Israel

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Jan 12, 2019
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#21
Scripture clearly teaches the (Church) is the Israel of God, it also teaches only the chosen elect remnant Jew will be saved and (Added) to his church, the rest of ethnic Jews are blinded.

When the last name is added to the Lambs Book Of Life, then all Israel will be saved.

Romans 11:5-7 & 26-28KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
You subscribed to replacement theology?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#22
You subscribed to replacement theology?
No such thing as replacement theology, invented by the teachings of man in (Dispensationalism) who teaches the false doctrines of man in two people's of God, (Jew/Church) in (Dual Covenant Theology)

There is one covenant between God and man, the shed blood upon Calvary, by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the only way to salvation both Jew and Gentile (y)
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#23
No such thing as replacement theology, invented by the teachings of man in (Dispensationalism) who teaches the false doctrines of man in two people's of God, (Jew/Church) in (Dual Covenant Theology)

There is one covenant between God and man, the shed blood upon Calvary, by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the only way to salvation both Jew and Gentile (y)
But you claimed that the Body of Christ is now Israel right?

So if the Body of Christ was formed after the nation Israel has fallen (Romans 11:11), is it wrong to conclude that the Body of Christ has replaced Israel?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#24
But you claimed that the Body of Christ is now Israel right?

So if the Body of Christ was formed after the nation Israel has fallen (Romans 11:11), is it wrong to conclude that the Body of Christ has replaced Israel?
Two Israel's Are Seen Below, (Two), and the scripture below (Clearly) identifies both.

1.) Children of the flesh, Ethnic Jews (Israel)

2.) Children of the promised seed, the Church (Israel)

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#25
Two Israel's Are Seen Below, (Two), and the scripture below (Clearly) identifies both.

1.) Children of the flesh, Ethnic Jews (Israel)

2.) Children of the promised seed, the Church (Israel)

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
I see, so can I conclude that you are believing that, right from the very beginning, God saw Israel as "all who will believe in him"?

So in his mind, he saw all of us in the future believing in him, and hence consider us as "the true Israel".

Thus the Body of Christ has not replaced Israel, but rather it was Israel from the very beginning of time?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
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#26
What is your opinion as to why God changed Jacob's name to be henceforth called Israel? Gen 33:28.
Change of name represents a change of identity in the Bible, and a spiritual transformation into people of God.
Per example:

Sarai + letter He (breath, Spirit) ---------->Sarah (heir of promise)
Abram + letter He (breath, Spirit)---------->Abraham (heir of promise)
Saul ("asked for", root related to "sheol", Saul was a grievous king)---------->Paul ("small" alluding to humility; not an evil person in power anymore seeking to kill, but an heir of promise)


Zechariah 13:9 ...and will try them as gold is tried:...

I think this is represented by the picture of Jacob's wrestling, this event pictures trial intended by God to try and prove the believers, and they overcome.

Revelation 2:17 ...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

New identity aka new spirit is given to the overcomers, that only that man can know who receives it. Like so:

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?...
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#27
I see, so can I conclude that you are believing that, right from the very beginning, God saw Israel as "all who will believe in him"?

So in his mind, he saw all of us in the future believing in him, and hence consider us as "the true Israel".

Thus the Body of Christ has not replaced Israel, but rather it was Israel from the very beginning of time?
God sees the beginning and the end

The true Israel is the olive tree Jesus Christ, the believer becomes Israel the (Church) when receiving the blood shed upon Calvary

The natural branches of Israel were broken off in disbelief of this sacrifice upon Calvary, the remnant elect Jew will be grafted back in upon their confession and belief in this
sacrifice.

Yes Jesus Christ chose and predestined the remnant and all those chosen believers before the foundation of the world.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#28
God sees the beginning and the end

The true Israel is the olive tree Jesus Christ, the believer becomes Israel the (Church) when receiving the blood shed upon Calvary

The natural branches of Israel were broken off in disbelief of this sacrifice upon Calvary, the remnant elect Jew will be grafted back in upon their confession and belief in this
sacrifice.

Yes Jesus Christ chose and predestined the remnant and all those chosen believers before the foundation of the world.
Alright then, thanks for clarifying your doctrine.
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
160
36
28
#29
Yes Jesus Christ chose and predestined the remnant and all those chosen believers before the foundation of the world.
Right, we Christians are the Israelites of God.

Once the faithful nation of God's elect was miraculously protected, the doom predicted for wicked brothers would commence. As Jesus forewarned:
"When therefore the Lord therefore of the vineyard comes, what will he do unto those vine-growers? They said unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will rent out his vineyard unto other vine-growers, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus said unto them, Did you never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief corner stone: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?' Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Mt 21:40-45)
This was fulfilled by the Roman conquest; 70 to 135 AD. Now the House of Judah has come back to the holy Land, but in apostasy. They falsely call themselves Israel and they face a final punishment, as is well prophesied. Isaiah 22:1-14, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5, Zephaniah 1:1-18, +

True Israelites---the sons of Abraham who followed the Messiah, as manifested by Providence and by history---was again preserved during a time of national apostasy and tribulation. As was the case in former times with Moses, Elijah, and Isaiah, countless apostates were cut off from among the people. But God's elect Israel, the faithful remnant, triumphed and continued on, spreading the good news of the Kingdom of God to the entire world, in and through the Jewish Church.

Israel survived in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah. This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global. The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel. The only difference is that the NEW covenant of Israel enabled Jewish fullness to be bestowed upon gentile people groups (Gen 12:3).
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#30
Not every descendant of Israel is guaranteed salvation on the basis of being of Israel. Thats what Romans 9 is saying. Not of works .
You are being evasive, why don't you come right out and tell what the "E" stands for, and also the "R" & "M"?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#31
Uhhh, to represent the nation that would come from Jacob's line. Pretty simple. And one other reason, Jacobites sounds weird.:)
Do you think that there is a distinction between the nation of Israel and Jacob as Israel? How do you explain "all Israel is not off Israel"? Is Jacob/Israel representative of all of God's regenerated children?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#32
What is truly amazing is the grace of God towards Jacob the deceiver (and subsequently towards the nation of Israel). Jacob did not start out as a man of faith, but eventually he did become one. And his wrestling with Christ (as the Angel of the LORD) was the point at which he was blessed by God.

And He [Christ] said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he [Jacob] said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. And He [Christ] said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And He [Christ] said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed... And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God [the Angel of the LORD, Christ] face to face, and my life is preserved. (Gen 32:26-28,30).

The Bible says that no man has seen God [the Father] at anytime. So it was the pre-incarnate Christ, who always appeared to men as "the Angel of the LORD" who wrestled with Jacob.

We see the infinite grace of God in this passage, in that Christ could have easily killed Jacob, let alone knocked him to the ground with one blow. Instead He allowed Jacob to wrestle with Him, and even told Jacob to let Him go! The only reason that Jacob "prevailed" was because Christ allowed him to prevail.

But after Jacob was blessed by Christ, he said that he had seen God face to face and lived. This is because if any mortal man would see God the Father in all His glory, he would die instantly. The Hebrew word Peniel is in fact Penuel or Pen.uw.el which literally means "the face God" (El = God). But Jesus said that blessed are those who have not seen, and yet believed.
Do you believe that all of the nation of Israel are regenerated people of God?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#33
Two Israel's Are Seen Below, (Two), and the scripture below (Clearly) identifies both.

1.) Children of the flesh, Ethnic Jews (Israel)

2.) Children of the promised seed, the Church (Israel)

The Church is the (Israel Of God) children of the promised seed (Inheritance)

As scripture clearly teaches below (Ethnic Israel, Jews) the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God.

Dispensationalism's (Dual Covenant Theology) is the false teaching, God has one people and covenant with his (Church) through the shed blood upon Calvary.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Your (Israel Of God). Do you believe it to be the same as those described in Rev 5:9? Is Jacob, as Israel, your (Israel Of God)?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,686
113
#34
Do you think that there is a distinction between the nation of Israel and Jacob as Israel? How do you explain "all Israel is not off Israel"? Is Jacob/Israel representative of all of God's regenerated children?
Everyone from Jacob is not of Israel...see Esau.
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
160
36
28
#35
The true Christian Ecclesia is Israel:
Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: every faithful Christian person are designated by God to be Israelites. Galatians 6:14-16
The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, who are the only one Church, only one elect, be they Jew or Gentile by birth.
1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deuteronomy 33:3, Ezra 3:11
Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Ephesians 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9
2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isaiah 63:8, Hosea 11:1
Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Galatians 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1
3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalms 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Ezekiel 34:12
Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25
4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chronicles 29:14-18
Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 10:20-21, I Timothy 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9
5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deuteronomy 27:9
Christians are the priests of God: Isaiah 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Revelation 5:10
6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jeremiah 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2
Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32
7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7
Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24
8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18
Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Philippians 3:3, Col. 2:11
9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chronicles 20:7, Psalms 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8
Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Romans 4:13-18, Galatians 3:7& 29, John 4:23
10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deuteronomy 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalms 105:7-10
The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25

The above 10 proofs totally negate any argument that the Church and Israel are 2 separate entities. That premise is held and promoted by the pre-trib rapture exponents, who must have 2 groups; one removed to heaven, [themselves] and the Jews, [wrongly called; Israel] who remain on earth to face the Great Tribulation.
The truth is proven by how it is all the faithful Christian believers of every tribe, race, nation and language: Revelation 5:9-10 & 7:9, who gather in the holy Land soon after the Sixth Seal judgement/punishment of the nations. Habakkuk 3:12
They will be assigned to an appropriate Israelite tribe, according to each family’s characteristics. Proved by Isaiah 66:21
Then the 144,000 will be selected, 12,000 from each tribe, to go out and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:19
This new nation in the Middle East, will be called Beulah; Isaiah 62:1-5 They will live in peace and prosperity and when a large army comes down from the North, God will destroy it. Ezekiel 38-39, Joel 2:20

Sometime later, the President of the One World Government will come to Beulah and convince ‘many’ of them to sign a seven year treaty of peace. Daniel 11:27, Isaiah 28:14-15 This marks the commencement of the final seven years of this age and is the 70th ‘week of Daniel 9:24, then at the mid-point, the O.W.G. dictator will invade and conquer Beulah. Zech. 14:1-2, Daniel 11:30-32, which triggers the Great Tribulation of the seven Trumpet and seven Bowl punishments. Rev. 12:7-13
But those Israelites who ‘faithful to their God’, will be taken to a place of safety, as described in Revelation 12:14. Then at the Return of Jesus, those faithful ones, the righteous ‘woman’ of Christian Israel will experience a ‘rapture’ as they are gathered by the Lord’s angels. Matthew 24:31
They will join the resurrected saints and will enjoy the great blessings of the Millennium. Isaiah 65:17-25
[79 scripture references]
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#36
Your (Israel Of God). Do you believe it to be the same as those described in Rev 5:9? Is Jacob, as Israel, your (Israel Of God)?
Yes those seen in Rev 5:9 are saved believers through Calvary the (Church)

Revelation 5:9KJV
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#37
The true Christian Ecclesia is Israel:
Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: every faithful Christian person are designated by God to be Israelites. Galatians 6:14-16
The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, who are the only one Church, only one elect, be they Jew or Gentile by birth.
1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deuteronomy 33:3, Ezra 3:11
Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Ephesians 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9
2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isaiah 63:8, Hosea 11:1
Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Galatians 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1
3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalms 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Ezekiel 34:12
Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25
4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chronicles 29:14-18
Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 10:20-21, I Timothy 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9
5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deuteronomy 27:9
Christians are the priests of God: Isaiah 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Revelation 5:10
6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jeremiah 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2
Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32
7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7
Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24
8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18
Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Philippians 3:3, Col. 2:11
9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chronicles 20:7, Psalms 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8
Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Romans 4:13-18, Galatians 3:7& 29, John 4:23
10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deuteronomy 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalms 105:7-10
The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25

The above 10 proofs totally negate any argument that the Church and Israel are 2 separate entities. That premise is held and promoted by the pre-trib rapture exponents, who must have 2 groups; one removed to heaven, [themselves] and the Jews, [wrongly called; Israel] who remain on earth to face the Great Tribulation.
The truth is proven by how it is all the faithful Christian believers of every tribe, race, nation and language: Revelation 5:9-10 & 7:9, who gather in the holy Land soon after the Sixth Seal judgement/punishment of the nations. Habakkuk 3:12
They will be assigned to an appropriate Israelite tribe, according to each family’s characteristics. Proved by Isaiah 66:21
Then the 144,000 will be selected, 12,000 from each tribe, to go out and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 14:1-7, Isaiah 66:19
This new nation in the Middle East, will be called Beulah; Isaiah 62:1-5 They will live in peace and prosperity and when a large army comes down from the North, God will destroy it. Ezekiel 38-39, Joel 2:20

Sometime later, the President of the One World Government will come to Beulah and convince ‘many’ of them to sign a seven year treaty of peace. Daniel 11:27, Isaiah 28:14-15 This marks the commencement of the final seven years of this age and is the 70th ‘week of Daniel 9:24, then at the mid-point, the O.W.G. dictator will invade and conquer Beulah. Zech. 14:1-2, Daniel 11:30-32, which triggers the Great Tribulation of the seven Trumpet and seven Bowl punishments. Rev. 12:7-13
But those Israelites who ‘faithful to their God’, will be taken to a place of safety, as described in Revelation 12:14. Then at the Return of Jesus, those faithful ones, the righteous ‘woman’ of Christian Israel will experience a ‘rapture’ as they are gathered by the Lord’s angels. Matthew 24:31
They will join the resurrected saints and will enjoy the great blessings of the Millennium. Isaiah 65:17-25
[79 scripture references]
Isn't Israel the 'wife 'of God ? Not the bride of Christ
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,230
1,126
113
New Zealand
#38
Israel is erm .. Israel and erm the church is erm not Israel . Things different are not the same .
Not every descendant of Israel is guaranteed salvation on the basis of being of Israel.
Yeah.. there is the New Testament church and the assembly of Israel in the wilderness as a church.. different types.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#39
Yeah.. there is the New Testament church and the assembly of Israel in the wilderness as a church.. different types.
There is only one Church, and one Covenant, the one bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, the covenant of the New Testament In The Blood!

Dispensationalism falsely teaches (Dual Covenant Theology) the false doctrine of (Two People's) of God, Ethnic Jews and The Church?

A Big Lie, There Is One Covenant, (CHURCH)

Those seen in Revelation 5:9 Below Is The Church, They Are Redeemed By The Cross Of Calvary, Just As All Believers In The Church Are.

Revelation 5:9KJV
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;