Jesus and Paul -two different gospels?

[Evmur]

Acts 10:4
The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.

When Peter said....

34Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

You seem to be saying that you do not like it that Peter said this and that this theology offends your "not by works" ideas.
I think your "not by works" ideas are probably not what the scriptures actually teach. Many are using the "not by works" rhetoric to apply it to something that the scriptures do not mean.

1 Pet 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."

Peter was not mistaken. He knew the scriptures which also say...Ps 147:11 the LORD delights in those who fear him, who put their hope in his unfailing love.

The parable of the sower also gives us insight into the difference between those who have understanding and those who don't. It is always a condition of the heart based on choices made.

Those that earnestly seek after God will find him and this is not the "Works" Paul was talking about when he was talking about the works of the Law. We must not mix up seeking God in faith and call it works. It is just confusion.

No you must get this right

Cornelius' good works may well have come before God as a memorial, but those works did not save him nor were the they the cause of his salvation. What saved Cornelius and his household was the preaching of the gospel. If he had not sent for Peter and Peter had not come and preached he would not have been saved.

What about Paul? was he saved because of good deeds? He was on a rampage against the church of God, dragging men and women off to be beaten and imprisoned lining up with those who slew Stephen.

See this argument still rages in the church to this very day and people get very angry about it so it is no small matter.

Are we saved by good works? or by grace through faith [not our own] alone. It still rages, this will shock you, In every case those who preach the necessity of good works they always quote non Pauline gospel, always they revert to Peter, James or the gospel narratives or Hebrews.

Paul also preaches good works, oh yes, but in the matter of salvation he makes it crystal clear, salvation is a gift of pure grace alone.

The failure is [I believe] in failing to distinguish when reading the Jewish writers the difference between salvation and discipleship. God does expect works, He expects fruit but not before He has first accomplished in us the work of salvation which must be received as a free gift.

You see how important it is don't you because you have so many, many folks who truly believe they are buying their ticket to heaven by doing good deeds.

 

[Live4Him]

Whether they "should" or not is a matter of opinion, which you are free to have a contrary one.

But my point was that they, James and the elders, did have a problem with Paul preaching Galatians 5:2 so fervently among the gentiles, until there end up Jewish believers who followed that, instead of the gospel of the circumcision (Galatians 2:7-9).

Wait a minute...wait a minute...wait a minute...

In all honesty, I think that it just dawned on me what you actually believe, so please tell me if I'm correct or not.

When you read of "the gospel of the uncircumcision" and "the gospel of the circumcision", do you understand that to mean that there were two different gospels?

One in which people didn't need to be circumcised and one in which they did?

I'm asking this question in all sincerity in order that I might understand exactly what it is that you believe, so please answer it directly.

Thank you.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Through various discussions on the board here. It seems there is a view that there are two gospels.


Basically it says that Jesus taught a different gospel than that of Paul. Are there two gospels? One that Jesus taught then a different one that Paul taught?

nope there sure isn’t there is one gospel what you have noticed is the deception on the world meant to get you to question Gods word of salvation and offer another explaination like he did in genesis three it’s his only attack on believers get them to question the truth and offer an alternative

the truth about the gospel is this

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

Paul is a part of that mission like all the other apostles

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23, 28, 30-31‬ ‭


“But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭20:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

people build whole doctrines and wrote series of books based on Paul saying “ the gospel of grace “ but it’s taken out of context and distorted to fit thier message

Paul also calls the gospel

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16‬ ‭

same gospel preached to Jews first was sent to Gentiles

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul preached the same message he calls it the gospel in many descriptive terms it doesn’t mean it is a different message each time as some would create a doctrine about here’s some examples to consider

“And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:1, 3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭

“That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

which btw begins here

“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1:13‬ ‭

“In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭4:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what they will or won’t believe is the message Jesus sent out from Jerusalem. The same gospel he preached on earth to them

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16, 19‬ ‭


you are wise to question if there are two gospels there is infatically one Gospel that will never change anyone who accepts and believes will be saved

 

[Scribe]

No you must get this right

Cornelius' good works may well have come before God as a memorial, but those works did not save him nor were the they the cause of his salvation. What saved Cornelius and his household was the preaching of the gospel. If he had not sent for Peter and Peter had not come and preached he would not have been saved.

What about Paul? was he saved because of good deeds? He was on a rampage against the church of God, dragging men and women off to be beaten and imprisoned lining up with those who slew Stephen.

See this argument still rages in the church to this very day and people get very angry about it so it is no small matter.

Are we saved by good works? or by grace through faith [not our own] alone. It still rages, this will shock you, In every case those who preach the necessity of good works they always quote non Pauline gospel, always they revert to Peter, James or the gospel narratives or Hebrews.

Paul also preaches good works, oh yes, but in the matter of salvation he makes it crystal clear, salvation is a gift of pure grace alone.

The failure is [I believe] in failing to distinguish when reading the Jewish writers the difference between salvation and discipleship. God does expect works, He expects fruit but not before He has first accomplished in us the work of salvation which must be received as a free gift.

You see how important it is don't you because you have so many, many folks who truly believe they are buying their ticket to heaven by doing good deeds.

No one said they saved him. Not me, and not Peter. You said Peter thought that Cornelius was saved by works, but Peter never thought that. You are wrong for thinking that Peter thought Cornelius was saved by works and was fuzzy about it. Now you have turned that discussion into something different. I don't know anyone who thinks anyone is saved by their works. I don't know anyone who teaches that we are buying our ticket to heaven by doing good deeds.

I will abandon the conversation now as it seems that you have chosen to move the goal posts.

 

[Guojing]

You make a good point. In fact, we see the Apostles develop their belief system, such as what we find in Acts 15.

Acts 15:10-11 NIV - "Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Later, we see what it is that they all mutually concluded:

Acts 15:19-21 NIV - "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

No doubt, there was a development of the Law. Even later, Paul spoke about how women shouldn't speak in the Church. Wow . . . talk about legalism! What happened to, "There is neither male nor female . . ."

Have you realized one interesting development in the Acts 15 account?

Peter stated
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

A literal reading will tell you that Peter is actually saying that he wants the Jews (we), from then on, to be saved, as a Gentile (they).

James did his final announcement that

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

James is saying the Gentiles do not have to follow the Law of Moses.

Did he say anything about the Jews whether they needed to follow too? The clear answer is no.

Notice James changed what Peter intended and spoke clearly in vs 11? Here there is no statement about Jews.

If you cannot see the literal meaning in Acts 15, we have, in Acts 21:20 and 25, it clarified what was in James and the elders' minds in Acts 15

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

When you combine the literal understanding of Acts 15 and Acts 21 together, it is clear that James proclaimed something different from what Peter intended.

 

[Guojing]

Wait a minute...wait a minute...wait a minute...

In all honesty, I think that it just dawned on me what you actually believe, so please tell me if I'm correct or not.

When you read of "the gospel of the uncircumcision" and "the gospel of the circumcision", do you understand that to mean that there were two different gospels?

One in which people didn't need to be circumcised and one in which they did?

I'm asking this question in all sincerity in order that I might understand exactly what it is that you believe, so please answer it directly.

Thank you.

Yes, Acts 21:20-25 tells you that James and the elders also held that to be true. That was the conclusion James made at the Jerusalem Council event years back.

18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

James is saying to Paul, what he was also saying in James 2 to all Jewish believers, faith without works is dead. Works, in the context of Acts 21 for Jews are "walkest orderly, and keepest the law."

 

[Guojing]

I think he had submitted to Paul's rebuke and testified that the salvation received by the Gentiles was of identical nature with that of the Jews. The debacle took place in the 15th of Acts. This was quite a long time after he had himself preached to the Gentiles and seen the power of God ... and yet when those pharisees came down to Antioch preaching circumcision and obedience to Moses Peter withdrew from the Gentiles so he still was not fully right in his mind about the Gentiles.

This is exactly why Paul was raised up. I'm not blaming Peter, but it is there for all to see.

Actually, when you literally read how Acts 15 went down, as recorded by Luke. Peter actually stated this:

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

A literal reading will tell you that Peter is actually saying that he wants the Jews (we), from then on, to be saved, as a Gentile (they).

This is very significant because under the Law of Moses, Gentiles could be saved, but only as a Jew. Exodus 12:48 sums that up well.

And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

So when Peter announced that, it was of huge significance to all the Jews who heard him during the Council.

But alas, James intervened before it could take root, and he did his final announcement that

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

James, in my reading, deftly changed Peter's proclamation about how Jews and Gentiles are now to turn to God, into just the Gentiles.
And Acts 21 confirmed it, especially in v20

...Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law

And when Paul spoke about Peter in his famous rebuke in Galatians 2 even indicated that Peter was concerned about "certain came from James" in v12.

This is evidence that Peter's standing among the Jewish believers in Acts was not as strong as the one James had, as many thought it was. James, the brother of Jesus was apparently at least of equal standing with Peter.

 

[JaumeJ]

Paul declares, in his own letters there is only one Gospel, that of our Savior.

 

[Guojing]

Paul declares, in his own letters there is only one Gospel, that of our Savior.

Yes, if you understand what Galatians 2:7-9 meant, he was tasked to preached the gospel of the uncircumcision, to the gentiles.

So as far as Gentiles are concerned, which were the audience Paul was writing to in all his letters, yes there is only one Gospel for them. You are absolutely correct there.

 

[Evmur]

Actually, when you literally read how Acts 15 went down, as recorded by Luke. Peter actually stated this:

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

A literal reading will tell you that Peter is actually saying that he wants the Jews (we), from then on, to be saved, as a Gentile (they).

This is very significant because under the Law of Moses, Gentiles could be saved, but only as a Jew. Exodus 12:48 sums that up well.

And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

So when Peter announced that, it was of huge significance to all the Jews who heard him during the Council.

But alas, James intervened before it could take root, and he did his final announcement that

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

James, in my reading, deftly changed Peter's proclamation about how Jews and Gentiles are now to turn to God, into just the Gentiles.
And Acts 21 confirmed it, especially in v20

...Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law

And when Paul spoke about Peter in his famous rebuke in Galatians 2 even indicated that Peter was concerned about "certain came from James" in v12.

This is evidence that Peter's standing among the Jewish believers in Acts was not as strong as the one James had, as many thought it was. James, the brother of Jesus was apparently at least of equal standing with Peter.

James was probably in the right technically for the Jewish law was also the civil law. we are not excused from obeying our civil laws when we are saved. The upshot of the Jewish position historically taking the diaspora into account was to ensure the diminishing of the Jewish church and the overweening dominance of the Jew/Gentile church ... and yet a HUGE portion of the church still insists upon the keeping of the commandments of Moses as necessary to salvation ... how does it happen? from failing to recognise to who sermons and letters are addressed.

The Jewish writers veered always toward Moses and the prophets in the application of holiness, Paul, recognising that the Gentiles had never been given the law, has his emphasis upon the Holy Spirit and the inner life of Christ as the way to accomplish holy living.

 

[Absolutely]

you say ///When Paul spoke of "my gospel", he was obviously referring to the gospel that he received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ"./// What good news did Paul receive then ? Surely we can find out from Paul himself? Ok where shall we look ?

Jan 3: 16
Heavens good news.

All the apostles understood it.

Peter wavering was straightened out.

 

[throughfaith]

Jan 3: 16
Heavens good news.

All the apostles understood it.

Peter wavering was straightened out.

Everything before cross and even after the resurrection proves otherwise .
Luke 24 ( After the resurrection)

5And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

6He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

7Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

8¶And they remembered his words,

9And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

10It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

11And their words seemed to them as IDLE TALES , and they BELIEVED them NOT

12Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, WONDERING in himself at that which was come to pass.

Before the cross and after luke 9.6
Luke 18
31¶Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34¶And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Notice verse 34 .

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

and yet a HUGE portion of the church still insists upon the keeping of the commandments of Moses as necessary to salvation ... how does it happen?

Simple. Our pastors do not teach the Circumcision of Christ. It is this very Spiritual Circumcision that sets the Children of God free from the Law of Moses. Our pastors and teachers have their heads (typically) in their Bibles much more than the average person, so why is it that virtually no pastor teaches the Truth of Colossians 2:9-15? If we taught these Seven Perfect Verses, our world would be dramatically different, for by knowing the Truth, Christians are able to gauge their own Salvation.

Colossians 2:9-15 NIV - "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Simple. Our pastors do not teach the Circumcision of Christ. It is this very Spiritual Circumcision that sets the Children of God free from the Law of Moses. Our pastors and teachers have their heads (typically) in their Bibles much more than the average person, so why is it that virtually no pastor teaches the Truth of Colossians 2:9-15? If we taught these Seven Perfect Verses, our world would be dramatically different, for by knowing the Truth, Christians are able to gauge their own Salvation.

Colossians 2:9-15 NIV - "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel is not only Jesus does to forgive our sins , he also taught repentance and remission of sins through baptism all based on our belief of his word that is able to remove the sins within our hearts so we can walk in the light

 

[throughfaith]

“And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:46-47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the gospel is not only Jesus does to forgive our sins , he also taught repentance and remission of sins through baptism all based on our belief of his word that is able to remove the sins within our hearts so we can walk in the light

Yes but this is before the cross and to Israel . Today we preach redemption.

 

[Evmur]

Simple. Our pastors do not teach the Circumcision of Christ. It is this very Spiritual Circumcision that sets the Children of God free from the Law of Moses. Our pastors and teachers have their heads (typically) in their Bibles much more than the average person, so why is it that virtually no pastor teaches the Truth of Colossians 2:9-15? If we taught these Seven Perfect Verses, our world would be dramatically different, for by knowing the Truth, Christians are able to gauge their own Salvation.

Colossians 2:9-15 NIV - "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

Way I sees it is this

When we gets saved, we surrender to Christ, just like soldiers when they are beaten come out of their hiding places with their hands up, throwing themselves upon the mercy of their captors.

And God is very kind and merciful and accepts our surrender even though He knows that at the first opportunity we will recover our pride and start asaying how it was all our decision and freewill choice.

... we backslide

 

[Evmur]

Simple. Our pastors do not teach the Circumcision of Christ. It is this very Spiritual Circumcision that sets the Children of God free from the Law of Moses. Our pastors and teachers have their heads (typically) in their Bibles much more than the average person, so why is it that virtually no pastor teaches the Truth of Colossians 2:9-15? If we taught these Seven Perfect Verses, our world would be dramatically different, for by knowing the Truth, Christians are able to gauge their own Salvation.

Colossians 2:9-15 NIV - "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross."

So much depends upon who we listen to. I am eternally grateful to the older christian who not long after I was saved pressed a copy of C. H. Spurgeon's "All round ministry" into my hands and made me promise to read at least 20 pages before putting it aside.

I have not put Spurgeon aside to this day, more than 40 years later.

 

[throughfaith]

Way I sees it is this

When we gets saved, we surrender to Christ, just like soldiers when they are beaten come out of their hiding places with their hands up, throwing themselves upon the mercy of their captors.

And God is very kind and merciful and accepts our surrender even though He knows that at the first opportunity we will recover our pride and start asaying how it was all our decision and freewill choice.

... we backslide

Do we line up with 1 cor 1.21 kjv if we didn't believe ourselves ?

 

[throughfaith]

So much depends upon who we listen to. I am eternally grateful to the older christian who not long after I was saved pressed a copy of C. H. Spurgeon's "All round ministry" into my hands and made me promise to read at least 20 pages before putting it aside.

I have not put Spurgeon aside to this day, more than 40 years later.

I had to let go of spurgeons teaching when I realised he was a Calvinist.

 

[Evmur]

I had to let go of spurgeons teaching when I realised he was a Calvinist.

yeh well, I haven't become Calvinist, some people let go of Paul's teaching because he preached election and predestiny.