Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

[Magenta]

the language here is enigmatic -- @Magenta my dear purple sister disagrees with my opinion here, and has good reason to -- as far as i have been self-taught ((which is not really being taught so take this with salt)) about Greek, the grammar can either be read as a command "search!" or a statement of factual observation "you search.."
i take it as a command. in my opinion, Jesus is telling them, search! because you think there is life in these words! and these are about Me!
Magenta takes it as a statement of fact. you people search, thinking there is life in these -- and they're speaking about Me, THE Life!

either way, i think, John 5:39 tells us what the whole purpose and meaning of scripture is. it's testimony of the person & work of the Messiah. Magenta and i both reach this same conclusion no matter how different the little nuances of our understanding may be

I don't recall saying that...

*waves hello

 

[Magenta]

@posthuman ~ *I do agree with Jesus saying they do search the Scriptures,
as opposed to it being a command. PS: I do not care for the NLT translation

*There, now I've said it

 

[Guojing]

IMO there is only one "good news"

it's the very name of Him; "God is Salvation = Yah Shuah" -- that's what Noah heard; that's what Abraham heard, that's what we hear.

anything other than "God saves" is bad news.




you can say, we're not supposed to build arks. but i will say, that is about Jesus. if you're just thinking it's about building boats you're missing the point. yeah he built a boat, but the only reason God put that in His book is because it's a picture of the Messiah. that's the point. it's always been the point. the point is Jesus and the gospel is a person, even that very same Christ. someone misunderstanding or failing to understand the point doesn't change the point.

Why not just understand the Bible literally, instead of trying to read your own doctrine into it?

What did Genesis 15:5 literally says about the good news preached to Abraham?

What did Genesis 9:11 literally says about the good news preached to Noah?

Yes, we all know Christ is ultimately the basis for all these good news. That doesn't make them all the same good news.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

evangelists. pastors, and teachers to the churches for their edification.

Yes, God has that Purpose for HIS Body, but, it is Very Troubling in the traditional
"churches" that have Several Various symbolic interpretations of water baptism!
Seems to me that there is More Confusion, than it is "edification."

baptism "study" begins here...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, God has that Purpose for HIS Body, but, it is Very Troubling in the traditional
"churches" that have Several Various symbolic interpretations of water baptism!
Seems to me that there is More Confusion, than it is "edification."

baptism "study" begins here...

How about just study the word and what it means in the Greek? Remember, baptism is not an english word, so we should interpret it from its source meaning (Greek baptizo) not its English transliterariom

 

[throughfaith]

easily.

this is the King of the heavens and the earth
and this, this is what He did

not different kingdoms. not different kings. just more to the story.

Which Gospel did they receive in Galations 1 ?

 

[throughfaith]

easily.

this is the King of the heavens and the earth
and this, this is what He did

not different kingdoms. not different kings. just more to the story.

No one is saying that at all .

 

[RomanticRevolutionary]

How can it be two different Gospels between Jesus and his least Apostle Paul when Paul, though admitting to being but a little apostle himself brought forth the Gospel of his Lord Jesus Christ? Paul's letters are combined not two differing Gospels, but one and the same as the Gospel of Lord Jesus. Hence Paul and the other known direct witnesses from the Twelve Elders of the New Testament and the other Disciples of Lord Jesus make up what is called the New Testament. This collection of canonical books is verified that it is simply a continuation and fulfillment of the Old Testament books, being that they are written after the Word of God was made flesh in the womb of the blessed virgin, lived and did many good works and signs of the Father, was crucified for being the King of the Jews by the high authorities of the Jewish Race and the world empire power of Rome, took back up his life which he laid down resurrected by the Promise of God, ascended into Heaven, and shall come again at the right hand of God near the end of the world in great might and power with all the firstclass saints and holy angels to herald the day of the Revealing of the face of the Father, God. May God's will be done, his Kingdom come, and reign forever praising Lord Jesus.

 

[throughfaith]

That's exactly what Jesus said:

And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

He told them what the death , burial and resurrection meant. We get a full bible with all the information to join the dots so to speak . Prior to this conversation though they preached the Gospel which did not include the death and resurrection.

 

[throughfaith]

How can it be two different Gospels between Jesus and his least Apostle Paul when Paul, though admitting to being but a little apostle himself brought forth the Gospel of his Lord Jesus Christ? Paul's letters are combined not two differing Gospels, but one and the same as the Gospel of Lord Jesus. Hence Paul and the other known direct witnesses from the Twelve Elders of the New Testament and the other Disciples of Lord Jesus make up what is called the New Testament. This collection of canonical books is verified that it is simply a continuation and fulfillment of the Old Testament books, being that they are written after the Word of God was made flesh in the womb of the blessed virgin, lived and did many good works and signs of the Father, was crucified for being the King of the Jews by the high authorities of the Jewish Race and the world empire power of Rome, took back up his life which he laid down resurrected by the Promise of God, ascended into Heaven, and shall come again at the right hand of God near the end of the world in great might and power with all the firstclass saints and holy angels to herald the day of the Revealing of the face of the Father, God. May God's will be done, his Kingdom come, and reign forever praising Lord Jesus.

When they are preaching the Gospel prior to his death, obviously there not preaching the good news about him dying for our sins . Nor are they preaching the resurrection..Paul preached chirst crucified.

 

[posthuman]

Why not just understand the Bible literally, instead of trying to read your own doctrine into it?

What did Genesis 15:5 literally says about the good news preached to Abraham?

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.​

(Galatians 3:6-9 kjv)​

​

Paul teaches that we should understand the Bible both as literal events and as testimony of Christ.

And He said unto them, ​

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.​

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, ​

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.​

(Luke 24:44-47 kjv)​

Jesus also teaches that the scripture is literally true and literally testimony of Himself. of His death, of His burial and resurrection. of forgiveness of sin in His name, both to the Jew and to the Gentile

why don't you believe God, and those He sent?
it may be He has not yet opened your understanding, that you also might understand the scriptures.

 

[RomanticRevolutionary]

When they are preaching the Gospel prior to his death, obviously there not preaching the good news about him dying for our sins . Nor are they preaching the resurrection..Paul preached chirst crucified.

No, Paul is the least of the apostles because he was Pharisee and later only saw the resurrected Lord Jesus in a vision which made him blind. Paul is certified by those greater Disciples and Apostles, even Peter whom though he argued with him nevertheless certifies him in his letters. Even though the other writers and characters in the narratives did not fully understand it at the time they did nevertheless indeed preach and live in fact the Gospel even as the events of the books of the Gospels transpire in that they were fulfilling the good news about Lord Jesus in far deeper ways and thus being the perfect witnesses to record and certify those books of the Gospel and those other letters and writings which are the called popularly the New Testament.

 

[posthuman]

He told them what the death , burial and resurrection meant. We get a full bible with all the information to join the dots so to speak . Prior to this conversation though they preached the Gospel which did not include the death and resurrection.

​

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: ​

now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. ​

(1 Corinthians 13:12)​

​

when the rest of the dots are connected in our understanding, will it become yet another gospel, nullifying the previous one you believed, making void everything any Christian ever preached?

or will it be the same one, fully known?



300 years ago we used Newton's mechanics to describe the motion of an electron.
then after the passing of time and the increase of knowledge, we used Einstein's relativity to describe the same thing.
now with more knowledge, we use quantum mechanical equations describing the same motion of the same electron.

is it a different electron? does it move differently?
no.
all that's changed is that more has been revealed about it than was given to our ancestors to know.
and a thousand years ago, they didn't even know there were such things as electrons -- but the same electron moved the same way, wholly unaffected by our ignorance.

 

[Guojing]

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.​

(Galatians 3:6-9 kjv)​

​

Paul teaches that we should understand the Bible both as literal events and as testimony of Christ.

And He said unto them, ​

These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.​

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, ​

Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.​

(Luke 24:44-47 kjv)​

Jesus also teaches that the scripture is literally true and literally testimony of Himself. of His death, of His burial and resurrection. of forgiveness of sin in His name, both to the Jew and to the Gentile

why don't you believe God, and those He sent?
it may be He has not yet opened your understanding, that you also might understand the scriptures.

I believe the good news preached to Abraham was Genesis 15:5

"And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

That is very good news for Abraham and Sarah. They believed that, and God saw it as faith for righteousness.

 

[throughfaith]

No, Paul is the least of the apostles because he was Pharisee and later only saw the resurrected Lord Jesus in a vision which made him blind. Paul is certified by those greater Disciples and Apostles, even Peter whom though he argued with him nevertheless certifies him in his letters. Even though the other writers and characters in the narratives did not fully understand it at the time they did nevertheless indeed preach and live in fact the Gospel even as the events of the books of the Gospels transpire in that they were fulfilling the good news about Lord Jesus in far deeper ways and thus being the perfect witnesses to record and certify those books of the Gospel and those other letters and writings which are the called popularly the New Testament.

Paul writes nearly half of the new testament. How many did the others write ? Paul writes more than any other person in the whole bible.

 

[posthuman]

I believe the good news preached to Abraham was Genesis 15:5

"And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

That is very good news for Abraham and Sarah. They believed that, and God saw it as faith for righteousness.

Paul believes that this is about the heathen being justified by faith, and that by saying this to Abraham, the gospel was preached to him. Jesus knows this testifies of Him.

neither deny the literal event; they understand it.

 

[posthuman]

Paul writes nearly half of the new testament. How many did the others write ? Paul writes more than any other person in the whole bible.

Moses wrote at least 125,000 words of the Bible. ((he may have also written Job))
Paul wrote 32,000 words of the Bible.

the Spirit of God wrote all of it.


Ezra, Luke & Jeremiah each wrote more than Paul ((43k, 38k, 35k respectively))

 

[Guojing]

Paul believes that this is about the heathen being justified by faith, and that by saying this to Abraham, the gospel was preached to him. Jesus knows this testifies of Him.

neither deny the literal event; they understand it.

Yes, as I said, "gospel" simply means "good news".

So yes, a "gospel" was preached to Abraham.

I don't want to read into Genesis 15:5. I recall my pastor tried to do that, by claiming that the "stars" in heaven in Genesis 15:5 tells the same gospel as 1 Cor 15:1-4, with Virgo as virgin Mary, Leo as the Lion of Judah, Scorpio as Satan etc etc.

That to me is bit of an overkill. I stay silent when the Bible is silent.

 

[RomanticRevolutionary]

Paul writes nearly half of the new testament. How many did the others write ? Paul writes more than any other person in the whole bible.

Paul was indeed a prolific scribe and adventurer for the Lord Jesus. I like his style too, but in deeds and just life and raw witness Paul is the least of all the New Testament writers. John both by his writings and his character in those writing would be the greatest of the New Testament writers in the sense of canonicity since he alone of the writers witnessed the crucifixion for the entirety of the episode of it and also received and wrote the book of the Apocalypse.

 

[throughfaith]

​

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: ​

now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. ​

(1 Corinthians 13:12)​

​

when the rest of the dots are connected in our understanding, will it become yet another gospel, nullifying the previous one you believed, making void everything any Christian ever preached?

or will it be the same one, fully known?



300 years ago we used Newton's mechanics to describe the motion of an electron.
then after the passing of time and the increase of knowledge, we used Einstein's relativity to describe the same thing.
now with more knowledge, we use quantum mechanical equations describing the same motion of the same electron.

is it a different electron? does it move differently?
no.
all that's changed is that more has been revealed about it than was given to our ancestors to know.
and a thousand years ago, they didn't even know there were such things as electrons -- but the same electron moved the same way, wholly unaffected by our ignorance.

Paul defines what the Gospel is in a nut shell in 1cor 15 .1_4. By this I know from scripture its not this Gospel .

luke 9.6
6¶And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where.

What your saying is post hoc rationalization. Where your saying Its just ' added information ' to the story .
If you think of it as good news it makes sense why they were preaching their gospel prior to the Gospel of DBR .