It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Cassian]

Yes you did Because you ignore the fact peter told them to make sure their salvation was real (confirmed) why does one have to make sure their salvation is real if they are already saved.

The sin issue of what he said is not even come into play. other than to say are you sinning because your not elect.

The term "old sin" refers to his old nature. Not the sins he committed in the past. The rest of the NT confirms this interpretation.



The word repent is not even used. He said.

Make sure your calling and election is sure, confirmed, real, verified.

It is like James, Can faith without works save you. Make sure your faith is confirmed, and not dead. because a dead faith will save no one

You two, atwood and you contradict yourself many times. You are so confused on the issue you have no idea of what you are saying. You think your opponents are earning salvation when not only is it untrue, but the continued misuse of the word salvation makes you stumble as well. We are actually speaking about eternal life.
Now Atwood says a work is a work does not matter where the work or why the work occurs it has nothing to do with ones salvation. Then you cite James and say that if ones faith does not have works it is a dead faith. You two aught to get on the same page with the same false teaching, or are there two different OSAS versions?

Your citing of James is a direct contradiction of OSAS anyway because it uses the word faith. We are being saved through faith. We have possession of eternal life, but do not have it finitely, because man can and does lose faith. Very simply, if one loses faith, they have also lost eternal life. Unless you can find a text that one is saved without faith or with a dead faith, then you have a point.

One tests his faith to make sure his election is sure because WE ARE ATTAINING ETERNAL LIFE. We do not have it finitely, absolutely upon one time mental affirmation of faith. It must be continuous and active to the end of ones life, or repentance and confession of ones sins that caused the separation.

You also conviently misinterpret II Tim 2:12-13. It clearly states that God will deny him who has denied Him. That is a promise also, to which He will be faithful. Paul is addressing believers, not unbelievers.

Basically, OSAS does not have a leg to stand on, as long as one does not change the meaning of scripture to support aother false teaching such as OSAS.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You two, atwood and you contradict yourself many times. You are so confused on the issue you have no idea of what you are saying.

everything you wrote fits this description.

Try studying for a change. and come back when you have..

oh wait, I forgot You can;t study, The bible is not your sole source. and you have not even been given authority to learn on your own. (or were you orthodox? There are so close I can;t tell the difference)

 

[Cassian]

That is utterly illogical. It does not follow because a prophet refers to someone's old sins being forgiven that his future ones are not also forgiven. How could he speak of them having forgotten future sins??? The only sins that one could forget are old sins.

As I showed you from Hebrews, he could not have sanctified forever, perfected forever the Christian by His one sacrifice on the cross, without supplying forgiveness for all sins. And the only sins He could forgive at the cross were future sins, because we did not yet even live.

Did Christ forgive sin from/on the Cross?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did Christ forgive sin from/on the Cross?

Behold the LAMB of God. WHo TAKES AWAY the sin of the world.

according to the law. What did the lamb do to procure redemption or atonement.

for someone who claims to be so smart. You seem to be lacking alot of knowledge or reasoning skills.

 

[Cassian]

Re: Will You Shuck & Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?

why do you not try to open your mind and actually read them.. And not blindly skim over them, you might see it..

Only a blind person could not see ES in those passages.

It is because I have opened my mind to the Gospel of Christ that I can see clearly the falsity of such a horrific theory.

 

[Cassian]

Behold the LAMB of God. WHo TAKES AWAY the sin of the world.

according to the law. What did the lamb do to procure redemption or atonement.

for someone who claims to be so smart. You seem to be lacking alot of knowledge or reasoning skills.

But you did not answer the question. Did Christ atone/propitiate the sin of the world, or did He forgive the sin of the world?

So my question still stands, what did Christ do that secures your personal eternal life?

 

[Cassian]

I am going to leave this thread with this:

Atwood and EG I hope one day you actually sit down and talk to a bunch of people who were once a strong follower of, and believer in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. But now do not believe in Him because of a trial or tribulation that occurred in their life causing them to fall away. Maybe then by talking to them you will understand the falling away better.

For they did as you say in order to be saved, and walked the path by doing the will of God for a good portion of their life. But now they deny Him and walk in non-belief.


Example: A boy who was born and raised Christian. He repented of his sins, was baptized, confessed the Lord Jesus on a daily basis, taught the gospel, dedicated his life to helping others, and became a preacher do to his love for Jesus Christ.
Then later in his life a tragedy happened, and he then turned his back on Christ. Now he denies Jesus and lives in non-belief fighting in debates against Christians.

Situations like this happen all the time. These are not apostates, or antichrists ( false teachers ). These are people who lost their faith do trials and tribulations in their life that took their focus off Christ, and put it back on the world.

One of the marks of false teaching is that is has no reality. It is simply a philosophical statement.

 

[kennethcadwell]

That is true. Plus the use of one scripture that only applies to one group to try to define all the groups that come and here the gospel message and how they received.

Our Lord Jesus talks about more than two groups that hear the word and how they receive it in the sower and the seed.
But they take and just want to look at two groups believers and non-believers.
The problem is with this was we were all non-believers before we heard the gospel, then we became believers.
Others stayed non-believers, others accepted it for a little while but did not fully understand so they got deceived, others accepted it but do to trials and tribulations fell away and lost faith.

One of the marks of false teaching is that is has no reality. It is simply a philosophical statement.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But you did not answer the question. Did Christ atone/propitiate the sin of the world, or did He forgive the sin of the world?

So my question still stands, what did Christ do that secures your personal eternal life?

he paid the penalty of sin did he not?

if he did not. none of us will get to heaven now will he?

so what pays for sin.

My faith in the work of Cross?

or all my works?

since when is the penalty of sin to be baptized? to take the eucharist? to give penance? to go to church? to stop sin?

I do not see those punishments for sin anyplace in scripture.

oh and PS. God says he KNEW who would be saved before the world began.. So he forgave sin before the world began, It just did not become a reality until the cross actually happened. And the act of faith actually became alive, But God (who is outside of time, and not limited by time) already knew it)

but I know. You have a pagan God.. who we have to humanize. so we must appease an angry God ourself by making our own propitiation to God (through the many sacraments). or we will be lost forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is true. Plus the use of one scripture that only applies to one group to try to define all the groups that come and here the gospel message and how they received.

Our Lord Jesus talks about more than two groups that hear the word and how they receive it in the sower and the seed.
But they take and just want to look at two groups believers and non-believers.
The problem is with this was we were all non-believers before we heard the gospel, then we became believers.
Others stayed non-believers, others accepted it for a little while but did not fully understand so they got deceived, others accepted it but do to trials and tribulations fell away and lost faith.

there are two groups. Call them what you want,

condemned and not condemned.

Child of God (adopted by God) , Child of satan (birthright through Adam)

Alive in CHrist(born again), Dead to Christ (in need of being born again)

Justified, Guilty

Call it whatever you want, but there are only two groups my friend.

 

[Atwood]

That is true. Plus the use of one scripture that only applies to one group to try to define all the groups that come and here the gospel message and how they received.

Our Lord Jesus talks about more than two groups that hear the word and how they receive it in the sower and the seed.
But they take and just want to look at two groups believers and non-believers.
The problem is with this was we were all non-believers before we heard the gospel, then we became believers.
Others stayed non-believers, others accepted it for a little while but did not fully understand so they got deceived, others accepted it but do to trials and tribulations fell away and lost faith.

There were 4 responses to the Kingdom gospel. Only 1 had the response was acceptable. Like I have said before, doctrine should be based on propositional teaching.

Scripture tells us that the sheep (believers) get eternal life, and will never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

One of the marks of false teaching is that is has no reality. It is simply a philosophical statement.

One of the marks of your teaching Cassian is that it is usually Sola Cassiana.

God so loved the world, that He gave his monogene Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

There is this loving Savior who has bought eternal life for whosoever will trust Him.

 

[Atwood]

But you did not answer the question. Did Christ atone/propitiate the sin of the world, or did He forgive the sin of the world?

So my question still stands, what did Christ do that secures your personal eternal life?

I still wait for a straight answer, Cassian: R U a Universalist?

He paid for my sin on the cross. He suffered the separation from God that sin causes (My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me.) The atonement has been made for everyone; but it is only applied to the one who will believe in the Son of God, trust Him as Savior (not chance-giver). If you have a verse that says He forgives the sins of all men, let me know. I have never seen such a verse. It is obvious that He does not forgive anyone who does not trust Christ as Savior. Forgiveness is a big part of salvation. Men do end up in the Lake of Fire, unfortunately. At the Great White Throne judgment men are judged for their sinful works & cast into the Lake of Fire, a ghastly thought, but taught by God's Word.

To be saved from being unforgiven, to be saved from one's depravity, to be saved unto eternal life, requires trust in the Savior.

Sirs, what MUST-I-DO to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save HIS PEOPLE from THEIR sins.

He takes away the sin of the world, yes. But that makes sense as him stopping sin in the world -- no more sin allowed some day, the kosmos to be cleansed of sin. No one will be allowed to post on the internet claims that Christ is a mere chance-giver & not a Savior for example.

 

[Atwood]

Re: Will You Shuck & Jive to Avoid Eternal Security?

It is because I have opened my mind to the Gospel of Christ that I can see clearly the falsity of such a horrific theory.

Cassian, what horrifies you about the fact (not theory) that Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins?

The only horribleness I can think of is the horror of a man not being able to establish his own self-righteousness; the horror of being made to eat dirt (figuratively); the horror of having to confess that one is a wretched sinner.

Whose mind is so shut but he who denies that Christ is Savior, and wants Christ to be a mere chance-giver?

 

[Atwood]

everything you wrote fits this description.

Try studying for a change. and come back when you have..

oh wait, I forgot You can;t study, The bible is not your sole source. and you have not even been given authority to learn on your own. (or were you orthodox? There are so close I can;t tell the difference)

I understand that Cassian is orthodox and committed to the teaching of his denomination to the point that he only believes the Bible as his denomination interprets it. So theoretically there is no point in talking to him; however, practically, God's word is like a fire & like a hammer that breaks the bones. So despite his theoretical commitment to his denomination as the final authority, sticking Bible in his face may convict him of the truth.

Problem is that the same sun that melts wax, hardens clay.

 

[Atwood]

Did Christ forgive sin from/on the Cross?

Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his bruising we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and Jehovah hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


He was oppressed, yet when he was afflicted he opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who among them considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due? And they made his grave with the wicked, and with a rich man in his death; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.


Yet it pleased Jehovah to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Jehovah shall prosper in his hand. He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by the knowledge of himself shall my righteous servant justify many; and he shall bear their iniquities. Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors: yet he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Heb 10

Lo, I am come to do thy will. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest indeed standeth day by day ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, the which can never take away sins: but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God; henceforth expecting till his enemies be made the footstool of his feet. For by one offering he hath perfected forever them that are sanctified. [without forgiveness Christians would not be perfected forever]

And the Holy Spirit also beareth witness to us; for after he hath said,
This is the covenant that I will make with them
After those days, saith the Lord:
I will put my laws on their heart,
And upon their mind also will I write them;
then saith he,
And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, < 2 cor 5.

I take it that God forgave at the cross, but the forgiveness is not received by the sinner until he trusts the Savior, like a governor issuing a pardon on Jan 1, but the prisoner doesn't get out of jail until the prisoner accepts the pardon on June 1 (or the prisoner refuses the pardon).

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[Atwood]

man can and does lose faith.

As usual Cassian doesn't prove with Bible, he just dogmatically pontificates. He doesn't quote any verse where one who trusts the Lord Jesus as Savior for eternal life, then stops trusting Christ. He has no such scripture, but goes on saying things.

Whatever 2 Tim 2:12-13 means, it says nothing about losing salvation. Salvation doesn't even occur in those verses, though it does say "if we died with him, we shall also live with him" -- that's a good eternal security statement, as all who were baptized into Christ died with Him (Rom 6; cf. Gal 2:20). The co-crucifixion with Christ is a blessing that all baptized into the Body of Christ enjoy.

Eternal security is asserted by many passages, which I have posted.

WE ARE ATTAINING ETERNAL LIFE. We do not have it finitely, absolutely upon one time mental affirmation of faith.

Using capitals is no substitute for Bible proof Cassian. But you do go on. 1 John (for example) says that believers presently have eternal life; you must have seen that quote many times now.

And I have posted on instant salvation a number of times.

Instant Salvation in Past Tense

“Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” (Luke 7:50)

th Zacchaeus.
Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham.” (Luke 19:9)

Evidence of Zacc's instant salvation is found in his instant statement:

But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” (Luke 19:8)

Cornelius was instantly saved when he trusted the Lord Jesus, and no water baptism was needed nor joining any Eastern or Western organization. (see Acts 10:43-48). Compare this to what Peter said in Acts 15:11: We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. (Acts 15:11)

Consider Eph 2:5 [God] made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.

Is there any hint of an extended process between dead & alive? Salvation is a change from death to life, with no intermediate zombie state. 2 Cor 5: Old things are passed away, behold all has become new. It is all or nothing here.

In addressing Tim on common salvation, prophet Paul remarks to Tim how the Christian's salvation is past. There is no future to transpire before Paul and Tim should call themselves saved.

[the Lord God] who has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, - 2 Tim 1:9

Again, prophet Paul wrote in Titus the truth that we presently regard ourselves as saved in the past.

he [God] saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

The future continued salvation state after belief is guaranteed by the past justification by the blood of the Lord Jesus.

Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! (Rom 5:9) Now how is anyone going to be half-way justified? You either are or you are not. The transition must be instante.

Instant Salvation Is Realized in Present Time

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes [present tense] him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:12,13)

There is a clear dichotomy: You either have or have not the Son of God with eternal life. The change must be instantaneous. Eternal life is a present possession for the believer, not just a future reward.

Salvation is clearly presented as a present reality:
Men are divided clearly into two groups, believers and non-believers, the saved & the perishing.


he who believes has everlasting life. (John 6:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (2 Cor 2:15)

It is clear the whosoever believes in Him has everlasting life and does not come into condemnation. This salvation must be instantaneous in that it is a new birth, a recreation and only depends upon trusting the SAvior (not the chance-giver). One either is a saint or an ain't. The moment a non-believer becomes a believer, he must be saved, for scripture guarantees salvation to the believer. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved. It is clear that the Philippian jailer was at once saved, for he believed.

Q Dost thou believe that the Lord Jesus died for thee?
A I believe it.

Q Dost thou thank him for his passion and death?
A I do thank him.

Q Dost thou believe that thou canst not be saved except by his death?
A I believe it.

Come then, while life remaineth in thee: in his death alone place thy whole trust; in naught else place any trust; to his death commit thyself wholly, with this alone cover thyself wholly; and if the Lord thy God will to judge thee, say, ‘Lord, between thy judgment and me I present the death of our Lord Jesus Christ; no otherwise can I contend with thee.’ And if he shall say that thou art a sinner, say thou: ‘Lord, I interpose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my sins and thee. ‘If he say that thou hast deserved condemnation, say: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my evil deserts and thee, and his merits I offer for those which I ought to have and have not.’ If he say that he is wroth with thee, say: ‘Lord, I oppose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thy wrath and me. ‘And when thou hast completed this, say again: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thee and me.’
Anselm of Canterbury (c. 1033-1109)

 

[Atwood]

those who . . . can easily see the falsity of OSAS.

Cassian just runs on, dogmatizing without scripture.

I give them eternal life & they shall never perish !

Thou shalt all His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.

QED

 

[Cassian]

he paid the penalty of sin did he not?

if he did not. none of us will get to heaven now will he?

so what pays for sin.

My faith in the work of Cross?

or all my works?

since when is the penalty of sin to be baptized? to take the eucharist? to give penance? to go to church? to stop sin?

I do not see those punishments for sin anyplace in scripture.

oh and PS. God says he KNEW who would be saved before the world began.. So he forgave sin before the world began, It just did not become a reality until the cross actually happened. And the act of faith actually became alive, But God (who is outside of time, and not limited by time) already knew it)

but I know. You have a pagan God.. who we have to humanize. so we must appease an angry God ourself by making our own propitiation to God (through the many sacraments). or we will be lost forever.

So, you don't really understand the difference between atone and forgive. Which is what I surmized by your statement. Because of that misunderstanding you do not have the correct understanding of how man is required to attain eternal life. Man, Adam, did not have sin in the equation and still it was a requirement for him to attain to eternal life. Christ did nothing on the cross, by His death, or resurrection that gave you eternal life. He reversed the fall, so that man and God could again engage in a relationship for which man was created. It made eternal life possible again.

Which is why OSAS is a false theory. It denies the whole reason why God created man and how that purpose would be carried out.

 

[Kerry]

it is Satanic to teach and preach OSAS because Satan loves it.