Jacob The Heel Catcher - Spiritual Adultery

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,084
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#21
I didnt get all of it but yes the cross is important because Jesus gave his life for us. He wasnt just a good man that everyone ought to follow, his death on the cross and blood paid for our sins. Jesus says to is take up our cross and follow Him. Its not always going to be easy and we will suffer, but thats how we produce the fruit of long-suffering. The cross is where Jesus showdown with satan was completed, satan tried to kill him in the most horrible way imaginable but death is not the end.

As for Jacob being heel catcher, am reminded of Genesis 3:15
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,493
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#27
On what evidence do you make the claim that most Christians have left their first love? Do you know most Christians personally and intimately, that you have firsthand insight to make such an assertion?

What exactly does "leaving the cross" look like? You seem very confident in your assertions, yet you provide nothing of value for your reader; just condemnation.

Where in Scripture is "forsaking the cross" connected with being "lukewarm"?
Not directly but surely indirectly .

Leaving our first love is simply refusing to take God at his word and believing as a anchor to the soul.. Our first love is that he works in those who do believe.(called faith ) Those in Revelation 2 lost their first love "hearing and believing God" giving their alliance to Nicole the pastor of that sect, a warning to the antichrists..

Leaving the cross is like those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come. And they were not given faith to tie the work all together.

Better things accompany salvation the redemption of ones soul.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,970
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#28
Hmmm... last time I checked, this was the Bible Discussion forum, not the Christian Music forum.

Were you wanting to discuss something related to Scripture?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,970
5,415
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#29
Leaving our first love is simply refusing to take God at his word and believing as a anchor to the soul. Our first love is that he works in those who do believe.(called faith )
Where is that in Scripture?

Those in Revelation 2 lost their first love "hearing and believing God" giving their alliance to Nicole the pastor of that sect, a warning to the antichrists.
Scripture doesn't state that... at all. You're adding to Scripture again.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,069
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#31
Hmmm... last time I checked, this was the Bible Discussion forum, not the Christian Music forum.

Were you wanting to discuss something related to Scripture?
Well Dino, first, Message tried to beat you with the word of God. When that didn't work, he thought he might blast you into submission with music. :eek:o_O:)
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#32
There are many judaizers (who are under Satan control through bondage and sin) that follow me to preach against the Cross of Christ where the victory was won. They are the enemies of the Cross - (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the Cross of Christ) Phil. 3:18
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,493
1,002
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#33
I didnt get all of it but yes the cross is important because Jesus gave his life for us. He wasnt just a good man that everyone ought to follow, his death on the cross and blood paid for our sins. Jesus says to is take up our cross and follow Him. Its not always going to be easy and we will suffer, but thats how we produce the fruit of long-suffering. The cross is where Jesus showdown with satan was completed, satan tried to kill him in the most horrible way imaginable but death is not the end.

As for Jacob being heel catcher, am reminded of Genesis 3:15
God named the second born of twins Jacob for a specific reason, in order to represent the second Adam, Jesus. he performed that with Cain and Abel in Genesis 4. Showing the second birth is the blessing.

Jacob a word that means heel catcher or deceiver as one of twins. .Jacob who bought the first born birth rite of the flesh of Esau. Esua as one who had no desire to worship God not seen, seeing no value in spiritual matters.

God then comes as a theophany wrestles with Jacob as when men of flesh and blood wrestle. I would think as a way of identifying his blessings. He named his bride Israel and later in Acts Christian a word that means residents of the city of Christ. The city prepared as His eternal bride. (Revelation21)


Genesis 32:27-29 King James Version (KJV)And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

In regard to …."Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name?" Emanuel blessed him there to show if we do hear Him we have been blessed. .Bruised the heel by the lie of the evil one the eternal one crushed his head.

In that way I would offer all Christians as a kingdom of priest holding out the gospel of peace the body that makes op the bride of Christ. They have the power with God and with men, in these earthen bodies of death but the power is not of us.

2 Corinthians 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Adding to that. But Him who works in us to both will and do the good pleasure of His will. And have prevailed because Christ finished all the works required to appease the waiting father. Giving meaning to the name change as a living hope looking ahead to the glorious day..

Beautiful parable that reveals the gospel found in Genesis 3.

Genesis 3:14-16And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Christians...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
11,493
1,002
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#34
Where is that in Scripture?
Hebrews 11 King James Version (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Leaving our first love is simply in unbelief (no faith) refusing to take God at his word and believing as a anchor to the soul.

The faith of God as a work of God comes by hearing God. When God by faith desired substance to appear, that had no eye to appear or ear to hear the commandment. God worked and said Let there be and there was.

Scripture doesn't state that... at all. You're adding to Scripture again.
Its what I believe it is informing us. It shows the Nicolaitans a Christian sect had found out some of their members who say they are sent by God as apostles (false) named after their leader Nicolas has left the first love the living abiding word of God and followed the private interpretation as a oral tradition of the Nicolaitans as a warning to all churches that hear what the Spirit is saying. it revels the nature of the antichrists who say we do need a man seen to teach us.

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.Revelation2:2-7

If the first love is not the love of God that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure .What do you think it is and how would it apply to the Nicolaitans since you say... Scripture doesn't state that... at all.?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,970
5,415
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#35
There are many judaizers (who are under Satan control through bondage and sin) that follow me to preach against the Cross of Christ where the victory was won. They are the enemies of the Cross - (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the Cross of Christ) Phil. 3:18
You seem to be imagining things. There are Judaizers on this forum, but they don’t bother with your threads.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,970
5,415
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#36
Hebrews 11 King James Version (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Leaving our first love is simply in unbelief (no faith) refusing to take God at his word and believing as a anchor to the soul.
The Hebrews verse is Scripture. The “leaving our first love” part isn’t.

Its what I believe it is informing us. It shows the Nicolaitans a Christian sect had found out some of their members who say they are sent by God as apostles (false) named after their leader Nicolas has left the first love the living abiding word of God and followed the private interpretation as a oral tradition of the Nicolaitans as a warning to all churches that hear what the Spirit is saying. it revels the nature of the antichrists who say we do need a man seen to teach us.
That’s your private interpretation.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#37
Bread Crumbs “Rejecting the Cross” 3-11-19

There are many reasons why a believer might reject the message of the Cross. All of them are wrong! The result of transferring faith in the person of Christ and the Work of Christ to anything else is a devastating spiritual choice. Three influences that help shape the rejection of this message are (1) powers of darkness, (2) personal agenda, and (3) previous teaching. Any influence that degrades Christ or His work on the Cross does not come from the Holy Spirit. Anyone attempting to persuade another not to place their faith exclusively in the Cross is being led by demonic powers. The cross brings us to a truly crucified life. Since we are creatures of comfort wanting our own will and way we often reject the cross life for our own designs. We have personal agendas and the cross life demands the elimination of them. And all of us have had teachings that are contrary to exclusively placing our faith in the Cross. Its hard to admit when we have been wrong! What will people think when we join that “cross preaching bunch?” It would be far better to repent than to reject the Cross of Christ for sanctification. I choose to believe in the power of what Jesus did for me on Calvary.


Matthew 16:23 - But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Pastor Loren Larson
Loren Larson Ministries
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
10,970
5,415
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#38
Any influence that degrades Christ or His work on the Cross does not come from the Holy Spirit. Anyone attempting to persuade another not to place their faith exclusively in the Cross is being led by demonic powers.
These two statements are contradictory.[/SIZE]

Either our faith is in Jesus Christ and His finished work, or it's in a metaphor that has no power to do anything.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#39
1 Corinthians 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: (5) That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

If the Believers Faith is placed exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, the Believer will enter into the Lord's rest that is carried out by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:2, Hebrews 4:1). This is the only way that the Holy Spirit will deliver the Believer unto the death, burial, and resurrection in Christ so that the life of Christ is manifested through the Believer by the power of the Holy Spirit both to will and to do of his good pleasure (Romans 6:3-5, Romans 8:2, 2 Cor. 4:11, Phil. 2:13).

IT IS JESUS CHRIST LIFE THAT BRINGS VICTORY...NOT OURS. JESUS SAID, "YOU CAN DO NOTHING WITHOUT ME (John 15:5)! EVERYTHING THAT MAN DOES DIES. EVERYTHING THAT JESUS DOES IS BLESSED, LIVES AND HAS LIFE!

If the Believer does not understand this, all scriptures become enticing words to the flesh, that will be attempted by the flesh to perform (Romans 8:2-3, 1 Cor. 2:4). The Believer now becomes a transgressor (Gal. 2:18). Under Grace, the Holy Spirit carries out the will of God in the Believer (Romans 8:2). Under the Law, the flesh (your own ability) carry's out the Law of God. Under Grace, the new covenant, if Christ is a Law keeper, than I am a Law keeper because I am in Him (Romans 6:3-5, Gal. 2:20-21).

“18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed (revert back to the Law), I make myself a transgressor. (To revert to any type of Law is a departure from God’s Prescribed Order of Victory [the Cross], and is sin).” Galatians 2:18
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,055
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#40
On what evidence do you make the claim that most Christians have left their first love? Do you know most Christians personally and intimately, that you have firsthand insight to make such an assertion?

What exactly does "leaving the cross" look like? You seem very confident in your assertions, yet you provide nothing of value for your reader; just condemnation.

Where in Scripture is "forsaking the cross" connected with being "lukewarm"?
Amen.............