It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[kennethcadwell]

[h=3]Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV / 48 helpful votes[/h] For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

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[h=3]James 1:12 ESV / 26 helpful votes[/h] Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.

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[h=3]1 Timothy 4:16 ESV / 20 helpful votes[/h] Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

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[h=3]2 Corinthians 11:3 ESV / 19 helpful votes[/h] But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

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[h=3]Revelation 2:4-5 ESV / 16 helpful votes[/h] But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

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[h=3]1 Timothy 4:1 ESV / 16 helpful votes[/h] Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

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[h=3]2 Peter 2:20-22 ESV / 15 helpful votes[/h] For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

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[h=3]2 Peter 1:5-10 ESV / 11 helpful votes[/h] For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Notice if you continue in doing good you will be saved, else wise you will be cut off ( lose salvation ).

 

[Atwood]

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, by beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

I will not end up in the lake of fire because I believe in our Lord.

Matthew 10:22 " And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. "

Matthew 24:13 " But he who endures to the end shall be saved. "

Kenneth, pardon me for observing that you are contradicting yourself.
You say "I will not end up in the lake of fire because I believe in our Lord."
That is a solid Christian statement which sounds like you trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
But at the same time you seem to be arguing that no Christian has security, and may be lost.
Can't you see you contradict yourself?

You cannot both be sure that you will God to Heaven and think that you can be lost & go to the Lake of Fire.

The latter implies you regard Christ as a chance-giver, rather than as Savior.

As to Philip 2:13, it says nothing about losing salvation, nor does it say that works bring salvation; otherwise the Lord is contradicting Himself. Our salvation does result in good works. Now Philip 2:14 goes on to say that it is God who works in the Christian both to will & to do.

Mat 10; 24 sigh. Kenneth, why is it you can't seem to get it that eternal security implies that believers endure to the end? And Mat 10 has to to with the Tribulation anyway, not with salvation from the Lake of Fire.

How is it that you keep coming back to this? Mat 10 & 24 do not say that you get salvation by enduring; there is no term of agency or instrumentality there. The saved do endure & their endurance is the necessary outcome of their salvation, even if you take the "endure to the end" out of context.

I will not end up in the lake of fire because I believe in our Lord.

You are affirming eternal security here.
Which is it? Can you lose your salvation? Then you regard Christ as only a chance-giver.
Or are you certain that He will keep His promise to you of eternal life? In that case you trust Him as Savior.
Which is it?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Like I said I believe in eternal salvation, but I believe it comes at the end after you have endured the trials and tribulations. Not when you first accept Jesus.

Plus I am sorry that you can not comprehend or just don't like the scriptures that speak of those who fall away, and how you can not read a simple scripture that clearly does say, persevere to the end to be saved.

You are refuting or going against what Jesus said by saying that scripture does not say that. It does clearly say that as well as others that I have posted that say the same. To endure, persevere, or stay firm in walk in Gods way, or you to will be cast out. I am sorry that you can not see this and I pray to God He will open your eyes so that you to can teach others the warnings just like the Apostles did.

Not one of them said believe He existed and no matter what you do from here don't worry you are saved. They all gave warnings on how to walk, and not to be deceived, or fall back to this world. Matthew 10 is not for the tribulation period, it gives this to His disciples when He first sends them out to heal, cast out demons, and spread the good news. If enduring to the end to be saved applied then, and it applies at the end during tribulation, it also applies to us now.

To say we do not have to persevere/endure to the end to be saved means you are saying we are better than the believers before us and after us. The scriptures clearly state nobody is better then another.

Kenneth, pardon me for observing that you are contradicting yourself.
You say "I will not end up in the lake of fire because I believe in our Lord."
That is a solid Christian statement which sounds like you trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
But at the same time you seem to be arguing that no Christian has security, and may be lost.
Can't you see you contradict yourself?

You cannot both be sure that you will God to Heaven and think that you can be lost & go to the Lake of Fire.

The latter implies you regard Christ as a chance-giver, rather than as Savior.

As to Philip 2:13, it says nothing about losing salvation, nor does it say that works bring salvation; otherwise the Lord is contradicting Himself. Our salvation does result in good works. Now Philip 2:14 goes on to say that it is God who works in the Christian both to will & to do.

Mat 10; 24 sigh. Kenneth, why is it you can't seem to get it that eternal security implies that believers endure to the end? And Mat 10 has to to with the Tribulation anyway, not with salvation from the Lake of Fire.

How is it that you keep coming back to this? Mat 10 & 24 do not say that you get salvation by enduring; there is no term of agency or instrumentality there. The saved do endure & their endurance is the necessary outcome of their salvation, even if you take the "endure to the end" out of context.

I will not end up in the lake of fire because I believe in our Lord.

You are affirming eternal security here.
Which is it? Can you lose your salvation? Then you regard Christ as only a chance-giver.
Or are you certain that He will keep His promise to you of eternal life? In that case you trust Him as Savior.
Which is it?

 

[Atwood]

Romans 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

Notice if you continue in doing good you will be saved, else wise you will be cut off ( lose salvation ).

Rom 11 is not about the salvation of individual persons. Read the context. It is about major historical movements and eschatology. It start out with election & ends with eternal security. The argument is over the future of Israel. At the present gentiles predominate in the Abrahamic blessing, where Israel should naturally belong. Old translations like the KJV at least have the advantage of telling you when you is singular & when plural. In 11:22 the Gentiles as a whole are called by the singular pronoun (thou). It is not referring to an individual believer, but the position of Gentiles collectively. The Lord may go back to running a program where Israel is prominent instead of Gentiles.

I posted on this at length. Did you miss it?

Highlights of Rom 11:

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. But if it is by grace, it is no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. . . .

I say then, Did they stumble that they might fall? God forbid: but by their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy. Now if their fall is the riches of the world, and their loss the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? . . . For if the casting away of them is the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? And if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump: and if the root is holy, so are the branches. But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, [The Gentiles collectively]

being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree; glory not over the branches: but if thou gloriest, it is not thou that bearest the root, but the root
thee [The Gentiles collectively]

Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear: for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee. Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God’s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?


For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant of this mystery, lest ye be wise in your own conceits, that a hardening in part hath befallen Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written,
There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer;
He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
And this is my covenant unto them,
When I shall take away their sins.


As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of.

That is 11:29, which illustrated how one needs to keep reading when one comes to a passage that one thinks indicates a loss of salvation. There is no way to interpret Rom 11 in contradiction with 11:29. The topic is not individual salvation, but collective movements of God with Israel & the Gentiles. Nonetheless, the principle of 11:29 remains true however applied.

the gifts and the calling of God are not repented of

 

[Atwood]

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV / 48 helpful votes

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

After all the times this has been quoted here, at this point is it honest not to keep quoting through 6:9 where it is clearly explained that the preceding are characteristics which do not belong to a saved person?

None of your other verses say you can lose salvation, neither does Heb 6.

When will you stop regarding Christ as a mere chance-giver, and actually trust Him as Savior?

So long as you argue that you can lose salvation, you imply that you do not trust Him as Savior, but only as a chance-giver

 

[Cassian]

Kenneth, pardon me for observing that you are contradicting yourself.
You say "I will not end up in the lake of fire because I believe in our Lord."
That is a solid Christian statement which sounds like you trust the Lord Jesus as your Savior.
But at the same time you seem to be arguing that no Christian has security, and may be lost.
Can't you see you contradict yourself?

You cannot both be sure that you will God to Heaven and think that you can be lost & go to the Lake of Fire.

The latter implies you regard Christ as a chance-giver, rather than as Savior.

As to Philip 2:13, it says nothing about losing salvation, nor does it say that works bring salvation; otherwise the Lord is contradicting Himself. Our salvation does result in good works. Now Philip 2:14 goes on to say that it is God who works in the Christian both to will & to do.

Mat 10; 24 sigh. Kenneth, why is it you can't seem to get it that eternal security implies that believers endure to the end? And Mat 10 has to to with the Tribulation anyway, not with salvation from the Lake of Fire.

How is it that you keep coming back to this? Mat 10 & 24 do not say that you get salvation by enduring; there is no term of agency or instrumentality there. The saved do endure & their endurance is the necessary outcome of their salvation, even if you take the "endure to the end" out of context.

I will not end up in the lake of fire because I believe in our Lord.

You are affirming eternal security here.
Which is it? Can you lose your salvation? Then you regard Christ as only a chance-giver.
Or are you certain that He will keep His promise to you of eternal life? In that case you trust Him as Savior.
Which is it?

You did a masterful job of annihilating Deut 31:5-6 and in this post you assume that our Bibles have only 10 or 12 verses in them, the same as yours. But in the context of the NT, ES does not exist in a covenant between two parties. YOu are still conflating salvation with eternal life, as well as assuming the Bible teaches the Anselmian version of atonement. YOu have so many false techings converging I can see the great difficulty you have in actually understanding someone else's view, even if you don't believe it.
You cannot even summarize it correctly without creating your strawmen, which may be your intent anyway.

We are all still waiting for your evidence in scripture for ES, OSAS, OOS.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You are lost my friend. Romans 11 is not about salvation ? It certainly is, it talks about how we were grafted in and therefore must stay grafted in or else we will be cut off. Just like it says about the Jews, if they continue in unbelief they to will be cut off.

The gifts of God are irrevocable is true. But this is where you falter, because our Lord will never take the gift of salvation away form us. It will always be there to accept, but can one refuse that gift...Yes they can, and they can refuse it at any time or take it away from themselves by falling back into the temptation of this world as the scripture clearly states.

You are right in one must keep reading, but it comes down to you must read all scriptures from every book in the bible to get the full meaning. The scriptures can not contradict themselves, so if some speak of falling away and being cast out, and others speak of enduring or persevering to the end for salvation, then others speak of not being taken away or irrevocable then you must see a pattern that must take place.

If you do not see the pattern then you make a gift that can not be taken away, and falling away contradict. For one can not fall away if the gift can not be taken away, but the scriptures say some do.

Which is why I have seen the pattern:

Believe in Jesus Christ, endure / persevere to the end, then achieve eternal salvation.

 

[Atwood]

Like I said I believe in eternal salvation, but I believe it comes at the end after you have endured the trials and tribulations. Not when you first accept Jesus.

Thus you don't believe you have salvation now, and thus you do not trust Christ as Savior, but you reduce Him to chance-giver.

How many times do you need the proof? For by grace you have been saved (literally are having been saved) -- it refers to the past. Salvation comes in 3 tenses, and the completion of it is guaranteed.

He who began a good work in you will complete it.

You are refuting or going against what Jesus said by saying that scripture does not say that. It does clearly say that as well as others that I have posted that say the same. To endure, persevere, or stay firm in walk in Gods way, or you to will be cast out.

Scripture says no such thing.
You have not one verse that says that.
What it teaches is that the believer does endure.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Matthew 10 is not for the tribulation period, it gives this to His disciples when He first sends them out to heal, cast out demons, and spread the good news. If enduring to the end to be saved applied then, and it applies at the end during tribulation, it also applies to us now.

Read Mat 10. It stretches to the 2nd coming of Christ to the earth to take over. The Trib comes before that. And at any rate, since all believers endure, it is also true under eternal security. It in no way contradicts the doctrine that all believers endure.

"And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child: and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come."

To say we do not have to persevere/endure to the end to be saved means you are saying we are better than the believers before us and after us. The scriptures clearly state nobody is better then another.

You don't seem to read what I posted Kenneth. Eternal security is the doctrine that all the saved endure. And no, the scriptures do not teach that nobody is better than another. You cannot prove that one either.

But admit it; you do not trust Christ as Savior; you regard Him as a chance-giver, and you do not have the belief that He will definitely get you to Heaven.

You don't believe: "He shall save His people from their sins." You think sometimes He fails at it. And in fact you seem desperate to try to prove that the Lord Jesus cannot be trusted with one's eternal destiny.

 

[Atwood]

You are lost my friend. Romans 11 is not about salvation ? It certainly is, it talks about how we were grafted in and therefore must stay grafted in or else we will be cut off. Just like it says about the Jews, if they continue in unbelief they to will be cut off.

It is not about individuals but collective groups. And 11:29 clearly states that the gifts & calling of God are not repented of; so you cannot interpret a passage off topic to contradict that.

The gifts of God are irrevocable is true. But this is where you falter, because our Lord will never take the gift of salvation away form us. It will always be there to accept, but can one refuse that gift...Yes they can, and they can refuse it at any time or take it away from themselves by falling back into the temptation of this world as the scripture clearly states.

The passage says no such thing. It says once you get a gift from God, like salvation that gift is not revoked. There is no question of refusing the gift. Israel has this promise of ultimate salvation & it shall be performed. The Christian has received the gift, & it will not be revoked. You are not in a position to refuse a gift after it is yours. You are making things up here about falling back, when scripture says no such thing.

The scriptures can not contradict themselves, so if some speak of falling away and being cast out, and others speak of enduring or persevering to the end for salvation, then others speak of not being taken away or irrevocable then you must see a pattern that must take place.

Lose & salvation never even occur in one verse. There is not one verse that says a saved person loses salvation; that would be self contradictory, as if you end up in Hell, you were never saved from it.

but the scriptures say some do.

No, they do not. And you cannot find one verse where a saved person loses salvation.

Believe in Jesus Christ, endure / persevere to the end, then achieve eternal salvation.

You never achieve salvation. It is not an achievement; not by works. You get it when you trust Christ as Savior. It is mentioned both as past gift & as future promise fulfilled.

I give them [present tense, not future] eternal life [stretches to future forever],
and they shall never perish.

An eternal guarantee.

When will you repent of your sin of saying one may not trust Christ as Savior, but relegating Him to "chance-giver"?

 

[Atwood]

You did a masterful job of annihilating Deut 31:5-6

You mean that I showed that it did not pertain to all physical Israel but to Joshua? You were trying to demolish a promise in Hebrews that the Lord would not leave or forsake a believer, which remains true.

But in the context of the NT, ES does not exist in a covenant between two parties.

What is your proof of that? Are you saying that the New Covenant doesn't have 2 parties? It has at least 2 parties, though God is the only one doing the saving in it.

your evidence in scripture for ES, OSAS, OOS.

It has been abundantly posted. You don't need any more repetitions. But if someone else asks, who has not already gotten the abundant testimony, I shall be happy to post it to that person. And I intend to keep posting it to this thread.

 

[Atwood]

Which is why I have seen the pattern:

Believe in Jesus Christ, endure / persevere to the end, then achieve eternal salvation.

Here is the Bible pattern, Kenneth:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. No ifs ands or buts. No works stuck in, no achievement badges.

 

[RickyZ]

Here is the Bible pattern, Kenneth:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. No ifs ands or buts. No works stuck in, no achievement badges.

So if you stop believing then...

Oh that's right you think that's impossible!

 

[newbirth]

ou infer a causal relationship where none is implied. The sheep hear and follow. Also He gives them eternal life. There is no hint of a condition, but rather a fact. If you are a sheep he gives you eternal life. So when will you trust Him, NewB?

The text is clear. There is one condition to becoming a sheep. If you are a sheep, then you recognize Christ's voice & you follow. Also He gives you eternal life. It is AND, not if.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.
My sheep

1) hear my voice, and
2) I know them, and
3) they follow me:
and [ not if the preceding ]
4) I give to them eternal life; and
5) they shall never perish, and
6) no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

We are connecting as the Bible connects -- no conditional connections were there are none.




NewB,
Do you feel uncomfortable, not trusting Christ as Savior, but as "chance-giver"?

Now there is preposterous statement: "the non believing sheep." Where do you find any non-believing sheep? "Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep." The sheep are believers; unbelievers are non-sheep.

Non believers are not his sheep that is what it says ,,,Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

I agree. First he tells the unbeliever that they are not his sheep. In the quote there is not an invitation to become a sheep or a believer, but an explanation of the status of the unsaved. "Ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep."

He tells them why they are not his sheep then went on to identify his sheep

Then indeed, he does make identifying statements of the sheep (believers) and state what He gives His sheep. But given that they are sheep, there is no condition on the gift of eternal life; it is a fact of what the Lord gives His sheep.

In these sentences you have (the sheep) then (His sheep) then (sheep) and last (His sheep) you have to be consistent it is His sheep all the way. That what you are doing is called deception....

This is nothing about what I want; it is about what the Lord has promised.

Then why do you keep twisting his Word

The text is clear. There is one condition to becoming a sheep. If you are a sheep, then you recognize Christ's voice & you follow. Also He gives you eternal life. It is AND, not if.

Again misdirection His sheep hear his voice...I have no doubt you are a sheep the question is if you are HIS sheep...big difference

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.
My sheep

1) hear my voice, and
2) I know them, and
3) they follow me:
and [ not if the preceding ]
4) I give to them eternal life; and
5) they shall never perish, and
6) no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

We are connecting as the Bible connects -- no conditional connections are given between hearing voice and following. There are no such conditions at all.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Repent NewB. Repent of regarding Christ as a "chance-giver," instead of a Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

His sheep hear and follow....

 

[Atwood]

So if you stop believing then...

Oh that's right you think that's impossible!

For a man who once trusted Christ as Savior to stop trusting Christ as Savior is not Biblical. That which was begotten of God in the Christian, the believer's new nature, does not sin (1 John). That is how He began a new work in the Christian, a re-creation, a transformation of the old. He "Who began a good work in you will complete it." He is the author & perfecter of our faith. We see how this was done with Peter; the Lord Jesus prayed that Peter's faith fail not.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus [Yehoshua' = YHWH {is} salvation},
for He shall save His people from their sins.

He is truly the Savior, not just a chance-giver.
I trust Him as my savior.

 

[Atwood]

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Amen.
Isaiah 53 describes Israel as LIKE sheep that went astray. It uses sheep in a figurative sense for straying. John 10 uses sheep to illustrate a different topic.

His sheep hear and follow....

Amen. Yes, that is their characteristics. But also of the sheep it is said that the Lord Jesus gives them eternal life, and they shall never perish -- nothing about condition, cause, or result between those characteristics, & Christ's gift. Eternal life is not earned, it is the gift of God. "The wages of sin is death." You earn that one. "but the free gift of God is eternal life, in Jesus Christ our Lord." That one is not earned, it is not of works, but a free gift.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep.
My sheep

1) hear my voice, and
2) I know them, and
3) they follow me:
and [ not if the preceding ]
4) I give to them eternal life; and
5) they shall never perish, and
6) no one shall snatch them out of my hand.
My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatchthem out of the Father’s hand.

We are connecting as the Bible connects -- no conditional connections are given between hearing voice and following. There are no such conditions at all.

Dear NewB,
will this be the day when you stop denying the saving ability of Christ, when you stop thinking of Him as a chance-giver, and start trusting Him to be your complete Savior?

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[newbirth]

You don't believe: "He shall save His people from their sins." You think sometimes He fails at it. And in fact you seem desperate to try to prove that the Lord Jesus cannot be trusted with one's eternal destiny.

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

You seem to be stuck here time to move forward.....

 

[newbirth]

For a man who once trusted Christ as Savior to stop trusting Christ as Savior is not Biblical. That which was begotten of God in the Christian, the believer's new nature, does not sin (1 John). That is how He began a new work in the Christian, a re-creation, a transformation of the old. He "Who began a good work in you will complete it." He is the author & perfecter of our faith. We see how this was done with Peter; the Lord Jesus prayed that Peter's faith fail not.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus [Yehoshua' = YHWH {is} salvation},
for He shall save His people from their sins.

He is truly the Savior, not just a chance-giver.
I trust Him as my savior.

This is yet another loop Atwood yes He is our saviour but also out Lord (Master)...you need to move forward
Acts 3:22
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you

 

[konroh]

Where is the middle and I believe biblical ground?

We trust in Christ for salvation, when we do we are saved ( Tit. 3:5) and we will be glorified (Rom 8). But we are clearly called to persevere in doing good and not fall away, we can fall away from present salvation (sanctification). Notice in Rom 8 we are called and justified and glorified, we are eternally secure, we are saved, but we can fall away from present salvation (Heb. 6, 2 Peter 2, etc). A believer can stop persevering, but salvation is dependent both on God's calling and choosing and the believer's responding and faithing. What God does cannot be undone, the believer can stop believing, but they will still be justified and glorified, but they will not be sanctified, they will have their works burned up at the bema seat, they will suffer loss and shame, yet they will be saved, "yet so as by fire."

 

[Atwood]

ES: Do You Believe that Eternal Means Eternal? Forever = Forever?

For this God is our God for ever and ever:
He will be our guide even unto death. - Ps 48

Cf. the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31ff

says YHWH; I will put my law in their inward parts, and
in their heart will I write it; and
I will be their God, and
they shall be my people.

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.