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This hardly deserves a response. Who are you to say who is annointed and refute everyone else's actual experience? Your condescending arrogance is grating. The husband is the head, NOT the wife. And I'm part of the bride yielding to Him. So are Oneness believers. Neither you nor the GOC have the authority to say who is or isn't qualified for salvation or annointing.
Perhaps you could obtain a seat on the San Hedrin.
Perhaps you could obtain a seat on the San Hedrin.
S
Your sarcasm is not appreciate. I did not slander you personally, nor say anything about salvation.
I didn't say who is or not say who is qualified for salvation. That is up to God. But if Oneness means Sabellianism, Sabellianism has already been condemned. It is false teaching. One cannot be in false doctrines and be part of a true bride of Christ. To deny the Trinity is to deny the truth of God. God is not one Person only. He is three persons. To deny this is to deny Matthew 28:19, and then the rest of the Scripture can be denied. And then we have no basis for sound doctrine, just personal opinions. It will be decided by God on the salvation question. I wasn't question whether or not you personally were saved. I wasn't even bringing up the salvation question. I was just stating there is such thing as false teaching, and to deny the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is to deny what the Bible says about God. Take care!
In Erie PA Scott H.
I didn't say who is or not say who is qualified for salvation. That is up to God. But if Oneness means Sabellianism, Sabellianism has already been condemned. It is false teaching. One cannot be in false doctrines and be part of a true bride of Christ. To deny the Trinity is to deny the truth of God. God is not one Person only. He is three persons. To deny this is to deny Matthew 28:19, and then the rest of the Scripture can be denied. And then we have no basis for sound doctrine, just personal opinions. It will be decided by God on the salvation question. I wasn't question whether or not you personally were saved. I wasn't even bringing up the salvation question. I was just stating there is such thing as false teaching, and to deny the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is to deny what the Bible says about God. Take care!
In Erie PA Scott H.
Well, we've had several back-and-forth convos about this. I do, indeed, deny the Trinity. I affirm the Father-Son-Holy Ghost, but not as distinct persons with separate minds-wills. I'm not Sabellian, but God is One Divinity (Divine Person). I affirm Matt. 28:19, of course; but not that they are persons. Also, that "formula" for baptism is clarified by the six scriptural examples of baptism. The singular name for the F-S-HS is Jesus, who hath been made both Lord and Christ.
How do you explain Matt. 28:19 in light of those six baptisms in Jesus' name? None were baptized reciting Matt. 28:19 titles. F-S-HS baptism is no-name baptism.
As for Oneness, I will freely worship with the annointed true Oneness Christians, but have little desire to ever enter another Trinity crypt of God-person-schizophrenia. An orthodox church that missed the key foundation of faith by formulating Trinity has no place to declare any Godhead belief anathema.
Direct questions:
Can Sabellianists in general be considered believers?
I deny the Trinity and that God is three persons. Can I be considered a believer?
Oddly enough, the Journey41 chick (with the list of "unusual" beliefs) is the closest to Divine truth about who God is. She's missing the appropriate consolidation of F-S-HS, but her basic understanding is more defining than the extra-biblical absurdity of three persons.
You will deny anything but Orthodox Trinity, regardless of extensive overwhelming and irrefutable exegesis of Scripture.
See?... One minute it seems I'm almost Orthodox; the next minute it seems I'm a total heretic. When I have the freedom to lay it all out, it'll be self-explanatory. Simple as it is, your Trinity mindset will not understand. You won't consider anything apart from the GOC indoctrination.
How do you explain Matt. 28:19 in light of those six baptisms in Jesus' name? None were baptized reciting Matt. 28:19 titles. F-S-HS baptism is no-name baptism.
As for Oneness, I will freely worship with the annointed true Oneness Christians, but have little desire to ever enter another Trinity crypt of God-person-schizophrenia. An orthodox church that missed the key foundation of faith by formulating Trinity has no place to declare any Godhead belief anathema.
Direct questions:
Can Sabellianists in general be considered believers?
I deny the Trinity and that God is three persons. Can I be considered a believer?
Oddly enough, the Journey41 chick (with the list of "unusual" beliefs) is the closest to Divine truth about who God is. She's missing the appropriate consolidation of F-S-HS, but her basic understanding is more defining than the extra-biblical absurdity of three persons.
You will deny anything but Orthodox Trinity, regardless of extensive overwhelming and irrefutable exegesis of Scripture.
See?... One minute it seems I'm almost Orthodox; the next minute it seems I'm a total heretic. When I have the freedom to lay it all out, it'll be self-explanatory. Simple as it is, your Trinity mindset will not understand. You won't consider anything apart from the GOC indoctrination.
Z
Hey,
This is just a suggestion, but you should create a new thread with your beliefs posted first (and then let others respond to that). Just a suggestion.
And I wanted to ask you a question: You believe Jesus is the only person, correct? What are the Father and Holy Spirit defined as, in your view, or correctly defined as?
This is just a suggestion, but you should create a new thread with your beliefs posted first (and then let others respond to that). Just a suggestion.
And I wanted to ask you a question: You believe Jesus is the only person, correct? What are the Father and Holy Spirit defined as, in your view, or correctly defined as?
A
God is not a "Trinity crypt of God-person-schizophrenia". The trinity is this: one being, three persons. All three have shared desires thus not "schizophrenia". The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have all distinct missions but are all one God. Only God can understand this, we cannot.
If you do not believe in the trinity then why does Jesus sit on a throne WITH the Father? (Hebrews 1:13 and Revelation 3:21)
It's easily explainable if one knows the truth. Why do they have to be persons? The Word doesn't say God is persons. It's a conceptualization based on indoctrination.
Before I disclose that, have you read my various posts and my lengthy affirmations and summary of God-models? It would be futile to converse if you aren't aware of what I mean or don't mean by what I say.
Three Divine Persons.
One Divinity with a Person Mode.
One Divinity and One Divine Person.
One Divinity and One Human Person.
Three Divinities.
All reconcilable to the simple truth of the Word. Everybody has been dancing around it since Nicea.
Before I disclose that, have you read my various posts and my lengthy affirmations and summary of God-models? It would be futile to converse if you aren't aware of what I mean or don't mean by what I say.
Three Divine Persons.
One Divinity with a Person Mode.
One Divinity and One Divine Person.
One Divinity and One Human Person.
Three Divinities.
All reconcilable to the simple truth of the Word. Everybody has been dancing around it since Nicea.
Here's a hint from Rev. 3:21
"...will I grant to sit with (meta G3226) me in my throne... ...am set down with (meta G3226) my Father in his throne."
(meta G3226) is amid, in the midst of. It is not (sun G4862) together. The difference is in companionship versus merely accompanying.
Oh... and where's the Holy Spirit in eternity? Is the HS not in the throne? Why or why not? Where IS the HS?!
"...will I grant to sit with (meta G3226) me in my throne... ...am set down with (meta G3226) my Father in his throne."
(meta G3226) is amid, in the midst of. It is not (sun G4862) together. The difference is in companionship versus merely accompanying.
Oh... and where's the Holy Spirit in eternity? Is the HS not in the throne? Why or why not? Where IS the HS?!
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S
We should not present our own ideas, because they are likely to be wrong. What is so great or true about presenting one's own ideas? One's own ideas should agree with the doctrines of the apostles, that is, of the NT. The NT comes from the Church. One does not want to present ideas that do not agree with what the Church thinks. We should have the mind of the Church in our own minds. We do not live to ourselves but to God. God lives in His Church.
Well, anyway, you are correct when you say the Trinity is sovereign.
Well, anyway, you are correct when you say the Trinity is sovereign.
S
You sometimes appear to be sound. But you have indicted yourself as some kind of believer in some kind of heresy. I am not an expert in defining and discerning every heresy. You say the name of the F-S-HS is Jesus. Not at all. Jesus is the name of the S, of the Son only. Call yourself a believer if you will, but you believe in an error. I am not here to judge or to pronounce anathema on anyone. The Holy Spirit can and will do that in your conscience. I pray God save you and reveal what is error to you. If you believe error, you need to stop believing it. I once believed error too, so I was a heretic. You could be a heretic too. Anyone can be persuaded and fooled by some sort of doctrinal error. It is not easy to understand the whole Bible. We may get some doctrines wrong for a while. Lord have mercy on us. God bless you. But the name Jesus Christ is the Son. And there is PROBABLY no such thing as a "total heretic". Even heretics believe some truths, and may have some things that are okay about them. And even non-heretics may sin. God save us all. As for me, I am not yet fully Orthodox myself. I am just learning things from the ROC. (EOC). I attend there when the weather is good. But as it is winter, I don't walk to church because it is too cold and too far away to walk. I go when I find the weather better.
C
This is what i will say....There is one God, but He is in three divine persons. they are all the same God but yet different persons.
Jesus is God but He is God and man at the same time
Holy Spirit is God but He is God that lives inside of us.
Father is God but He is the main guy that runs everything in the existence that is good.
They are all one God one divine being but separated as different divine persons.
so really Jesus is the Father but is not.....does this make sense for i might of learned of the trinity before i became a member of CC, God gave me this understanding for your benefit but you may comment, this is what God told me so take it under His hands not mine. Bible makes it also clear.
(Now persons does not always mean humans, in Christianity our belief persons is also divine natures of God of the Godhead)
shalom aleichem
Jesus is God but He is God and man at the same time
Holy Spirit is God but He is God that lives inside of us.
Father is God but He is the main guy that runs everything in the existence that is good.
They are all one God one divine being but separated as different divine persons.
so really Jesus is the Father but is not.....does this make sense for i might of learned of the trinity before i became a member of CC, God gave me this understanding for your benefit but you may comment, this is what God told me so take it under His hands not mine. Bible makes it also clear.
(Now persons does not always mean humans, in Christianity our belief persons is also divine natures of God of the Godhead)
shalom aleichem
That has been my intent from the beginning. For whatever reason, the Spirit has constrained me from doing so yet.
And I wanted to ask you a question: You believe Jesus is the only person, correct?[/QUOTE]
The Word only refers to Jesus as person (prosopon G4383). (in 2Cor. 2:10)
What are the Father and Holy Spirit defined as, in your view, or correctly defined as?[/QUOTE]
THAT is the neptillion-dollar question. THAT is the truth to be revealed. It's all in the Rhema-Logos, and I will share it soon.
Who spoke? Who's logos came forth? Is it God's logos in John 1 or is it Jesus' logos? Did Jesus speak His own logos? Or was Jesus the logos of God? Which does Trinity say, and is it correct?
And I wanted to ask you a question: You believe Jesus is the only person, correct?[/QUOTE]
The Word only refers to Jesus as person (prosopon G4383). (in 2Cor. 2:10)
What are the Father and Holy Spirit defined as, in your view, or correctly defined as?[/QUOTE]
THAT is the neptillion-dollar question. THAT is the truth to be revealed. It's all in the Rhema-Logos, and I will share it soon.
Who spoke? Who's logos came forth? Is it God's logos in John 1 or is it Jesus' logos? Did Jesus speak His own logos? Or was Jesus the logos of God? Which does Trinity say, and is it correct?
S
Sabellianists are believers in false doctrine, and Sabellianism was declared to be anathema and a heresy by the early Church. If we believe in the Church (Creed of 381 AD), we stand against Sabellius and his followers. Even if some of them are around today. The Church can not err or lie, even if individual members of the Church fall into error, the Church herself can not fall into error (Matt. 1618). Don't confuse the Church with any particular individual; any person may or may not be teaching what the whole catholic church (Orthodox Church) teaches. In Erie PA Scott H.
S
So, are you trying to say we can understand God? We must merely believe in the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, not understand what it means to say there are three persons. Of course, each person has a will and is a spirit, is a distinct person within the Godhead of One God. How this is possible is incomprehensible to the human mind. If you are attempting to understand and know God through Sabellius, Sabellianism, or Oneness, if Oneness is a form of Sabellianism, you are barking up the wrong tree. We need the tree of life, the tree of the Christian Church, the Church of the Cross of Christ. Not the assembly of Sabellius, who was excommunicated from the Church. In Erie PA Scott H.
What do you mean by "Oneness" by the way, PneumaPsucheSoma? Do you deny the Father, Son, and Spirit are three? If you can count, it is 1 Father 2 Son 3 Spirit Isn't that three persons within the Oneness (Unity) of God?
What do you mean by "Oneness" by the way, PneumaPsucheSoma? Do you deny the Father, Son, and Spirit are three? If you can count, it is 1 Father 2 Son 3 Spirit Isn't that three persons within the Oneness (Unity) of God?
S
Spell it out, Wonderland. 
There was no God-model formulation handed down by the Apostles. In the earliest years of the primitive Church, emphasis was given to a biblical mode of living rather than developing theology. As the need for apologetics emerged to combat Gnosticism and Polytheism, various formulations came about. All were primarily to maintain Monotheism while accounting for Jesus.
With variations, six basic God-models became well-developed from the late-1st century onward. One of those was Sabellianism/Monarchianism/Patripassianism, which is (are) the original forerunner(s) for modern Oneness doctrine. It wasn't that the Father was the Son, so much as it was One God manifested in various ways, including as the Son.
Trinity "won" the contest of God-models, and has declared all others anathema and heretical. Unitarianism, Binitarianism, Tritheism, Arianism, and Sabellianism have all been anathematized by the orthodox church and all other trinitarians.
All ecclesio-political leverage aside, Oneness is as valid as Trinity. Modes and Persons both need to give way to truth. The most annointed men of God I've known have all been Oneness.
There was no God-model formulation handed down by the Apostles. In the earliest years of the primitive Church, emphasis was given to a biblical mode of living rather than developing theology. As the need for apologetics emerged to combat Gnosticism and Polytheism, various formulations came about. All were primarily to maintain Monotheism while accounting for Jesus.
With variations, six basic God-models became well-developed from the late-1st century onward. One of those was Sabellianism/Monarchianism/Patripassianism, which is (are) the original forerunner(s) for modern Oneness doctrine. It wasn't that the Father was the Son, so much as it was One God manifested in various ways, including as the Son.
Trinity "won" the contest of God-models, and has declared all others anathema and heretical. Unitarianism, Binitarianism, Tritheism, Arianism, and Sabellianism have all been anathematized by the orthodox church and all other trinitarians.
All ecclesio-political leverage aside, Oneness is as valid as Trinity. Modes and Persons both need to give way to truth. The most annointed men of God I've known have all been Oneness.
I'm not a heretic. I also don't represent Trinity as heresy, just grossly incomplete. Trinity doesn't represent a thorough incision of the machaira of our High Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ.
What is the Father's name, then? Please don't say YHVH and lose all credibility.
What is the Holy Spirit's name? Please don't say Holy Spirit and lose all credibility.
God hath made Jesus both Lord and Christ. What does that mean?
All six original God-models and their formulations are error to some degree, including Trinity. An early now-rescinded minor guideline for asserting God's attributes has obscurred the truth.
What is the Father's name, then? Please don't say YHVH and lose all credibility.
What is the Holy Spirit's name? Please don't say Holy Spirit and lose all credibility.
God hath made Jesus both Lord and Christ. What does that mean?
All six original God-models and their formulations are error to some degree, including Trinity. An early now-rescinded minor guideline for asserting God's attributes has obscurred the truth.
The Church is not some stand-alone entity from the saints.
I don't care what the erroneous outcomes of ecclesio-political Councils were. The Word is inspired of the Holy Ghost. Any interpretation of men is merely that.
The Husband is the head, not the bride. I'll take the Logos Word over human word. God expressed Himself, and He didn't say persons; He said something ELSE. Person was substituted for perceived silence.
Please provide scripture that the Holy Spirit has a mind (nous G3563).
(I'm still waiting for Ante-Nicene Trinity doctrine documentation.)
I don't care what the erroneous outcomes of ecclesio-political Councils were. The Word is inspired of the Holy Ghost. Any interpretation of men is merely that.
The Husband is the head, not the bride. I'll take the Logos Word over human word. God expressed Himself, and He didn't say persons; He said something ELSE. Person was substituted for perceived silence.
Please provide scripture that the Holy Spirit has a mind (nous G3563).
(I'm still waiting for Ante-Nicene Trinity doctrine documentation.)
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