Jesus Christ is God BUT NOT THE FATHER - WHP CAME UP WITH THIS????

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

So, are you trying to say we can understand God?

Trinitarians are saying they understand God... up to a point, then it's a great mystery.

There is much more we can understand of God than assent to default indoctrination by formulation of man. Trinity is such an attempt as you condemn. What a monumental double standard. You can assent to any orthodox formulation that portends understanding God, but othere than that no man can understand God. God came to reveal Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, not conceal Himself. Read 1Cor. 2.

[/QUOTE]We must merely believe in the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, not understand what it means to say there are three persons.[/QUOTE]

You can choose to be made two-fold the child of hell if you want. My faith is in the Word of God, not men's doctrine.

Of course, each person has a will and is a spirit, is a distinct person within the Godhead of One God. How this is possible is incomprehensible to the human mind. If you are attempting to understand and know God through Sabellius, Sabellianism, or Oneness, if Oneness is a form of Sabellianism, you are barking up the wrong tree.

I'm not Sabellianist (Oneness).

We need the tree of life, the tree of the Christian Church, the Church of the Cross of Christ. Not the assembly of Sabellius, who was excommunicated from the Church.

The tree of life is Jesus, not His bride. I'm not Sabellianist. (I've said it many times. Please stop.)

What do you mean by "Oneness" by the way, PneumaPsucheSoma? Do you deny the Father, Son, and Spirit are three?

No, I don't deny the F-S-HS are three. I posted a lengthy affirmation to avoid that misconception.

Oneness is the modern term for the current version of what was Sabellianism/Monarchianism/Patripassianism. I'm not Oneness. (Again...)

If you can count, it is 1 Father 2 Son 3 Spirit Isn't that three persons within the Oneness (Unity) of God?

See how you presumed that three automatically mean three persons? God is three. The three aren't persons.

(I'm still waiting for documentation of Ante-Nicene Trinity formulation from 30Ad-180AD. HELLO!)

 

[Sean4JC]

I'm actually kind of surprised to see this kind of theology over the Triune God. A lot of this sounds like Oneness Pentecostalism, which isn't Christian nor does it have a correct understanding of who God is. While I'm sure many on here might be anti-Creedal, below is the Athanasian Creed that speaks of the Triune God.
Whoeer desires to be saved must above all, hold the catholic (Christian-not the Roman Catholic Church denom) faith.
Whoever does not keep it whole and undefiled will without doubt perish eternally.
And the catholic faith is this,
that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance.
For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Holy Spirit is another.
But the Godhead of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit
the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Spirit uncreated;
the Father infinite, the Son infiinite, the Holy Spirit infinite,
the Father eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Spirit eternal
And yet there are not three Eternals, but one Eternal
just as there are not three Uncreated or three Infiinites, but one Uncreated and one Infinite
In the same way, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, the Holy Spirit almighty;
and yet there are not three Almighties, but One Almighty
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God,
and yet there are not three Gods but one God
So the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord,
and yet there are not three Lords, but one Lord
Just as we are compelled by the Christian truth to asknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord so also are we prohibited by the catholic (christian) religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords
The Father is not made nor created nor begotten by anyone
The Son is neither made nor created, but begotten of the Father alone
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, neither made nor created nor begotten, but proceeding,
Thus, there is one Father, not three Fathers, one Son, not three Sons, one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits, and in this Trinity none is before or after another, none is greater or less than another,
but the whole three persons are coeternal with each other and coequal so that in all things, as has been stated above the Trinity in Unity and Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped
Thereofre, whoever desires to be saved must hink thus about the Trinity,
But it is alsoc necessary for everlasting slavation that one faithfully beleive the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore it is the right faith that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is a tthe same time both God and man. He is God, begotten from the substance of the Father before all ages, and He is man, born from the substance of His mother in this age. Perfect God and perfect man, composed of a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father with respect to His divinity, less than the Father with respect to His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two but one Christ
one, however not by the conversion of the divnity into flesh but by the assumption of the humanity into God. one altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ, who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell rose agin the third day from the dead. ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence He will come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming all people will rise again with their bodies and give an account concerning their own deeds. And those who have done good will enter into eternal life, and those who have done evil in eternal fire (properly understand, this doesn't ref. to works righteousness folks)
This is the catholic faith, whoever does not believe it faithfully and firmly cannot be saved

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Dear PneumaPsucheSoma, I recommend you learn why Sabellianism is non-biblical under Sabellianism on GOOGLE at orthodoxwiki.org God bless you. Are you a Oneness Pentecostal? Or are you just a Oneness believer, and not a Pentecostal? I was a Pentecostal, but a Trinitarian. I consider Pentecostalism an error, but I try to repudiate it. I don't believe it, but I still have the glossolalia problem. I consider it an mental aberration I picked up from the Assemblies of God group. I don't blame anyone, mostly myself for not understand the Bible correctly. God save me. Take care. God bless you.

I don't need to Google Oneness. I've studied all the God-models for 13 years with prayer and much fasting while in the Word and led by the Spirit.

I'm not Oneness. I'm semi-Pentecostal, but the gifts are misused and abused. I'm a simple non-cessationist.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I'm actually kind of surprised to see this kind of theology over the Triune God. A lot of this sounds like Oneness Pentecostalism, which isn't Christian nor does it have a correct understanding of who God is. While I'm sure many on here might be anti-Creedal, below is the Athanasian Creed that speaks of the Triune God.
Whoeer desires to be saved must above all, hold the catholic (Christian-not the Roman Catholic Church denom) faith.
Whoever does not keep it whole and undefiled will without doubt perish eternally.
And the catholic faith is this,
that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance.
For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Holy Spirit is another.
But the Godhead of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit
the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Spirit uncreated;
the Father infinite, the Son infiinite, the Holy Spirit infinite,
the Father eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Spirit eternal
And yet there are not three Eternals, but one Eternal
just as there are not three Uncreated or three Infiinites, but one Uncreated and one Infinite
In the same way, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, the Holy Spirit almighty;
and yet there are not three Almighties, but One Almighty
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God,
and yet there are not three Gods but one God
So the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord,
and yet there are not three Lords, but one Lord
Just as we are compelled by the Christian truth to asknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord so also are we prohibited by the catholic (christian) religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords
The Father is not made nor created nor begotten by anyone
The Son is neither made nor created, but begotten of the Father alone
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, neither made nor created nor begotten, but proceeding,
Thus, there is one Father, not three Fathers, one Son, not three Sons, one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits, and in this Trinity none is before or after another, none is greater or less than another,
but the whole three persons are coeternal with each other and coequal so that in all things, as has been stated above the Trinity in Unity and Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped
Thereofre, whoever desires to be saved must hink thus about the Trinity,
But it is alsoc necessary for everlasting slavation that one faithfully beleive the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore it is the right faith that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is a tthe same time both God and man. He is God, begotten from the substance of the Father before all ages, and He is man, born from the substance of His mother in this age. Perfect God and perfect man, composed of a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father with respect to His divinity, less than the Father with respect to His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two but one Christ
one, however not by the conversion of the divnity into flesh but by the assumption of the humanity into God. one altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ, who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell rose agin the third day from the dead. ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence He will come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming all people will rise again with their bodies and give an account concerning their own deeds. And those who have done good will enter into eternal life, and those who have done evil in eternal fire (properly understand, this doesn't ref. to works righteousness folks)
This is the catholic faith, whoever does not believe it faithfully and firmly cannot be saved

Do you know anything about the history and origin of the Athanasian Creed? It was anonymous, not penned by its attributed author, and likely from Gaul. It includes the Filioque error.

Do you have a clue about the history of Godhead doctrinal formulation?

Trinitarians are always shocked when their default indoctrination is challenged.

Most don't know anything else. People believe what they know; they don't know what to believe.

Present a thorough Scriptural Trinity apologetic. Don't quote adopted anonymous creeds that are post-schizm and unauthenticated.

 

[ONE_LORD]

The reason trinitarians say "IT'S A MYSTERY" is because it is nowhere in the Word of God. all they have to do is look at 1Tim. 3:16 "MYSTERY" solved without controversy !! Hear oh Israel the Lord our God is ONE Lord. JESUS IS THE MIGHTY GOD IS. 9:6 JESUS IS THE EVERLAST FATHER JESUS IS GOD!
Read it Study it Pray before the ONE throne And God will give you the understanding .BUT for God's sake and your salvation QUIT blindly following what mommy taught you and what you hear on tv !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sean4JC]

Pneuma,
Yes, I understand church history and when you look at the Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian Creed, they are in unison. It is not surprising when non-christian cults/sects attack the orthodox Christian faith because that puts them on the defensive. Like Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, Oneness Pentecostals, they try to interpret Scripture through their doctrinal lens. If you reject the view that there is one God, in three Persons, then you have not the True God and therefore you are not saved. Unfortunately through these posts, which can hardly be a theological discussion, it is heavily oneness pentecostal-which is not christian and a much more thorough study of scriptures is greatly needed. As to One-Lord's quote about it being a mystery, he has a wrong understanding-when Christians say Mystery they simply mean that it is beyond our futile human understanding to truly grasp the Divine Nature of the one, holy God and therefore should not try to use human reason in figuring it out.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Pneuma,
Yes, I understand church history and when you look at the Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian Creed, they are in unison. It is not surprising when non-christian cults/sects attack the orthodox Christian faith because that puts them on the defensive. Like Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, Oneness Pentecostals, they try to interpret Scripture through their doctrinal lens. If you reject the view that there is one God, in three Persons, then you have not the True God and therefore you are not saved. Unfortunately through these posts, which can hardly be a theological discussion, it is heavily oneness pentecostal-which is not christian and a much more thorough study of scriptures is greatly needed. As to One-Lord's quote about it being a mystery, he has a wrong understanding-when Christians say Mystery they simply mean that it is beyond our futile human understanding to truly grasp the Divine Nature of the one, holy God and therefore should not try to use human reason in figuring it out.

Then stop hypocritically trying to figure it out through Trinity doctrine. I'm not Oneness. I'm not Trinity.

And stop judging the hearts of men, if only for your own sake. Provide Scripture that says non-Trinitarians are unsaved? Post Scripture that God is persons of any quantity? Post Scripture, not your drivel of default indoctrination.

If it's such a mystery, how do you know what you know? Indoctrination.

Post Scripture. Your description that this is not a theological discussion is ridiculous. It includes your post, so I guess you admit your view isn't theology.

Scripture... not opinion.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Pneuma,
Yes, I understand church history and when you look at the Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian Creed, they are in unison.

A mention of Creeds, and a misrepresentation of their unified content is NOT a historical understanding. The Athanasian is anonymous, from no Council, and contains Filioque.

Tell me in great detail of the period from circa 30AD-325AD and beyond in regards to Godhead formulation. Quotes from ANFs will help.

Then your own personal Trinity apologetic process with Scripture.

Where does the Word say God is three persons?

 

[Sean4JC]

Pneuma,
I'd say that at this point for your life, a lesson in church history is really the last thing you need. Rather, I believe that you must focus on the Word and I do pray that you come to know the Triune God as revealed in Scripture. Now I don't know if you believe Jesus is God but for the sake of time, we'll just focus on God the Father and only in small increments. I also hope that others can add to this post b/c of the time constraint.

God the Father
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth Genesis 1:1
Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one- Deut.6:4
But now, O Lord you are our Father, we are the clay, and you are our potter, we are all the work of your hand- Isaiah 64:8
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God- Psalm 90:2
John 17

These are only a few but I want you to be able to see that there is only one God, the Creator, Redeemer, and Sustainer of all things
You'll be in my prayers Pneuma as you read, mark, and inwardly digest God's holy Word

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Pneuma,
I'd say that at this point for your life, a lesson in church history is really the last thing you need. Rather, I believe that you must focus on the Word and I do pray that you come to know the Triune God as revealed in Scripture. Now I don't know if you believe Jesus is God but for the sake of time, we'll just focus on God the Father and only in small increments. I also hope that others can add to this post b/c of the time constraint.

God the Father
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth Genesis 1:1
Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one- Deut.6:4
But now, O Lord you are our Father, we are the clay, and you are our potter, we are all the work of your hand- Isaiah 64:8
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God- Psalm 90:2
John 17

These are only a few but I want you to be able to see that there is only one God, the Creator, Redeemer, and Sustainer of all things
You'll be in my prayers Pneuma as you read, mark, and inwardly digest God's holy Word

I'll refer you to post #72 in the "Jesus' God" thread. I just bumped it with my extensive affirmation of belief.

I was a Trinitarian for 28 years, and in Pastoral ministry for 12; and I was lost. Trinity had obscurred the truth for me. I was gloriously saved 13 years ago.

I'll post a thorough exegesis of the Godhead in due time. You have no need to evangelize me.

 

[Scotth1960]

I'll refer you to post #72 in the "Jesus' God" thread. I just bumped it with my extensive affirmation of belief.

I was a Trinitarian for 28 years, and in Pastoral ministry for 12; and I was lost. Trinity had obscurred the truth for me. I was gloriously saved 13 years ago.

I'll post a thorough exegesis of the Godhead in due time. You have no need to evangelize me.

You were not lost if you were a Trinitarian and also kept the 10 commandments. It is not doctrine alone, but ethics, that are part of Christian spiritualize. Someone, and it really appears that is the devil, is accusing you falsely of believing false doctrine, if you think the doctrine of the Trinity is not from God. Maybe you believed in Filioque. Maybe not. If you did, you believed in a false and semi-Sabellian form of the Trinity. It is not true Trinitarianism. If your doctrine of the Trinity was Orthodox, you were not lost, but a Christian. And of course other things are required, but maybe more on this later, as the Lord permits. We also need sacraments. Without them, we don't progress in our lives. Take care.
Without sacraments, salvation is not real.

 

[Ash_JFF]

You you people not understand that God is ONE AND the TRINITY? He is both: ONE being, THREE persons. If you do not believe that then explain this verse:

Genesis 1:26

Notice God is speaking about Himself in the PLURAL.

 

[Scotth1960]

Trinitarians are saying they understand God... up to a point, then it's a great mystery.

There is much more we can understand of God than assent to default indoctrination by formulation of man. Trinity is such an attempt as you condemn. What a monumental double standard. You can assent to any orthodox formulation that portends understanding God, but othere than that no man can understand God. God came to reveal Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, not conceal Himself. Read 1Cor. 2.

We must merely believe in the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, not understand what it means to say there are three persons.[/quote]

You can choose to be made two-fold the child of hell if you want. My faith is in the Word of God, not men's doctrine.



I'm not Sabellianist (Oneness).Perhaps I over state it. Jesus is the tree of life, true. Jesus is the true vine: the church is the branches. That is what I was hinting at. The thing is, the Church is not an institution, it is the Body of Christ. It is the presence of Christ in the world; it is Christ's Body in the form of believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
But you falsely accuse me of teaching the doctrine of men. I believe in the Word of God.
The word of God, the words of God, are not against three persons, against the Trinity. What else is the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, than the Trinity. If you have any better explanation of what these words mean, kindly share it with us. Otherwise, quit accusing about doctrines of men. If I am misrepresenting the doctrine of Orthodoxy, I will recant. It seems to me the EOC believes in the Trinity. God is one. If you believe God is only one person, it is your doctrine that is doctrine of men, not the Word of God. If you think Father Son and Spirit are all Jesus, you are not telling us what the Word of God says. The Bible does say all the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Jesus Christ. This means the Father and the Spirit are in Christ the Son. Christ said in John (I believe it's in John's Gospel), "I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me". He did say, "I and the Father are one". All three persons indwell in each other. But they are not the same persons as each other. If you think they are all the same person, you are confusing things. No man can understand God, but we can understand the doctrine about God, which is how God reveals Himself, through the doctrine of the Church. Especially the Creed of 381 AD. This is the tradition of God. Not a tradition of men. It is the true teaching about the meaning of the NT. The entire NT is summed up in the articles of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 AD. God bless you.




The tree of life is Jesus, not His bride. I'm not Sabellianist. (I've said it many times. Please stop.)



No, I don't deny the F-S-HS are three. I posted a lengthy affirmation to avoid that misconception.

Oneness is the modern term for the current version of what was Sabellianism/Monarchianism/Patripassianism. I'm not Oneness. (Again...)



See how you presumed that three automatically mean three persons? God is three. The three aren't persons.

(I'm still waiting for documentation of Ante-Nicene Trinity formulation from 30Ad-180AD. HELLO!)[/quote]

 

[Scotth1960]

I don't need to Google Oneness. I've studied all the God-models for 13 years with prayer and much fasting while in the Word and led by the Spirit.

I'm not Oneness. I'm semi-Pentecostal, but the gifts are misused and abused. I'm a simple non-cessationist.

Were you ever in the Assemblies of God? I was. Maybe that makes me a semi-Pentecostal, too. Or an ex-Pentecostal. I repudiate the value of glossolalia as I practiced it. I view it the fruit of an ungodly tongue, which is something I confess I sinned with my mouth and my words. I did bad things and said bad things. I sinned a lot. I have had a lot to confess to the EOC.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

You were not lost if you were a Trinitarian and also kept the 10 commandments. It is not doctrine alone, but ethics, that are part of Christian spiritualize. Someone, and it really appears that is the devil, is accusing you falsely of believing false doctrine, if you think the doctrine of the Trinity is not from God. Maybe you believed in Filioque. Maybe not. If you did, you believed in a false and semi-Sabellian form of the Trinity. It is not true Trinitarianism. If your doctrine of the Trinity was Orthodox, you were not lost, but a Christian. And of course other things are required, but maybe more on this later, as the Lord permits. We also need sacraments. Without them, we don't progress in our lives. Take care.
Without sacraments, salvation is not real.

I was lost. It wasn't a lying spirit or false accusation. How can one believe in whom he has not heard? I hadn't heard the true Gospel or been scripturally baptized.

 

[Scotth1960]

A mention of Creeds, and a misrepresentation of their unified content is NOT a historical understanding. The Athanasian is anonymous, from no Council, and contains Filioque.

Tell me in great detail of the period from circa 30AD-325AD and beyond in regards to Godhead formulation. Quotes from ANFs will help.

Then your own personal Trinity apologetic process with Scripture.

Where does the Word say God is three persons?

I thought you said you were not following sola Scriptura? If you are insisting the Word of God must say "person" before you will believe it, are you not resorting to the practice of sola Scriptura. If you are saying you are sola (something else), I forgot what you said. You said you were "sola X" .... what did you say? Sorry, I wasn't paying attention. You haven't convinced me you aren't relying on sola scriptura but I apologize if I am misrepresenting your true position. I am fallible. If you are not sola scriptura, does the word of God have to say persons? What is the Church says persons? Well, the Church does use the word persons. Technically, the term is hypostasis. The Greek speaking fathers use the term hypostases, persons. Person is the nearest Latin equivalent. Are you objecting because Latin is not as precise or the same as the Greek? Latin can more easily be misunderstood by the Greek-speaking church. The problem was, as time went by, the Greek speaking fathers lost their knowledge of Latin, if they ever had it, and the Latin speaking fathers lost their knowledge of Greek, if they ever had it. Greek was a language the apostles chose, and it was sanctified by the presence of the Holy Spirit in the apostles. Therefore the best theologians wrote in Greek, not in Latin. Some of the error in the early Church came through the Latin theologian Augustine of Hippo, who did not seem to know Greek, or very much of it. It is not necessarily a bad thing. I know little Greek. Perhaps I would be better acquainted with the truths of the NT if I knew Greek. Then I could say better about problem passages in the English translations of the Greek NT. In any case, the Greek fathers used the word hupostasis. Are you going to say they were false teachers, then, since you repudiate the term hypostasis or person? Which ancient teacher is your guide? If you are claiming your teaching is the same faith as the ancient faith once delivered to the saints, which ancient saint wrote against persons?
Or is your teaching a new thing? It is not necessarily false if it is new, but it is more likely to be true if it is old. The Scripture, "Remove not the old landmark ..." There are ancient landmarks, ancient doctrines, which we should learn to understand the NT. Take care.
God bless you.

 

[zackabba]

Trinitarians are saying they understand God... up to a point, then it's a great mystery.

There is much more we can understand of God than assent to default indoctrination by formulation of man. Trinity is such an attempt as you condemn. What a monumental double standard. You can assent to any orthodox formulation that portends understanding God, but othere than that no man can understand God. God came to reveal Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, not conceal Himself. Read 1Cor. 2.

We must merely believe in the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, not understand what it means to say there are three persons.[/quote]

You can choose to be made two-fold the child of hell if you want. My faith is in the Word of God, not men's doctrine.



I'm not Sabellianist (Oneness).



The tree of life is Jesus, not His bride. I'm not Sabellianist. (I've said it many times. Please stop.)



No, I don't deny the F-S-HS are three. I posted a lengthy affirmation to avoid that misconception.

Oneness is the modern term for the current version of what was Sabellianism/Monarchianism/Patripassianism. I'm not Oneness. (Again...)



See how you presumed that three automatically mean three persons? God is three. The three aren't persons.

(I'm still waiting for documentation of Ante-Nicene Trinity formulation from 30Ad-180AD. HELLO!)[/quote]

So, let me get this straight:

You believe in a tri-unity, but you just don't agree with the terminology Trinitarians use for each member of the Godhead? F-S-HS

God Bless

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

We must merely believe in the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, not understand what it means to say there are three persons.

You can choose to be made two-fold the child of hell if you want. My faith is in the Word of God, not men's doctrine.

I'm not Sabellianist (Oneness).

Perhaps I over state it. Jesus is the tree of life, true. Jesus is the true vine: the church is the branches. That is what I was hinting at. The thing is, the Church is not an institution, it is the Body of Christ. It is the presence of Christ in the world; it is Christ's Body in the form of believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
But you falsely accuse me of teaching the doctrine of men.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't personal toward you. Please don't think it was, Brother.

I believe in the Word of God. The word of God, the words of God, are not against three persons, against the Trinity.

That's a bit of a technicality. Not untrue, not true. Sorta paradoxical. It's not the "deepest" truth.

What else is the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, than the Trinity. If you have any better explanation of what these words mean, kindly share it with us.

For whatever reason, I have been constrained by the Spirit to do so yet. It is my intent, though, and I will soon. The procession of the Holy Spirit is a HUGE key (ekporeuomai). That's why I despise Filioque error.

Otherwise, quit accusing about doctrines of men. If I am misrepresenting the doctrine of Orthodoxy, I will recant. It seems to me the EOC believes in the Trinity.

You have not. You have been exemplary according to orthodoxy. Forgive me if this seems personal; it is not. Yes, the EOC believes Trinity.

God is one. If you believe God is only one person, it is your doctrine that is doctrine of men, not the Word of God.

Untrue. God is not person(s) of ANY quantity. I don't believe God is one person. God is One Divinity, which I agreed for communication sake to refer to as One Divine Person. Theotes (Godhead, Divinity) is specifically a singular personality, not multiples.

If you think Father Son and Spirit are all Jesus, you are not telling us what the Word of God says.

I don't. Read my affirmations again.

The Bible does say all the fullness of the Godhead bodily dwells in Jesus Christ. This means the Father and the Spirit are in Christ the Son.

YEEEEEEEEES!! If you only knew what you just said!

Christ said in John (I believe it's in John's Gospel), "I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me". He did say, "I and the Father are one". All three persons indwell in each other. But they are not the same persons as each other.

Kick out the word person and it's true. I've affirmed this.

If you think they are all the same person, you are confusing things.

I don't. And God isn't person(s).

No man can understand God, but we can understand the doctrine about God, which is how God reveals Himself, through the doctrine of the Church. Especially the Creed of 381 AD. This is the tradition of God. Not a tradition of men. It is the true teaching about the meaning of the NT. The entire NT is summed up in the articles of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 AD. God bless you.

I well understand your position. Read 1Cor. 2, please. We can understand God more than you realize.

The tree of life is Jesus, not His bride. I'm not Sabellianist. (I've said it many times. Please stop.)

No, I don't deny the F-S-HS are three. I posted a lengthy affirmation to avoid that misconception.

Oneness is the modern term for the current version of what was Sabellianism/Monarchianism/Patripassianism. I'm not Oneness. (Again...)

See how you presumed that three automatically mean three persons? God is three. The three aren't persons.

(I'm still waiting for documentation of Ante-Nicene Trinity formulation from 30Ad-180AD. HELLO!)

I know your head is probably about to explode. Think. Pray. Fast. Read.

Again, a huge key is in ekporeuomai (G1607) in John 15:26.

 

[Scotth1960]

I'm actually kind of surprised to see this kind of theology over the Triune God. A lot of this sounds like Oneness Pentecostalism, which isn't Christian nor does it have a correct understanding of who God is. While I'm sure many on here might be anti-Creedal, below is the Athanasian Creed that speaks of the Triune God.
Whoeer desires to be saved must above all, hold the catholic (Christian-not the Roman Catholic Church denom) faith.
Whoever does not keep it whole and undefiled will without doubt perish eternally.
And the catholic faith is this,
that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance.
For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Holy Spirit is another.
But the Godhead of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit
the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, the Holy Spirit uncreated;
the Father infinite, the Son infiinite, the Holy Spirit infinite,
the Father eternal, the Son eternal, the Holy Spirit eternal
And yet there are not three Eternals, but one Eternal
just as there are not three Uncreated or three Infiinites, but one Uncreated and one Infinite
In the same way, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, the Holy Spirit almighty;
and yet there are not three Almighties, but One Almighty
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God,
and yet there are not three Gods but one God
So the Father is Lord, the Son is Lord, the Holy Spirit is Lord,
and yet there are not three Lords, but one Lord
Just as we are compelled by the Christian truth to asknowledge each distinct person as God and Lord so also are we prohibited by the catholic (christian) religion to say that there are three Gods or Lords
The Father is not made nor created nor begotten by anyone
The Son is neither made nor created, but begotten of the Father alone

The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, neither made nor created nor begotten, but proceeding,


This line right above is heretical. To correct its FILIOQUE error, we should say, "The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding from the Father alone. Then the so called "Athanasian" creed (it was not written by St. Athanasius!) would be Orthodox.

Thus, there is one Father, not three Fathers, one Son, not three Sons, one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits, and in this Trinity none is before or after another, none is greater or less than another,
but the whole three persons are coeternal with each other and coequal so that in all things, as has been stated above the Trinity in Unity and Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped
Thereofre, whoever desires to be saved must hink thus about the Trinity,
But it is alsoc necessary for everlasting slavation that one faithfully beleive the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore it is the right faith that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is a tthe same time both God and man. He is God, begotten from the substance of the Father before all ages, and He is man, born from the substance of His mother in this age. Perfect God and perfect man, composed of a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father with respect to His divinity, less than the Father with respect to His humanity. Although He is God and man, He is not two but one Christ
one, however not by the conversion of the divnity into flesh but by the assumption of the humanity into God. one altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ, who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell rose agin the third day from the dead. ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence He will come to judge the living and the dead. At His coming all people will rise again with their bodies and give an account concerning their own deeds. And those who have done good will enter into eternal life, and those who have done evil in eternal fire (properly understand, this doesn't ref. to works righteousness folks)

This is the catholic faith, whoever does not believe it faithfully and firmly cannot be saved

One can be saved without believing the Spirit proceeds from the Father AND THE SON. IT IS ANATHEMA TO BELIEVE THE SPIRIT PROCEEDS FROM THE SON (AND THE SON, FILIOQUE, IS HERESY!)

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

We must merely believe in the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, not understand what it means to say there are three persons.

You can choose to be made two-fold the child of hell if you want. My faith is in the Word of God, not men's doctrine.



I'm not Sabellianist (Oneness).



The tree of life is Jesus, not His bride. I'm not Sabellianist. (I've said it many times. Please stop.)



No, I don't deny the F-S-HS are three. I posted a lengthy affirmation to avoid that misconception.

Oneness is the modern term for the current version of what was Sabellianism/Monarchianism/Patripassianism. I'm not Oneness. (Again...)

See how you presumed that three automatically mean three persons? God is three. The three aren't persons.

(I'm still waiting for documentation of Ante-Nicene Trinity formulation from 30Ad-180AD. HELLO!)[/quote]

So, let me get this straight:

You believe in a tri-unity, but you just don't agree with the terminology Trinitarians use for each member of the Godhead? F-S-HS

God Bless[/QUOTE]

No. Tri-Unity and Trinity are discrete, not distinct. The problem with person is the conceptualization, not the word itself. Man was originally made in God's image and likeness. Are you three persons of one individual?