It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

Re: Do Not Reject Eternal Security by Worshipping Man's Will

But what If I get angry at God and reject His working through me and fellow brothers come and try to talk to me and I reject them as well. Will God respect my will or override it?

I really don't know.
Now would you throw your child out for pitching a fit, or would you give him a little spanking? God so loved the world, you, me, & everyone. He does have ways to adjust our attitudes. One way He does it is with His constraining love. His love constrains. Imagine Paul, on the road to Damascus to attack Christians in Damascus, trip motivated by hate. All of a sudden, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?"

The Lord has many attributes; He gets angry, laughs. He is holy and pure. But so far as I know, in the Bible there is but one attribute which is given in the form of a definition (though it is a figure of speech), where it says, "God is ____." A word with four letters.

 

[Atwood]

Still with the "if you don't believe in my way you're unsaved', eh Atwood? Again, it's remarks like that that most clearly say you're off base.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, Ricky.

What is there to argue about; just do it.

 

[Atwood]

You don't have to tell them not to ,all you have to do is make it seem pointless...remember satan in the garden...you will not surly die if you eat.
do you remember this quote?

It is not pointless to be water baptized. It is a way of telling the world that you believe the Lord Jesus died and rose again. It can be a way of testifying that you believe you died and rose with Him. Anything that glorifies the Lord Jesus is important.

But don't start trusting in a ritual performance for salvation. Salvation is not by any human work.

So what are you telling them, NewB?: "You shall not surely have eternal life if you believe." Sure, you get a chance, but it is not surely."

"You get a chance, but you have to dance."

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

Baptized does not say not in water" poor reasoning"

No, it is not poor reasoning. Since there are different baptisms in the Bible, we have an interpretation to do if neither Spirit nor water is in the passage.

Doctrine does require some reasoning. So I start with the principle called "The Analogy of the Faith." (No scripture is of private interpretation). Consider the context, which is the entire Bible. God does not contradict Himself; it all has to fit together some way.

So I start with the observation that many, many, many times salvation is offered just for believing/faith in the Lord Jesus. Thus nothing else can be essential.

Also, we consider a rock solid fact that human works do not save. (For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.)

So then one needs a reasonable explanation for any verses that on first glance may not seem to fit those facts. So when a few rare passages relate baptism to salvation, a reasonable explanation is that they refer to Spirit baptism, which is not a work of man and is salvific. Water baptism is excluded as a work of man. And if it turns out that none of those verses mention water, that must be observed also.

The advertisement by the Divine Advertiser is "Believe on the Lord Jesus [Christ], and you shall be saved." He is not a false advertiser. Now you know that it is not going to happen at the Great White Throne Judgment that somebody who believed is being sent to the Lake of Fire & is going to say to the Lord: I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, but you didn't save me, as you said you would if I believed on Him."

Now you know very well that if a dept store put out 1000 ads offering baseball bats for $10, and 1 ad saying "baseball bats for $10 plus an egg," the store would be obligated to sell the bat for $10 without any egg required. Both business offers would have to be fulfilled upon demand. I suppose someone might throw an egg at the owner if he refused to sell for $10 and demanded an egg also.

So figure out the rare baptism verses as you will, but remember that Whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (not 15 minutes of life & you are out of luck if you goof up some way)

 

[newbirth]

Re: Is Man's Will Your Idol?

"If ye died with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, do ye subject yourselves to ordinances, Handle not, nor taste, nor touch (all which things are to perish with the using), after the precepts and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will-worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but are not of any value against the indulgence of the flesh." < Colossians

those who died with Christ are risen in newness of life same Colossians next chapter
3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

[SUP]6 [/SUP]For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

Potter telling clay to put on and put off... will clay obey?

Is anyone interested in being clay in the Potter's hands?

Those are strong hands, from which no one (not even yourself) can snatch you away.

John 10


I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep. He that is a hireling, and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholdeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth, and the wolf snatcheth them, and scattereth them: he fleeth because he is a hireling, and careth not for the sheep. I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own, and mine own know me, even as the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. . . .


But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.

You still don't get it do you? his sheep put on and put off ...they obey

 

[Atwood]

Re: Given Before Times Eternal. Does 2 Timothy 1 Imply Eternal Security?

Okay, I'll do it for you again.
This is rehash info.
How are we Abraham's children?
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of [the same] faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

OK, Know. So if you trust Christ as Savior (have faith in Him), for are children of Abraham. To be a son of in Hebrew idiom is to have the characteristics of -- like "sons of thunder" would mean that you acted thunderous. So I take this one to mean that if we trust Christ, we are like Abraham, who is famous for faith.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of [the same] faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
We are the children of Abraham through the same spirit of faith that was on him. At least some spirits have the ability to multiply themselves. The spirit of faith is one of them. We cannot be his offspring except we have to have something in us that came from him. Even as God is our Father because we have His Spirit in us.

It doesn't say "the same." To be of faith means to be one who trusts the Lord. This passage does not say "spirit of faith." I think you are off on that subject.

Num 11:25 And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took [a part] of the spirit that was upon him (Moses), and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
It is the law of Genesis. Everything produces after its own kind.

Strange incense, Know. The word "part" does not occur. It says nothing about "produces." I think you are reading in things that are not there, and jumping to strange conclusions.

Remember, the word and law of God is spiritual, and the law of Genesis applies to the spirit world as much as it does ours.
Spirits can procreate themselves like trees, as was the case of Moses and the seventy elders. As every tree produces seed after its own kind. The same holds true with the spirits. A spirit of faith will produce little seeds or offspring of faith.

You are making up things now, not in scripture. The Law of Moses was for an earthly people, Israel.
That is speculative nonsense.

2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; According to the bible, faith is a spirit. It puts its seed/offspring in your heart when you hear the truth of God's word or the gospel.
The word of God says we are born again by the word of God.

The passage does not say that "faith is a Spirit." It is paralleled by "I believed." The text makes sense as: if you have a spirit of faith, you have a spirit characterized by trusting the Lord, a spirit that believes. It doesn't say that faith is something abstract made out of spirit. ROFL

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The word of God is alive, and it is of and from Jesus. It is through the word of God abiding in our hearts, that we are called the children of God. If the word doesn't abide in us, then neither does Jesus, which is how we receive Him by faith. When we agree with the truth, the truth/Jesus comes in our hearts. When we agree with a lie of the devil, it too comes in your heart. The same holds true with the faith of Abraham.

Again, you are making things up, or following someone who did. We are called children of God, if we are, because we received a begetting from God, we are new creatures, born again. Belief comes by hearing the Word of God. Faith/belief is what brings us this new birth.

BTW, in context, surely "The Word of God is living" refers to the Lord Jesus Himself. Agreeing with the truth is important. Christ dwells in the heart (not periphery) of the Christian through faith (Eph 3). If you have no scripture to prove your "lie of the devil" theory, I would drop it. But it is true that the enemy works with deception, delusion, and confusion.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Is Man's Will Your Idol?

You still don't get it do you? his sheep put on and put off ...they obey

Clay submits.

Sheep sometimes disobey, but they never stop being sheep. And Christ's sheep have eternal life & they shall never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[RickyZ]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, Ricky.

What is there to argue about; just do it.

It's your assumption that I don't that I have a problem with.

 

[Sinnner]

Still with the "if you don't believe in my way you're unsaved', eh Atwood? Again, it's remarks like that that most clearly say you're off base.

Matthew 10:14 "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.

I've given up, he will never see the truth. Satan has blinded him.

 

[newbirth]

It is not pointless to be water baptized. It is a way of telling the world that you believe the Lord Jesus died and rose again. It can be a way of testifying that you believe you died and rose with Him. Anything that glorifies the Lord Jesus is important.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

But don't start trusting in a ritual performance for salvation. Salvation is not by any human work.

How come men use this scripture to try to prove a trinity but cannot see it as a command from God.Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
now it has become a ritual.

So what are you telling them, NewB?: "You shall not surely have eternal life if you believe." Sure, you get a chance, but it is not surely."

it is you who said... " It can be a way of testifying that you believe you died and rose with Him." so if you believe you testify...

"You get a chance, but you have to dance."

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

plain and simple you believe you obey...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

plain and simple you believe you obey...

so will you be perfect in obedience. or will you stumble and fall many times over your christian life (say like a sheep who walks away from the flock)?

 

[tribesman]

I would call it satanic to think that what God has already accomplished can be undone. And its definitely satanic and antichrist to think that anything else than the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone saves sinners. To deny this and put justification, even at the tiniest "part", on the sinner is damnable heresy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would call it satanic to think that what God has already has accomplished can be undone. And its definitely satanic and antichrist to think that anything else than the atoning blood and imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ alone saves sinners. To deny this and put justification, even at the tiniest "part", on the sinner is damnable heresy.

I would say God agrees with you, or better yet, you agree with God (wink)

 

[tribesman]

I would say God agrees with you, or better yet, you agree with God (wink)

As it's written:

Ps.133

[1] Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

 

[homwardbound]

I like the Dr. Who & Star Trek analogies but I think relying on God and entering His rest is not necessarily a "do nothing" proposition. The Israelites believed and celebrated the Passover, but then they didn't believe that after God had overcome one superpower in Egypt that He could help them overcome the Canaanites, they shrunk back. What God wanted them to do was not "do nothing" He wanted them to trust Him. While I agree that trust sometimes means doing nothing--like the fact that I don't work to enter heaven, Christ has done that--I also think that trust is sometimes active, I actively believe God and then rest in His rest.

I suggest an interesting book written by Frank Parretti, called "This present darkness" and its sequel,"Beyond this present darkness"

Check them out, don't like throw them away

Frank Parretti, has got a grasp here in these books about the Spiritual warefare

In reality Father is in control with Jesus the Christ, Son, and the warfare, we are in is not carnal its Spiritual, and we follow our leader God the Father of Son, the Christ. And if God says do nothing, will you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As it's written:

Amen and Amen. A unified body with CHRIST as the head (not men and their silly ideas who profess to be wise, but are fools because they can't get out of the way of SELF)

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Old Water Baptism Canard: Water Baptism Does Not Save.

By Atwood

Where does the Bible say that the baptism of John is not continuous with Christian water baptism?
Where does scripture say that it ended?
Now it does contrast with the Baptism of the Spirit.

[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.



Jesus hung around Forty days after he was risen from the dead by Father, and explained all that took place and why. And when he left Ascended, they were to wait for the Holy Spirit of Father to come. The same Holy Spirit (Father) to come and live not only in them, yet through them, and Pentecost came and this happened, 3,000 were saved, by the disciples or God working through the disciples?

John's Baptism is over and it was for to announce the Messiah and John announced this and even said after that, he announce Jesus the Christ as here, that he must decrease and Christ increase
So how does the world see this? You must be water Baptized and we the preachers of today must confirm you or else?
Truth or error, you all? You decide, your decision here is between God and you to what is truth and what is not.
I am trusting God to reveal the whole truth to whom God decides to reveal it to.
Hoping we see our depravity as in the prodigal Son, and returns to at least be a hired hand, and stops listening to this world and its gloss it has taken on

F. J. Huegel:Bone of His Bone.Table of Contents
An interesting deep read, might like it, but it is deep, worth the read, yet discern all things with the hidden man of your heart. thanks

 

[homwardbound]

1 John 5:5-8
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? [SUP]6 [/SUP]This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For there are three that testify: [SUP]8 [/SUP]the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Matthew 3:13-17
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Jesus *arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” [SUP]15 [/SUP]But Jesus answering said to him, “Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he *permitted Him. [SUP]16 [/SUP]After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him, [SUP]17 [/SUP]and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

1 Timothy 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Tell me. If Jesus, being perfect, was baptized into water, then why do you teach that we should not be baptized in water. Now I do agree that it is the baptism in the Holy Spirit that saves, but I certainly do not believe that you should teach people not to be baptized in water.

I don't believe in scenarios where someone dies on the way to be baptized in water...and in turn are not saved - God is more powerful than that. But I do believe that we should be baptized in water as we received the example from Jesus, Paul, and those that the Apostles baptized (in water).

Water Baptism is for a good conscience, between God and you, not between you and your Church?
Think and chew on that for a minute, praying you are listening
I went to a Church, certain denomination, said I beleive, got water Baptized and accepted by those people there. Later I left, called away, went to another Church, told them I am saved, I beleive and have been water Baptized. I was told I am not saved. I asked why, I have been baptized and do believe. And they said I am not saved still, I said what if I get water Baptized in your Church, and it was unanimous then I would be saved

What is wrong with this picture, are Man's fingerprints all over it?
God saves, man corrupts

 

[homwardbound]

Timeline, I have never told anyone not to be baptized in water. I have objected to trusting in water for salvation, instead of in the Savior alone. By all means, a new believer should be baptized, ASAP. I objected to Campus Crusade neglecting water baptism.

(Digression, but I do teach that the Law of Moses is over and that we ought not to be keeping the Law of Moses, impossible anyway -- but the Lord Jesus did, as it was still in force until the cross.)

Timeline, I think what misled you was reading someone's else's false accusation -- this is called gossip and judging -- LOL. I have been amazed in life at how very effective bad-mouthing people behind their back can be. It is called "poisoning the well." People believe the slander.

Just take a pure glass of water (the Christ) and put one drop of ink into that glass of water.
Is it tainted?
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

So anyone, if this is true, which is, as what I see, then if God said sit, I would sit, would you?
The problem I see today is hard of hearing and knowing God's voice. Now for those of you that do beleive, I say do not give up as Abraham, did not give up, yet made mistakes as we all have along the way and it took about 29 years for Abraham to be 100% positive to know Father's voice and took his promised child to sacrifice and trusted Father all the way, and Father came through
So go ahead you all fight the good fight, trust God to learn from all your mistakes, commit all yuo do unto the Lord and Father will straighten out your path, guaranteed Why?
Father and Son are Faithful to carry on the good work started in anyone who believes from the very first day of belief, so do you believe Father period, do you beleive what his Son did for you or have you asked Father this?
[h=3]Ephesians 1:13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

If I see me not at peace, then I am being carnally minded am I not? And you all, do you see this?

 

[homwardbound]

Re: Given Before Times Eternal. Does 2 Timothy 1 Imply Eternal Security?

You can cite the entire Bible but you cannot find a text that says man is incapable of losing faith. However, you will find hundreds that say he can lose faith.

By your listings I would presume that you believe one can ONLY be saved if they believe, have faith. So, where is the text that either says man is incapable of losing faith, or that faith is actually not a requirement for attaining eternal life.

All of these citations have conditions attached to them. You are doing a masterful job at reputiating most of scripture, some it is, though serious, is actually quite humorous.

Father does not lose Faith and can't, Father tells truth and if Father tells you, you are:
Romans 8:16

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

If Father has told you this Cassian then are you or are you not his Child?



So if not, maybe time to beg to be, Oh Lord have Mercy on me. And I am not saying I am better than you or anyone, since God has confirmed me. I did much hard work for many years before entering into God's rest. Now that I see this beyond this world, I understand what I see as temporal, and what I do not see is forever
Anyway it is your free choice as well and I personally can only deliver the newspaper of good news
Christ my savior, my peace, my righteousness all tied up in Christ's finished work for me to now have finally entered with thanks giving and praise at rest
I was like the prodigal Son story, ywt believed all along and tried to do waht wqas right all along and just could.t measure up as many here today in this world do not and know this deep inside and each day get up and put that mask of I'm okay, when in truth we are not. This world as taken on the gloss of Christ, and acts out as if they got it together when in reality they are a wreck and know it behind closed doors, in need of the new life Christ came to give, and is given by Father at the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth
Love to you from Father pleading for you

And so today I work harder than ever before the difference is I am at rest now