Jehovah’s Witnesses

Webers.Home · Mar 6, 2023

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If you are interested in the Watchtower Society's bible I highly recommend
rounding up an old version because their latest has been doctored a bit to
circumvent debate over Col 1:16-17 which, in the ©1969 text, reads like
this:

"Because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens
and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter
whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All
[other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before
all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to
exist."

The word "other" is in brackets throughout. This alert readers that "other" is
not in the Greek manuscript; viz: the Society's translators took the liberty to
pencil it in; which gives the impression that the Word of John 1:1-3 was
God's first creation; and thereafter, the Word created everything else.

Had the Society been consistent, they would've included "other" in their
version of John 1:3, which reads:

"All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even
one thing came into existence."

* Later versions keep the word "other" in Col 1:16-17 but omit the brackets.
_

Joelightening · Mar 6, 2023

I don't let JWs and solar panel salesmen into our home!

Pilgrimshope · Mar 6, 2023

Samuel94 said:

“I just can’t fathom how you can read the same book, but come to a different conclusion”

spend about three days observing the Bible discussion forum here and you’ll realize it’s pretty common for believers to have radically different ideas about what the Bible says

Nehemiah6 · Mar 6, 2023

Joelightening said:

Why would Joelightening need solar panels? He gets his energy directly from lightening, a la Ben Franklin. Correct me if I am wrong.

Joelightening · Mar 6, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Lol!

Webers.Home · Mar 6, 2023

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A mediator is defined as one who interposes between two parties at variance
to reconcile them, viz: an intercessor.

Here's a question that someone wrote in to the questions from readers
section of the April 01, 1976 issue of Watchtower magazine, asking:

"Is Jesus the mediator only for anointed Christians? (a.k.a. the 144,000)"

The answer given in the magazine is YES.

The magazine's answer is corroborated on page 1130 of the Society's
publication titled "Aid To Bible Understanding" where it says that the
144,000 are the only ones who have the mediator; a.k.a. Jesus Christ.
(1John 2:1)

Intercession for non anointed Witnesses is accomplished on the coattails of
the 144,000; viz: Jesus Christ is an indirect, second party mediator for the
rank and file via their affiliation with the Watchtower Society.

It's sort of like buying insurance from Allstate. The company doesn't sell
direct; its business is conducted through brokers. In essence, that's what the
Society presumes itself: Jesus Christ's mediation brokerage.

So then; when a JW either defects or is disfellowshipped, their pipeline to
the mediator is broken, and they right quick lose all contact with God; thus
placing themselves in grave danger of the calamities depicted in the book of
Revelation.

Bottom line: According to Watchtower Society theology; it is impossible for
non-anointed people to be on peaceful terms with God apart from affiliation
with the Society's anointed class, a.k.a. the faithful and wise steward.

In other words: Christ's mediation for rank and file JWs as per 1Tim 2:5 is
accomplished via a chain of benevolence that begins with Christ's association
with the faithful and wise steward; and from thence to the rest of humanity.
Removing the faithful and wise steward from the chain cuts humanity off
from Christ; thus leaving them with no way to reconcile with God.

NOTE: I've had JWs tell me that the Watchtower magazine isn't their
authority in matters of faith and practice. But the Jan 1, 1942 issue of the
magazine, on page 5, speaks for itself as a trustworthy source of
Watchtower Society theology by saying:

"Those who are convinced that The Watchtower is publishing the opinion or
expression of a man should not waste time in looking at it at all. Those who
believe that God uses the Watchtower as a means of communicating to his
people, or of calling attention to his prophecies, should study The
Watchtower."

In other words: the haulers of water and the hewers of wood-- John Que and
Jane Doe rank and file --are not only expected to know what's in the
Watchtower magazine, but they're also required to accept it as God's
providence.

* Not all JWs are familiar with their own religion. For example some years
ago I told one that their Jesus is still dead and his remains squirreled away
on Earth in a condition and a location known only to God. They accused me
of a bald faced lie.
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Cameron143 · Mar 6, 2023

I worked with a JW for awhile. They have a works based gospel in addition to their many textual errors. He eventually was saved. Ephesians 2:8-9 always weighed heavy upon him he confided.

gb9 · Mar 6, 2023

Joelightening said:

same for me!!

( though i did have some solar panel salespeople calling me for a while. lol)

jb · Mar 7, 2023

Samuel94 said:

Their error (on saying that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are created) is the "error of Arius."

The Devil has simply rehashed a very old destructive heresy (that of Arius of Alexandra) from 3rd/4th century and presented it to the world through the Jehovah Witnesses.

The JW's and NOT Christian, and are NOT part of the Body of Christ!

Samuel94 · Mar 7, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Yes, of course in other matters. But Jesus is Lord! We can agree on that. Or can we? 😂 what have I got myself into here 😂

SACREDWARRIOR · Mar 7, 2023

Hello Gang,
FIRST AND FOREMOST They are a CULT no way Christian or Saved...

They use a a butchered and poorly translated version of the KJV bible...for instance...in John 1:1 in standard translations it says "...THE WORD WAS GOD..." IN THE JW TEXT IT SAYS.... " THE WORD WAS (A) GOD..."

THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!
Clarence

Angela53510 · Mar 7, 2023

The JWs are a sad example of being so close to the truth, yet totally missing it. I had an aunt & uncle who were JWs since the 1950s. All they ever accomplished was alienating our whole family, and none of their children are following in their footsteps!

I've had many a JW on my door step. I wrote out how the cases in Greek affect the meaning of John 1:1. It clearly shows the Arian mistake of the JWs. I always bring out my lexicons, study Bibles, etc. They started out with an older woman and a training partner visiting. Next thing, I get 2 senior men elders in my door step. I invited them to come in for a Bible study. They declined! I told them I wanted to discuss the actual Greek with them. They declined. I finally gave them copies before they left of my John 1:1 explanation of how Jesus was God, they said it was great I had studied Greek & the Bible, left, and no one has ever returned in years!

Educate yourself as to the truth of the real Bible, and they won't come back & bother you!

Komentaja · Mar 7, 2023

Samuel94 said:

A couple times a month, JW’s come to visit the industrial estate where I work. They’re always welcoming and we always have a healthy debate, but everytime I ask the question why they don’t believe Jesus is God they stop talking and direct me to their website.
I can’t understand how someone who reads the same scriptures that we do, does not believe that Jesus is Lord? Or are they reading different scripture? As they’re trying to convert me, I offer counterpoints to make them think about what they believe. I’m not bashing JW’s. I just can’t fathom how you can read the same book, but come to a different conclusion of who/what God is. Thoughts?

They do confess Jesus as Lord.

They just reject the trinity.

Cameron143 · Mar 7, 2023

Komentaja said:

They reject the deity of Jesus.

Nehemiah6 · Mar 7, 2023

Komentaja said:

Don't be fooled. That is simply "another Jesus". But if the Lord is not God, then He is not the Lord of Scripture.

Niki7 · Mar 7, 2023

Komentaja said:

Not so. If you really believe that, would you provide the source indicating that to be true?

According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, “Jesus is not God,” and thus should not be worshiped by Christians. The Watchtower, a magazine published twice a month by Jehovah’s Witnesses, has repeatedly made such claims through the years. In their September 15, 2005 issue, for example, they stated quite simply that the Scriptures “show that Jesus is not God Almighty.” The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ official Web site (jw.org), which republishes many items from The Watchtower, briefly answers the question “Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe in Jesus?,” concluding, “we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God” (2015). source

For anyone believing there are only a few things different in the way JW's approach the Bible, you might want to click on the link I provided and read how they view Jesus.

There are reasons why they are referred to as a cult and one of the main ones, is because they refute actual Christian beliefs. You cannot be a Christian if you 'cancel' Jesus

Webers.Home · Mar 7, 2023

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FAQ: Why does the Watchtower Society translate the Word in John 1:1 as a
god in lower case instead of God in upper case?

REPLY: The Watchtower Society's translation is based upon an imaginary
grammatical technicality.

The common Greek word for "god" is theós. When it's modified by the little
Greek article "ho" the Society translates theós in upper case, viz: in the
Society's theological thinking; ho theós pertains to the one true God, while
theós by itself is somewhat flexible, for example John 1:18 and John 20:17
where the Society translates theós in upper case though it be not modified by
ho.

However, according to Dr. Archibald T. Robertson's "Grammar Of The Greek
New Testament", page 767: in regards to nouns in the predicate; the article
is not essential to speech. In other words: when theόs is in the predicate, ho
can be either used, or not used, without making any real difference.

So then; a translator's decision whether to capitalize either of the two theόs
in John 1:1 or not to capitalize them, is entirely arbitrary rather than
dictated by a strict rule of Greek grammar.

Of course the Society prefers that the Word be a lower case god because
that spelling is agreeable with their version of his status; whereas regular
Christians prefer the upper case because that spelling is agreeable with their
version of the Word's status; whereas in reality, either spelling is acceptable.

For that reason I strongly discourage discussing John 1:1 with JWs because
the grammatical ground they stand on is just as solid as ours.

* The very fact that the Society recognizes the Word as a divine being at all
is problematic because there is no middle classifications of gods in the Bible
between the true and the false; just as there is no middle between fools and
wise, or good and evil, or righteous and unrighteous.
_

oyster67 · Mar 7, 2023

Samuel94 said:

It is very difficult to walk away from everyone and everything that you have ever loved and known.

Luke 14:26
“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”

Luke 14:33
“So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.”

Webers.Home · Mar 7, 2023

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Samuel94 said:

Interpretation isn't a problem unique to JWs. For example: in my mind's eye,
Phil 2:6-11 says that when the Word of John 1:1-3 came into the world as
the flesh of John 1:14, he came as a Jewish man rather than a divine man.
Then later on, as a reward for his unfailing devotion to a very grave matter,
God promoted the Word's flesh to a rank of divinity so high that it shares
the Almighty's throne. In other words: the Word's flesh is no longer only a
Jewish man, now he's also a divine man.

Not that many Christians see Phil 2:6-11 the way I do, yet we're all batting
for the same team.
_

Pilgrimshope · Mar 7, 2023

Samuel94 said:

you would think anyone who ever read the Bible would know what it says and agree but

and yeah we all should know who the lord God almighty is and his name

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