor election; nothing.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
Everlasting H5769
עלם עולם
‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.

Jer 33:24 - 26 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.

fulfilled.
long ago.
who is David His servant?

where is King David now?
will David sit on a throne in the future ruling?

or is Jesus The True David?

were they all Israel who were of Israel?

surely not.

The ordinances of heaven have not ceased, nor have the Jews been cast away.

unbelieving jews were cut off.
they died in their sins.
they'll be judged on the Last Day according to the words Jesus spoke.

He said Moses would be their accuser.
they didn't believe Moses.

but the remnant believed and was saved.
and jews get saved all the time.

your version of National Israel doesn't exist.
course you don't believe Paul either.

in his day he said the true jews who were cut off could be grafted back in if they continued not in unbelief.
that means Gospel.

that means the name of Jesus.
that means renouncing Judaism.

that means coming into the Only Covenant there is - Christ.

Eze 36:19-30 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

fulfilled.
just like Daniel 9. FULFILLED.
fulfilled. the Spirit at Pentecost.

Considering that the most desolate period (both Spiritually, by the exile of Jews and Christians and physically, turned into a desert wasteland) of Israel's history was while under Islams control

what?
now we go to emotional rhetoric, skipping over centuries, and truth.

Israel's (jews) history culminated in the Promise - Jesus; salvation; the Spirit; eternal life.

i dunno what you're talking about...oh....you're playing THE SHELL GAME with the name israel!
you mean THE LAND...the soil.

the place Jesus decreed DESOLATE and sent Titus to level in 70AD.

right?
or no?

see, i know i'm not talking to a Christian when they misidentify Israel.

it is hard to believe that any one would deny that the restoration of the Jews to their God given land and the way that land has flourished since their return could not be by the hand of God.

oh God is in control, for sure. you just have no idea what's going on.

the Land is flourishing because they devised the Scofield Bible to dupe Christians into handing over their OWN inheritence to set up the Synagogue of Satan. totally BROKE!

and completely morally bankrupt at home....what a coincidence. i thought it was bless the jews or be cursed.

is it?

they stole all the water and trees and stuff because they're mixing ancient Canaan promised Land stories with Talmud.
they totally reject Jesus Christ the King of Israel and everything about Him.

all that Fulfillment. rejected and denied.

NO MORE TEMPLES...nothing.
no priesthood; no sacrifices; zero.

ONLY the Gospel of salvation.

Isn’t it time you set your doctrinally based prejudice against the Jews aside so you could rejoice and praise God for being the covenant keeping God He is. Or must you continue to believe all was fulfilled in the first century so you can continue to stand with the antizionists of the world who try and help Islam usurp Israel’s right to the land God gave them?

Joshua 21
Cities and Pasturelands Allotted to Levi
1Then the heads of the fathers’ houses of the Levites came to Eleazar the priest and to Joshua the son of Nun and to the heads of the fathers’ houses of the tribes of the people of Israel. 2And they said to them at Shiloh in the land of Canaan, “The LORD commanded through Moses that we be given cities to dwell in, along with their pasturelands for our livestock.” 3So by command of the LORD the people of Israel gave to the Levites the following cities and pasturelands out of their inheritance.

4The lot came out for the clans of the Kohathites. So those Levites who were descendants of Aaron the priest received by lot from the tribes of Judah, Simeon, and Benjamin, thirteen cities.

5And the rest of the Kohathites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Ephraim, from the tribe of Dan and the half-tribe of Manasseh, ten cities.

6The Gershonites received by lot from the clans of the tribe of Issachar, from the tribe of Asher, from the tribe of Naphtali, and from the half-tribe of Manasseh in Bashan, thirteen cities.

7The Merarites according to their clans received from the tribe of Reuben, the tribe of Gad, and the tribe of Zebulun, twelve cities.

8These cities and their pasturelands the people of Israel gave by lot to the Levites, as the LORD had commanded through Moses.

9Out of the tribe of the people of Judah and the tribe of the people of Simeon they gave the following cities mentioned by name, 10which went to the descendants of Aaron, one of the clans of the Kohathites who belonged to the people of Levi; since the lot fell to them first. 11They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it. 12But the fields of the city and its villages had been given to Caleb the son of Jephunneh as his possession.

13And to the descendants of Aaron the priest they gave Hebron, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands, Libnah with its pasturelands, 14Jattir with its pasturelands, Eshtemoa with its pasturelands, 15Holon with its pasturelands, Debir with its pasturelands, 16Ain with its pasturelands, Juttah with its pasturelands, Beth-shemesh with its pasturelands—nine cities out of these two tribes; 17then out of the tribe of Benjamin, Gibeon with its pasturelands, Geba with its pasturelands, 18Anathoth with its pasturelands, and Almon with its pasturelands—four cities. 19The cities of the descendants of Aaron, the priests, were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

20As to the rest of the Kohathites belonging to the Kohathite clans of the Levites, the cities allotted to them were out of the tribe of Ephraim. 21To them were given Shechem, the city of refuge for the manslayer, with its pasturelands in the hill country of Ephraim, Gezer with its pasturelands, 22Kibzaim with its pasturelands, Beth-horon with its pasturelands—four cities; 23and out of the tribe of Dan, Elteke with its pasturelands, Gibbethon with its pasturelands, 24Aijalon with its pasturelands, Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—four cities; 25and out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Taanach with its pasturelands, and Gath-rimmon with its pasturelands—two cities. 26The cities of the clans of the rest of the Kohathites were ten in all with their pasturelands.

27And to the Gershonites, one of the clans of the Levites, were given out of the half-tribe of Manasseh, Golan in Bashan with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, and Beeshterah with its pasturelands—two cities; 28and out of the tribe of Issachar, Kishion with its pasturelands, Daberath with its pasturelands, 29Jarmuth with its pasturelands, En-gannim with its pasturelands—four cities; 30and out of the tribe of Asher, Mishal with its pasturelands, Abdon with its pasturelands, 31Helkath with its pasturelands, and Rehob with its pasturelands—four cities; 32and out of the tribe of Naphtali, Kedesh in Galilee with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Hammoth-dor with its pasturelands, and Kartan with its pasturelands—three cities. 33The cities of the several clans of the Gershonites were in all thirteen cities with their pasturelands.

34And to the rest of the Levites, the Merarite clans, were given out of the tribe of Zebulun, Jokneam with its pasturelands, Kartah with its pasturelands, 35Dimnah with its pasturelands, Nahalal with its pasturelands—four cities; 36and out of the tribe of Reuben, Bezer with its pasturelands, Jahaz with its pasturelands, 37Kedemoth with its pasturelands, and Mephaath with its pasturelands—four cities; 38and out of the tribe of Gad, Ramoth in Gilead with its pasturelands, the city of refuge for the manslayer, Mahanaim with its pasturelands, 39Heshbon with its pasturelands, Jazer with its pasturelands—four cities in all. 40As for the cities of the several Merarite clans, that is, the remainder of the clans of the Levites, those allotted to them were in all twelve cities.

41The cities of the Levites in the midst of the possession of the people of Israel were in all forty-eight cities with their pasturelands. 42These cities each had its pasturelands around it. So it was with all these cities.

43 Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers.

And they took possession of it, and they settled there.

44 And the LORD gave them rest on every side just as he had sworn to their fathers.

Not one of all their enemies had withstood them, for the LORD had given all their enemies into their hands.

45 Not one word of all the good promises that the LORD had made to the house of Israel had failed; all came to pass.

Mat 24:33-35 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Summer is nigh, it is near, even at the door. The season grows shorter, the harvest is soon, many who saw Jerusalem freed of Gentile control in 67 will see the Lord’s return.

Learn a parable of the fig-tree - That is, These signs which I have given you will be as infallible a proof of the approaching ruin of the Jewish state as the budding of the trees is a proof of the coming summer.
Clarke

(1.) As to these things, the wars, seductions, and persecutions, here foretold, and especially the ruin of the Jewish nation; "This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be fulfilled (v. 34); there are those now alive, that shall see Jerusalem destroyed, and the Jewish church brought to an end." Because it might seem strange, he backs it with a solemn asseveration; "Verily, I say unto you. You may take my word for it, these things are at the door." Christ often speaks of the nearness of that desolation, the more to affect people, and quicken them to prepare for it. Note, There may be greater trials and troubles yet before us, in our own day, than we are aware of.
Matthew Henry

 

[Porthos]

Rather than parrot some apostate Christian's abject ignorance, or the taqiyyah and dissimulation of Islamic liars, I recommend you do a little independent research first. Why not start by replying to the post at this link:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61666-mark-beast-4.html#post994876


All that is absolutely IRRELEVANT.



They don't deny Jesus any more than an atheist or secular humanist that recognizes the historical record of Jesus existence.
What are you, some sort of an apostate that got sucked into religious pluralism? I can help you get over that kool-aid you chugged. Start with the prior link.



LIKE THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL!!!!! Which in case you didn't know, is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah, who saves all from sin who have faith in His shed blood.



At least we understand where you are coming from. So let's get one thing settled.

Will you confess before us now that you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and confess that you pray in Jesus' name? (on pain of committing the most egregious and ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN in Islam)

Will you confess before us that Jesus Christ was crucified, died and was resurrected from the dead.

You're speaking to me like I am a Muslim; with disdain.

Firstly, I am not. And secondly, I don't hate you, but I don't hate muslims either. You're using typical 'this guys not christian so we can treat him like dog's dirt until he CONFESSES MY BROTHERS' *throw hands in the air* PRAISE THE LORD! Tactics. Boring stuff really.

It's just a bad caricature of a good model of faith in God, and the post that you linked is just hate-filled anti-Islam propaganda like the US media spits out every day. I personally know several muslims, and they would never degenerate and mock, criticize or openly slander your faith and beliefs, nor your kin, the way that you are about them. To me that says that they are much more comfortable living the God-life than you are.

You must recognize, religious hatred is perpetrated by the few and seen by the non-religious, or by opposing religions, as the view of the many, when this isn't the case at all.

Maybe you should actually go out and meet a real moderate, meek muslim man. The meek will inherit the Earth, and for good reason. A person's character and tone speaks much more about their relationship with God than the words they use to attribute characteristics to their faith. I know muslims who will openly and plainly say, 'yes, Jesus is the messiah, born of a virgin, and made to be sacrificed for all men'. These arguments about 'the koran says he didn't die', are merely misunderstandings from what I have heard. Who can truly kill what cannot be killed??

You're bracketing millions of people in your agenda towards Islam whenever the majority of those in the Middle East whom you are throwing hatred against will be good, meek Muslims. I mean, it's ridiculous how many civilians, children, women and hard-working men who are killed because of the USA's blatant disregard for human life in the Middle East.

Only 1 out of 9 people killed in missile and bombing strikes are actually targets. The rest are civilians. Christian mass murder is just as bad, if not worse, than the Al Qaeda, Islam equivalent. And there are extremists on both sides of the fence. I am just saying, I don't see good Muslims attacking others faiths, the same with Hindus and Sikhs. They put compassion before hatred, the good ones. Their struggles are within themselves, not with the rest of the world.

 

[Drett]

You're speaking to me like I am a Muslim; with disdain.

You must recognize, religious hatred is perpetrated by the few and seen by the non-religious, or by opposing religions, as the view of the many, when this isn't the case at all.

It is interesting how an extremist in one religion hates everyone in another religion.

 

[Bookreader]

It is interesting how an extremist in one religion hates everyone in another religion.

You're right.

This thread has a couple of people filled with hatred for others. Each hates a different religious group.
And they claim to be Christians - that is the weird thing

 

[PeteWaldo]

You're speaking to me like I am a Muslim; with disdain.

Not at all. I replied to your post with the impatience due a self-proclaimed Christian, but religious pluralist, that believes there could be some relevance to Muslims believing in Jesus' virgin birth, even as the must DISBELIEVE the crucifixion of Christ - the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, must DENY the Son of God, and REJECT His shed blood, as ARTICLES OF FAITH in the false prophet Muhammad.

Firstly, I am not. And secondly, I don't hate you, but I don't hate muslims either.

Folks who have aversion to simple truth, always try to turn the discussion into being about persons. Please point out a single post of mine that shows anything other than my desperation for 1.5 billion people that have been deceived into disbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, denying the Son of God, and rejecting His shed blood as articles of faith in the false prophet Muhammad.

You're using typical 'this guys not christian so we can treat him like dog's dirt until he CONFESSES MY BROTHERS' *throw hands in the air* PRAISE THE LORD! Tactics. Boring stuff really.

There is nothing "typical" about pointing out to Muslims that the false prophet Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. Indeed your post is the "typical".

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

The eschatology induced coma in the church has resulted in abject ignorance to such things, and even efforts to reconcile exact opposites, as your post aptly illustrates. Islam is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph. The only anti-a-specific-cult on earth.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

How can a Christian see those suras as being other than inspired by Satan himself, through his "messenger" Muhammad?

It's just a bad caricature of a good model of faith in God, and the post that you linked is just hate-filled anti-Islam .......

Any self-proclaimed Christian that is not anti-Islam is obviously not a Christian, since the false prophet Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

........ propaganda like the US media spits out every day.

You even argue like a Muslim by blowing smokescreens over simple truth, like confusing the truth, by mixing in the irrelevancy of a Godless media.

I personally know several muslims, and they would never degenerate and mock, criticize or openly slander your faith and beliefs, nor your kin, the way that you are about them.

First, Muslims have been deceived that their cult has something to do with the one true God of the bible, so when they mock and criticize they are mocking what they have been deluded into believing is their God.
Second that's false, since Muslims routinely proclaim the scriptures to be corrupt, because Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of that revealed through the scriptures.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Try this. Ask your Muslim friends to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or ask them to pray in Jesus' name with you, and proclaim the crucifixion of Christ.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

For heaven's sakes, Muslims are even prohibited from being friends with Christians and Jews:

Sura 5:51: O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

To me that says that they are much more comfortable living the God-life than you are.

You must recognize, religious hatred is perpetrated by the few and seen by the non-religious, or by opposing religions, as the view of the many, when this isn't the case at all.

Maybe you should actually go out and meet a real moderate, meek muslim man.

Maybe you should learn about the blasphemy that they are indoctrinated to believe. The vast majority of folks that call themselves Muslims are non-Quranic non-practicing Muslims who don't even engage in the required praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" (as scripture refers to it) five times a day, required of them by the false prophet Muhammad.

The meek will inherit the Earth, and for good reason. A person's character and tone speaks much more about their relationship with God than the words they use to attribute characteristics to their faith. I know muslims who will openly and plainly say, 'yes, Jesus is the messiah, born of a virgin, ........

And what you should do is patiently explain to them that while that is all good, it doesn't matter as long as they disbelieve the crucifixion, deny the Son of God, and reject His shed blood. Perhaps give them a tract:
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/m30.pdf

....... and made to be sacrificed for all men'.

Then those Muslims were either stunningly ignorant regarding Islam, or they were lying to you.

These arguments about 'the koran says he didn't die', are merely misunderstandings from what I have heard. Who can truly kill what cannot be killed??

No surprise you would begin down the road of denying that Jesus was killed. Perhaps you don't know any mroe about scripture than you do Islam. Here's how Jesus put it:

Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

After it was fulfilled:

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

So what prophecy was "written in the Psalms" that Jesus was making reference to?

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.*

You're bracketing millions of people in your agenda towards Islam whenever the majority of those in the Middle East whom you are throwing hatred against will be good, meek Muslims.

This is not about persons, but about the lies, deception and blasphemy of THE false prophet Muhammad that they are indoctrinated to believe.
If you believe Muhammad to have been a true prophet, then you must believe that all of the prophets and witnesses in the 1600 year record of YHWH to mankind, that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years, were false and in particular Jesus and His own prophecies.

I mean, it's ridiculous how many civilians, children, women and hard-working men who are killed because of the USA's blatant disregard for human life in the Middle East.

What's ridiculous is people trying to argue that Islam is a religion of peace, in light of its 1400 year record and conquest of nearly the whole known world once, and over 20,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world - just since 9-11 during this Second Islamic Jihad.

Islamic Terror Attacks for First Part of 2013​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2012​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2011​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2010​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2009​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2008​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2007​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2006​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2005​

Islamic Terror Attacks for 2004​

Islamic Attacks from September 11th, 2001 through 2003​

Here is how their fellow TRUE Muslims that GET Islam characterize those that you describe who are not engaged in the same:
"Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari" - Maktba Dar-us-Salam's page 580

Chapter 2. The best among the people is that believer who strives his utmost in Allah's Cause with both his life and property.

footnotes:
[1] "Al-Jihad (the holy fighting) in Allah's Cause (with full force of number and weaponry) is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars (on which it stands). By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior, [His Word being La ilaha ill-Allah (which means: none has the right to be worshipped by Allah] and His Religion (Islam) is propagated. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and the Muslims fall into an inferior position; there honour is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim, and he who tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart wish to fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite.

[2] Of course, nobody can offer Salat (prayer) and observe Saum (fast) incessantly, and since the Muslim fighter is rewarded as if he was doing such good impossible deeds, no possible deed equals Jihad in reward.

So who do you guess the final arbiters of Islam would be? Those hypocrite apostates that you describe, or true fundamental followers of Muhammad that do as Muhammad commanded, and do as Muhammad did, supported by a beheading knife in one hand and the Quran and Hadith in the other?

Only 1 out of 9 people killed in missile and bombing strikes are actually targets.

That's irrelevant. If the ecclesia were engaged we would be dropping tracts of the Gospel of John from those drones.

The rest are civilians. Christian mass murder is just as bad, if not worse, than the Al Qaeda, Islam equivalent.

There is no such thing. Your suggestion is both a lie and oxymoronic. Unless you are going to present some scripture from the Gospel that commands Christians to engage in mass murder, your false suggestion borders on blasphemy.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Regarding Roman Church mass murder of Jews, Muslims AND CHRISTIANS, that behavior was obviously anything but Christian. However Muhammad commanded his followers to fight and slay non-Muslims:

Quran Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

And there are extremists on both sides of the fence.

The only "extremists" on the Islamic side are the apostates and hypocrites who pretend Islam is a religion of peace, when they are commanded to conquer all kingdoms, and subjugate all people, to disbeliving the crucifixion of Christ, denying the Son of God, and rejecting His shed blood, along with them.

I am just saying, I don't see good Muslims attacking others faiths, the same with Hindus and Sikhs. They put compassion before hatred, the good ones. Their struggles are within themselves, not with the rest of the world.

Since Jesus IS TRUTH, the only way I can serve Him is IN TRUTH, rather than perpetuating lies that result from reaction to emotional respone.

Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

You have deceived yourself into believing it is "compassionate" to encourage Muhammad's followers down the path they are on - to continue to believe the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel through Satan and his "messenger" Muhammad - while I believe that Christian compassion is expressed by encouraging them along to the foot of the cross. Why not try giving your friends that tract instead of joining them in Muhammad's lies?

 

[PeteWaldo]

It is interesting how an extremist in one religion hates everyone in another religion.

Come on Drett, please point to a single post I have put in this forum that expresses anything but my love for those so sorely deceived by the false prophet Muhammad, when in fact I repeatedly show you my reasons for hating Islam which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of that revealed through the Gospel.
Simply look back at my efforts to help you find your way to the foot of the cross through the scriptures. Yet rather than engaging, all you chose to do was ignore all those hours I spent, in my efforts to show you the truth.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post967817

And what so many self-proclaimed Christians in this forum seem to want to do, is encourage you to remain deceived by THE false prophet Muhammad. Do you think that encouraging someone to continue believing a lie is an expression of love for them?

Now let me ask you a question, my friend. What kind of a god do you suppose, would convince his followers, that to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus' name, would constitute the only unforgivable sin?
As proclaimed by so many Islamic sites

Praying in Jesus' name as Christians have for almost 2,000 years as being an unforgivable sin, as compared to child rape, or cold-blooded mass murder, for example, which may be forgiven.

Would you consider that indicates that Muhammad's stand-alone god that you follow would be a just God?

 

[zone]

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

who said in boast We killed Christ Jesus?

Re: Israel or Palestine?

why unbelieving Jews did. right?

so the Geller-Gang (you) would have Christians choose sides in a war between "The Civilized Man (unbelieving jews - crucify Him; His blood be upon us and our children - we killed Christ Jesus)" - and "The Savage (Muslims who are clearly duped by another satanic false religion)".

why do you want Christians involved in either, Pete?
why are you encouraging Christians to take part in the HOAX CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS which is establishing the Synagogue of Satan in the Middle East as the GREAT TYRANT AND BEAST?

huh?

lolololololol

The eschatology induced coma in the church has resulted in abject ignorance to such things, and even efforts to reconcile exact opposites, as your post aptly illustrates. Islam is to Christianity as the negative is to a photograph. The only anti-a-specific-cult on earth.

"The eschatology induced coma"
ROTFLMHO!

this is coming from the Therapon CULT which claims Islam is the beast; unbelieving Jews are Faithful Old Testament Wineskin One of Two Witnesses of God in the Christian Era Olive Trees?

GOD HAS TWO OLIVE TREE WITNESSES?

and those who said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus make up One of those Two Witnesses?

lemme help you balance your worldview Pete:

You <PETE> have deceived yourself into believing it is "compassionate" to encourage <JUDAISM'S> followers down the path they are on - to continue to believe the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel through Satan and his "messenger" <TALMUD> - while I believe that Christian compassion is expressed by encouraging them along to the foot of the cross. Why not try giving your friends that tract instead of joining them in <JUDAISM'S> lies?

okay...u r welcome.

 

[zone]

the only unforgivable sin

Who Was Jesus?

The Bible gave a warning about a dangerous, false prophet who would arise to test our faith in G-d. In Deuteronomy 13, G-d describes this false prophet as a member of the Jewish people (v. 2, 7) who would tell true prophecies and would have the power of miracles. G-d Himself would give this false prophet the power to perform miracles and reveal prophecy, but the false prophet would try to seduce the people away from G-d's Law and towards strange gods unknown to Judaism. The purpose would be to test whether we are truly committed to living under the Law, or whether we will be dazzled and fall for the temptation to join a false path to salvation (v. 3-6, 7-8, 11). In this Biblical passage, G-d repeatedly commands the Jews to kill this false prophet, lest the evil spread and destroy many souls.

To be accepted by the people, the false prophet would sometimes pretend to be a righteous Jew who fulfills the Law, but at key moments he would turn against certain details of the Law in order to make the breach (v. 6, 7). This is the reason that verse 1 commands us not to add or subtract any details from the Law, and verse 5 warns us to remain steadfast with all the traditions of the Law.

In Deuteronomy 17, this false prophet is also described as someone who would rebel against the authority of the judges of the Jewish people, and who should be put to death for his rebelliousness (v. 8-13, esp. v. 12). Who are the judges? The highest court in Israel was the Sanhedrin, which was established by Moses (Exodus 18:13-26; Numbers 11:16-29), and which lasted more than 15 centuries. The members of the Sanhedrin were the rabbis known as "Pharisees" (Pirushim, "those with the explanation"). G-d gave permanent authority to these judges to interpret the Law and G-d's Word, and it is a commandment to follow their decisions without turning even slightly to the right or the left (Deut. 17:11). But the false prophet would challenge the authority of the Sanhedrin, thus revealing himself to be an evil man.

In the book of the prophet Daniel, this false prophet is described as a king (the eleventh horn on a terrible beast) who would wage war against the Jews (the "holy ones"; see Deut. 14:2 on this term) and would change the Law including the calendar and the holidays (Daniel 7:8, 20-25). Elsewhere, this false prophet is described as a king who would disregard the G-d of his fathers, exalting himself as a god and giving honor to this new god-head (Daniel 11:36-39).

The man known today as "Jesus" fulfilled all these prophecies. He became a "king" (over the Christian church) who changed the original Law, doing away with the Hebrew calendar and the Biblical holidays (Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkos the Festival of Tabernacles, Passover, etc.). He disregarded the one, infinite G-d of the Hebrew Bible in favor of a new "trinity" that included himself. And he repeatedly broke the Law by committing terrible sins, while openly challenging the G-d-given authority of the rabbis of the Sanhedrin.

Naturally, Jesus did sometimes pretend to respect the Law, but whenever he thought he could get away with it, he turned right around and broke that same Law. In Matthew 5:17-19, he declared that he came to fulfill the Law, and in Matthew 23:1-3 he defended the authority of the rabbis. But the rest of the time, he rebelled against the Law—thus showing that his occasional words of piety were meant only to hide his evil agenda.

The following sins of Jesus are recorded in the "New Testament":

Jesus repudiated the laws of kosher food (Mark 7:18-19). [Compare this to the prophet Daniel's strict adherence to kashrus, in Daniel chapter 1.]

He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-36; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26).

He violated the Sabbath by picking grain, and incited his disciples to do the same (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-26).

4) He again violated the Sabbath by healing a man's arm, which was not a matter of saving a life, and he openly defied the rabbis in his total repudiation of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5). [Compare this to G-d's view of violating the Sabbath, in Numbers 15:32-36, Nehemiah 10:30-32, and dozens of other places throughout the Bible.]

Jesus brazenly defied and disobeyed the rabbis of the Sanhedrin, repudiating their authority (This is recorded in many places throughout the New Testament, but look especially at Matthew 23:13-39 and John 8:44-45).

The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":

He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).

He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).

The false, rebellious message of Jesus has been thoroughly rejected by the vast majority of the Jewish people, as G-d commanded. Unfortunately, however, this same message has brought a terrible darkness upon the world; today, over 1.5 billion gentiles believe in Jesus. These lost souls mistakenly think they have found salvation in Jesus; tragically, they are in for a rude awakening. Truth and eternal life are found directly from G-d, through performing His Law. Any "mediator" only separates man from G-d:

"G-d is not a man, who can lie, nor the son of man, who relents... He has not beheld iniquity in Jacob, nor has He seen perverseness in Israel" (Numbers 23:19).

Speaking prophetically of the Christian church, Moses declared, "For their 'rock' is not like our Rock... Where is their god, in whom they trusted?" (Deut. 32:31, 37).

"'See now that I, only I, am He, and there is no god with Me. I kill, and I bring to life; I wound, and I heal, and there is none who can rescue from My Hand...' Sing songs of joy, gentiles, with His people, for He will avenge the blood of His servants, and will take vengeance on His enemies, and will forgive His land and His people" (Deut. 32:39, 43).
"I, only I am Hashem (the L-rd), and besides Me there is no savior" (Isaiah 43:11).

"I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god... Is there a god besides Me? There is no rock; I do not know any" (Isaiah 44:6).

"Israel is saved in Hashem with an eternal salvation... Assemble yourselves and come, come near together, you gentiles who have escaped [the judgment]. (They have no knowledge, those who carry wooden sculptures and who pray to a god that does not save.) Announce and bring near, even take counsel together: Who declared this from ancient times, and announced it from then? Is it not I, Hashem? And there are no other gods beside Me, nor any righteous and saving god other than Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all ends of the earth, for I am G-d and there is none else. By Myself I swore, a righteous word went out of my mouth and it will not be withdrawn, that to Me every knee will bow and every tongue will swear" (Isaiah 45:17, 20-23).
What is the true key to salvation? Those who return to the Law (the Seven Commandments for the Children of Noah, according to the eternal covenant made with Noah in Genesis 9) and who assist the Jewish people (Isaiah 60, 61, 66) will be saved and will participate in the miracles and revelations, including worshipping in the Third Temple, under the kingship of the Messiah. As described in many places, including Jeremiah 16:19-21 and Zechariah 8:20-23, all the old gentile religions of the world will disappear, and their followers will turn to the Jews for spiritual leadership. Until then, Christians are spiritually blinded, and cannot yet understand G-d's wisdom in the Bible.

Ours is the last generation of the era of sin and evil and the first of the Messianic Era. Indeed, for the first time in history, there is a growing consensus of leading rabbis willing to name the man most suited to be the Messiah, and they are agreeing that he is the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson. The Rebbe is the spiritual leader of our generation, having boldly stirred up controversy over vital issues in which other leaders have remained tragically silent or have even caved in to the growing forces of darkness. He has upheld the Law perfectly and has worked mightily to strengthen the observance of the Law by Jews, as well as the observance of the Noachide Law by gentiles. Through his teaching of chasidus (Jewish mystical teachings, preserved from Moses and Mount Sinai), he has taught the world that G-d is One, the Infinite Who renews creation at every moment. The Rebbe is a direct descendant of King David and has received a true prophecy from G-d that we who are alive in this generation shall be the first in history to see the coming of the true messiah. Many Jews are eagerly anticipating the Rebbe's resurrection from the grave, ready to re-establish the Sanhedrin and anoint the king.

Our job is to finish preparing the way, by announcing the truth and bringing all of mankind back to the Law immediately. Through our divinely mandated efforts, we shall now clear the path for the return of the Garden of Eden and the establishment of the eternal sinless world promised by Isaiah and the other Biblical prophets.

JAHG

....

He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh




Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

[Wyclif]

So are the Christian Arabs supposed to leave the Holy Land? They are descended from the original Jewish Christians of the first century. They have Jewish blood.

 

[wdeaton65]

So are the Christian Arabs supposed to leave the Holy Land? They are descended from the original Jewish Christians of the first century. They have Jewish blood.

Unless they have a hexagram and a yamaka how could they be jewish?

 

[Wyclif]

If they are the descendents of Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then they are still Jews. No?

Or are Jews only the ones who rejected the true Messiah?

 

[wdeaton65]

If they are the descendents of Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then they are still Jews. No?

Or are Jews only the ones who rejected the true Messiah?

Just playing brother if they love Yeshua thats all that matters. shabbat shalome!!!

 

[Wyclif]

The original Jews for Jesus (so to speak) were the Jerusalem Christians of the Book of Acts. Their descendants today are the Christian Palestinians. The original first Christians, of the Book of Acts, didn't just vanish after the Bible ended. They had children and grandchildren and great grandchildren, etc. etc., up until today....