It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

The but of 6:9 does not start a new topic, but contrasts his opinion of them with his statement about apostates. He thus spake about apostates, but is convinced of better things about them, things that go with salvation (as opposed to the preceding which do not imply salvation). The But is a reference to the preceding apostates and making a contrast with them.

 

[homwardbound]

what is your point of this post homwardbound , to say you have no righteousness you think that will impress God this is what he is saying to us Romans 6:17-19

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Yep, I have no righteousness ever, not ever of my own. I have righteousness though, and it is not mine, it is Father's period.
I accepted his wedding invitation, as and while i was in the garbage, shown the feast that is a coming. And guess what. I am not returning to the garbage can are you? We are no longer of this world in it yes as what?
Ambassadors representing the love, Joy, peace, quietness and righteousness given us by his love to us thank you Jesus for this, my propitiation for all sin along with the whole world
So instead of working for this salvation, I am responding entered hid courts with thanksgiving and praise. It takes believing God, no doubt in what God has done for you, or one does not enter, Doubt having to do something keeps one from what is by God in God's Mercy to all a done operation from God in love and Mercy
Time to believe, receive and see.
And not get trying to do it by works of ones flesh efforts. The first chosen did not and will not enter, because of unbelief.
Do you really think God is pleased by our flesh works? Really us being the creation, what sense does that make, for if God is pleased by our works, and if God responds to this, would that not make you, me or anyone God of God?
God it he creator
We are the creation
So what can the clay say to the potter?
We are born creators in the flesh and this can not nor will, ever please God the Father of Christ, per scripture just read Romans Chapter 8 and see the war of Flesh dead Spirit and god's Spirit of life in the resurrected Christ not the dead one
Praying you might see truth over error of the flesh that we all are first born in, and need this new life here and now in Spirit and truth John 4:23-24, pretty clear on this fight of ones self flesh and blood and the Spirit of truth unto Father by Chirst's finished work for us to appreciate and not use for to get away with sin.

 

[homwardbound]

Being co-crucified with Christ involves a manifest death of the old man, the old man who "served sin." That is why in Romans it speaks of "obedience to the truth" as "setting one free from sin." One cannot serve sin and righteousness at the same time and therefore there must be a change.

Jesus did not substitute His righteousness for ours as you claim. Jesus exhibited His righteousness on our behalf that we would follow Him as an example. He "purchased us" that we may shift from the service of one master to another.

Believing and trusting can NEVER be disconnected from doing and obeying. They are one and the same thing.

I need to ask You Skinski. what have you accomplished does this accomplishment make you better than another?
And who gets the credit for waht you thinki you have accomplished?

 

[homwardbound]

So if you truly believe that then is it possible to willfully disobey God and still remain justified? Or do you believe that the rebellion stops once and for all at salvation and therefore a saved person never willfully disobeys God again?

God carries on the good work God starts in the believer, sealos them, kills them in there flesh so they walk by Faith, just as Christ walked only by Faith
Or tell me do you not beleive God? I mean entirely in all god has said, God will do right? I think it does take a willingness to know to be free
Yet I have seen the instant change as well from death to life. No matter though, God just love you too

 

[homwardbound]

they hear him he knows them they follow him and he gives them eternal life. Why do you want to change the order of things , that's the way it is
but you have proven yourself not to be his sheep by trying to change God's word

Accusations, beatings, Amen beat me hurt me make me Christian, Love you new birth, are you new to birth, just a baby, maybe see Hebrews 5:11 -6:9. your choice it seems to me you want to be mature, and can't see the forest through the tress of doubt. for doubt is what began this whole mess and they ate right or wrong?

 

[homwardbound]

they hear him he knows them they follow him and he gives them eternal life. Why do you want to change the order of things , that's the way it is
but you have proven yourself not to be his sheep by trying to change God's word

Atwood, sorry Brother I just had to pick this one up for you

 

[homwardbound]

You need not worry about me my friend I know whom I hear and serve and he knows me and I follow him and he gives me eternal life and I shall not perish.

Cool, so you have been confirmed then , Halleluijah
[h=3]Romans 8:16[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Cool

 

[BenFTW]

A disciple will not betray his master so you don't know what it is to be a disciple.Jesus said follow me disciples follow (emulate) that is a lifestyle when you stop following you are no longer a disciple. Judas stopped being a disciple when he stopped following Christ.

Emulation is not what saves us. We are to be Christ-like, but our likeness is not where our salvation lies. It lies in Christ and His finished work. If our salvation was dependent upon our likeness to Christ, we would still be under Law, which means to say, that we would all fall short of the glory of God. Which then leads us to why there was a New Testament in the first place, or new covenant, and that reason is because we are not like Christ, who is perfect. We are in need of saving, and that savior is Jesus. We are the righteousness of God, in Christ. Think of it like this. Adam's sin was imputed to us, our sin was imputed to Christ (on the cross) and Christ's righteousness was imputed to us. We are not righteous in ourselves, but in Christ.

Discipleship entails work, but works do not save us. Christ does. We do not work to get to heaven, this is not Buddhism, where one works to Nirvana, for moral perfection. Our perfection is in Christ, as He imputed it to us, that is, our standing with God (being justified, sanctified, and righteous in His sight).

 

[Atwood]

Atwood, sorry Brother I just had to pick this one up for you

Originally Posted by newbirth

they hear him he knows them they follow him and he gives them eternal life. Why do you want to change the order of things , that's the way it is
but you have proven yourself not to be his sheep by trying to change God's word

Thanks homeward:

I change not the word, NewB. You change it if you insert causal or conditional connections where there are none. The sheep have certain characteristics and the Lord Jesus gives them eternal life & the shall never perish. The hear & follow is not said to be a condition of the eternal life.

The eternal life is GIVEN. It is a gift. Not earned. You cannot earn a gift.

For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord . - Romans

Why continue trying to argue yourself out of eternal life? You have to trust the Savior to get it. What do you have to gain from fighting the free gift?

I give them eternal life and they shall never perish.

 

[homwardbound]

I'm sure this conversation has moved far from the OP by this point, but I am a former Christian. I used to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and now I don't. A lot of people doubt that -- some reasonably because my personal thoughts and beliefs from a long time ago can't be sufficiently proven, and some unreasonably by committing the "no true Scotsman" fallacy by arguing that I must not have been a "true Christian".

When I was a Christian, I believed that I couldn't possibly lose my belief. But losing it was the proof, on top of the doubts I already had, that the bible was not completely true. And why shouldn't it be possible? If you can change your belief from disbelieving God to believing in God, why would it be impossible to do the opposite?

In your own words you just proved you never came to the whole faith, you said

I believed that I couldn't possibly lose my belief. But losing it was the proof, on top of the doubts I already had,

Your words you had doubt and never came to know what Whole Faith is, you walked away , cause ytou did not get waht you think or thought you should true for false?
Hebrews 5:11- 6:9 speaks well of this conditiuon in many who claim to believe and one day leave, never coming to the fullness of God's love, because never made it to fertile ground to grow their got choked out, by what. Who knows
Yet as what i see you posted here had doubts to begin with, so you never believed than not in the entirety to made whole
I went through this as well, until, I got shown God's truth by God and not servant mankind
No matter what star crash you are a Sister to me and love still by God and me, as well as all the other believers that know God's love and Mercy, just accept you, and ask you to look deep inside self, and see truth and ask yourself can oyu kill another at will, them defenseless? If not the love of God is in you, whether you like it or not.

So are you sure you balked against Chirst or the religion preaching a Christ that is not Christ?
For being in the religion you were brought up in was not love was it, yet preached Christ and you got this thought
And heard if this is Christ here where I am at right now then I want nothing to do with him? and you have been attache dto that ever since, when it was the people not God
been there myself and chose to believe God and not people
praying your eyes and ears open.
If i speak truth you know if not and is truth you reject, and maybe righteously so. But all in all it was not God that did this to you? It was evil flesh selfishness, alone masquerading as God
Any way love you anyway, you decide what is error and what is truth
Love you, as God truthfully does

 

[Atwood]

Vs 4 - 8 are talking about people who have turned away. Verse 9 starts with the all important BUT and goes on to say Paul's heard no such things about this group he is addressing. Two different situations for 2 different groups.

Again, assumption attacks. I trust God completely with my eternal security. Question is, can we humans be likewise trusted with it? My nephew is a case of a very real NO.

Turn that around - your need to convince others that God keeps us prisoner sounds like YOU don't trust Him and must create something to assure yourself that you can't screw it up. Ah but you can, thus your insecurity.

The But refers to the apostates and contrasts them with the group that is characterized by salvation -- absolutely clear.

Your nephew proves nothing.
You say, "I trust God completely with my eternal security."

How can that be if you think you might end up on the Lake of Fire?
What kind of security is that? Is that security eternal? Actually you are insecure if you cannot trust the Lord with your destiny.

 

[BenFTW]

The But refers to the apostates and contrasts them with the group that is characterized by salvation -- absolutely clear.

Your nephew proves nothing.
You say, "I trust God completely with my eternal security."

How can that be if you think you might end up on the Lake of Fire?
What kind of security is that? Is that security eternal? Actually you are insecure if you cannot trust the Lord with your destiny.

[h=3]1 John 4:17-18[/h]King James Version (KJV)

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.



To think, we may have BOLDNESS in the day of judgement. That is assurance.

 

[Atwood]

Yes, one means, 'to have faith', translated, 'believe', and the other means 'persuasion or assurance', translated as, 'faith'.
So you do notice that they are not the same. They may hold similar meaning, but they are not the same word or thing.

The root is the same pistis = faith; pisteuo = believe or have faith.
The one who believes has faith.
The one who has faith believes.

Did you not look at the interchange in Romans which I posted at you?

I also posted BDAG on both words.

When will you have faith?
When will you believe in the Lord Jesus as your only & sufficient Savior.

Try the old call of faith now:

For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[homwardbound]

The But refers to the apostates and contrasts them with the group that is characterized by salvation -- absolutely clear.

Your nephew proves nothing.
You say, "I trust God completely with my eternal security."

How can that be if you think you might end up on the Lake of Fire?
What kind of security is that? Is that security eternal? Actually you are insecure if you cannot trust the Lord with your destiny.

And the Devil caused doubt in Eve and she did not retort and say hey, wait a minute I beleive God and I surely am not going to die today
Rather she was enticed for knowledge was she not. Has anything changed

And this is not to accuse anyone, yet all know who each are, between God and them, so praying anyone that is a liar repents and changes their mind from unbelief to belief, the only thing Christ never died for is unbelief that all are first born with and need new life in Spirit and truth, and this is done by the resurrected Christ by Father giving anyone this gift that believes God in thanksgiving and praise with a humble heart =, knowing what they deserve, DEATH, Thanks Adam. More important Thanks Christ and ?Father for raising Son back to life for us to be made a new in Spirit and truth, where today is the only way you Father can be served
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Atwood]

The Lord Is Not a Monster

Some seem to think that after
He died on the cross for a sinner,
sought the sinner who was hostile to Him,
transformed that sinner into a child of God, and
promised Him eternal life,
then the Lord would turn on His own child, cast Him out of His family, un-born-again him, rip him out of His own body, and roast that child in the Lake of Fire forever and ever. But the Word of God says no such thing; it guarantees to the child of God eternal life and never perishing.

The Word also (Heb 12) guarantees chastening to the wayward child of God. He may even be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved.

But the promised end is eternal life, by grace, to everyone who has believed.

What a tragedy it is to the fearful and unbelieving who insist on non-trusting the Lord Jesus with their destiny. There it is, eternal life, freely available for calling out in Faith and trusting the Savior. While you object and harden your heart vs the free gift of eternal life, you seal your doom. For your only hope is to trust the Crucified Savior Who loves you and offers you eternal life for depending on Him.

God so loved the world, that He gave His one & only Son,
that whosever believes in Him, should NOT PERISH, but
HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.

and hope does not put to shame; because the love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us. 6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. 8 But God commends his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then,
being

now justified by his blood, we shall be saved

from the wrath of God through him.
10 For if, while we were enemies,
we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled,
we shall be saved by his life;
< Rom 5

It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Even as it is written,

For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities,
nor things present, nor things to come,
nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now anything & everything a man does he does in the present or in the time to come.
There is no other time available. The child of God is secure in the present and in the future. But you have to become a "we" to get this guarantee. You need to stop denying the power of Christ's salvation, stop denying that He is a Savior who saved to the uttermost. Give over your unbelief and cling to Him in desperate faith.

 

[Atwood]

1 John 4:17-18

King James Version (KJV)

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

To think, we may have BOLDNESS in the day of judgement. That is assurance.

Amen. How could we ever have boldness if not clothed with the righteousness of Christ?
Are you familiar with the Instruction to the Dying attributed to St Anselm?

Q Dost thou believe that the Lord Jesus died for thee?
A I believe it.

Q Dost thou thank him for his passion and death?
A I do thank him.

Q Dost thou believe that thou canst not be saved except by his death?
A I believe it.

Come then, while life remaineth in thee: in his death alone place thy whole trust; in naught else place any trust; to his death commit thyself wholly, with this alone cover thyself wholly;

and if the Lord thy God will to judge thee,
say, ‘Lord, between thy judgment and me I present the death of our Lord Jesus Christ; no otherwise can I contend with thee.’

And if he shall say that thou art a sinner,
say thou: ‘Lord, I interpose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my sins and thee.

‘If he say that thou hast deserved condemnation,
say: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between my evil deserts and thee, and his merits I offer for those which I ought to have and have not.’

If he say that he is wroth with thee,
say: ‘Lord, I oppose the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thy wrath and me. ‘

And when thou hast completed this,
say again: ‘Lord, I set the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between thee and me.’

 

[Kerry]

And the Devil caused doubt in Eve and she did not retort and say hey, wait a minute I beleive God and I surely am not going to die today
Rather she was enticed for knowledge was she not. Has anything changed

And this is not to accuse anyone, yet all know who each are, between God and them, so praying anyone that is a liar repents and changes their mind from unbelief to belief, the only thing Christ never died for is unbelief that all are first born with and need new life in Spirit and truth, and this is done by the resurrected Christ by Father giving anyone this gift that believes God in thanksgiving and praise with a humble heart =, knowing what they deserve, DEATH, Thanks Adam. More important Thanks Christ and ?Father for raising Son back to life for us to be made a new in Spirit and truth, where today is the only way you Father can be served
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

God did not charge Eve with sin, simply because God never told Eve not to eat of the tree. He told Adam and Adam told Eve. When Eve ate of the fruit,nothing happened. The sin was in Adam and not in Eve. That's why God promised the redeemer through the seed of Eve.

There is no evidence that Adam ever repented. Not until Seth's child was born doe's the bible say that men began to call on the name of the Lord. If Adam was not eternally secured. Then why would we think ours is? Paul continually say's "those that endure to the end". Then He puts the stamp on it that I might attain to the Resurrection. Here is an apostle of God saying that he hopes to attain. The man that God chose to lay the foundation of the church.

In essence this eternal security lie of a doctrine is telling folks it's okay to sin. Because they don't know how to deal with it. They are in the flesh and have moved their faith from the cross to tradition and find themselves failing God and came up with this idea of eternal security. when all that is needed is to return your faith to the cross.

 

[Atwood]

God did not charge Eve with sin, simply because God never told Eve not to eat of the tree. He told Adam and Adam told Eve. When Eve ate of the fruit,nothing happened. The sin was in Adam and not in Eve. That's why God promised the redeemer through the seed of Eve.

There is no evidence that Adam ever repented. Not until Seth's child was born doe's the bible say that men began to call on the name of the Lord. If Adam was not eternally secured. Then why would we think ours is? Paul continually say's "those that endure to the end". Then He puts the stamp on it that I might attain to the Resurrection. Here is an apostle of God saying that he hopes to attain. The man that God chose to lay the foundation of the church.

In essence this eternal security lie of a doctrine is telling folks it's okay to sin. Because they don't know how to deal with it. They are in the flesh and have moved their faith from the cross to tradition and find themselves failing God and came up with this idea of eternal security. when all that is needed is to return your faith to the cross.

Kerry, Do you doubt that Abel was saved? Hebrews lists him in its hall of fame as having acted in faith. Speculation on Adam and eternal security is futile, for lack of evidence. I don't know any passage that says Adam was ever saved. Before he fell he was not saved, for he had never been lost. He was created good. Then Adam sinned. If you think that the killing of animals with blood shedding & clothing Adam in those skins is a picture of Christ's death & the believer then being clothed with Christ in His righteousness, then you postulate that Adam was saved. But there is nothing after that about Adam being lost.

So leave this hangup and focus on what the Word of God offers you by way of salvation.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved. You will not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eternal security implies that all believers endure to the end. No, Paul had not yet experienced the final transformation of the resurrection to a glorified body, but that is irrelevant to eternal security.

No, eternal security does not tell persons it is OK to sin. But why are you concerned about it? Are you not a great sinner, sinning every day of your life, and in great sin at the moment for failing to trust the Savior Who offers you eternal life?

It is not a matter of persons "coming up with" some doctrine. Read all the verses I have plastered on this board on the subject. Have you not seen them?

Eternal life . . . not perish.

Can't you finally get it that if you try to make it by works or by anything besides a desperate dependence on the crucified, you condemn yourself. The result is your very objection, sin; you remain stuck in your trespasses and sin for lack of trusting the only one who can save you. Let go of all your objections:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

 

[BenFTW]

God did not charge Eve with sin, simply because God never told Eve not to eat of the tree. He told Adam and Adam told Eve. When Eve ate of the fruit,nothing happened. The sin was in Adam and not in Eve. That's why God promised the redeemer through the seed of Eve.

There is no evidence that Adam ever repented. Not until Seth's child was born doe's the bible say that men began to call on the name of the Lord. If Adam was not eternally secured. Then why would we think ours is? Paul continually say's "those that endure to the end". Then He puts the stamp on it that I might attain to the Resurrection. Here is an apostle of God saying that he hopes to attain. The man that God chose to lay the foundation of the church.

In essence this eternal security lie of a doctrine is telling folks it's okay to sin. Because they don't know how to deal with it. They are in the flesh and have moved their faith from the cross to tradition and find themselves failing God and came up with this idea of eternal security. when all that is needed is to return your faith to the cross.

Jesus is our High Priest!

The eternal security doctrine has its foundation at the cross, and more importantly, in Jesus.

[h=3]Hebrews 7:18-26[/h]King James Version (KJV)

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

I also like the way NIV translates these verses, in particularly verse 25


[h=3]Hebrews 7:25[/h]New International Version (NIV)

25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.



He lives forever to intercede on our behalf! That is why He is also called our Advocate! He is our High Priest!

PS: The line of logic that says eternal security promotes sin is false and fallacious. The Word says, "Sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law, but grace." It is grace that makes it so sin is not dominating you. Eternal security is in grace.

 

[Kerry]

Then what does this mean?

1 Timothy 1

19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.