Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

[livingbygrace]

I learned that the human mind needs around (35) exposures to be able to recite, verbatim, the pledge of allegiance of our flag with comprehension. It never hurts or hinders to reiterate certain points knowing that at some point it may be comprehended by the faculty of the human mind. I am not talking about about spiritual understanding but I am talking about the comprehension level and objectivity that makes up our ability to think with the faculty of the human mind we have been given. The Spirit takes that faculty and gives it understanding and revelation based on the objectivity of the inspired written word. That is not circular reasoning as some would refer to it but direct objective wisdom and understanding that produces faith in the mind and heart that can be received through humility or rejected through pride.

But the spirit would never contradict the requirements Christ set down for a person to have everlasting life.
So anyone who added to or took away from the requirement Christ made could not be being led of the Spirit, even if in their opinion they were


I would propose that when the heart has received the seed of God's word and Satan is able to come immediately and snatch it away, so that they would not be saved, is because the soil of the heart had no humility and was therefore unable to receive that seed with understanding. The knowledge of the word remained in the mind and could be used for religious convictions and purposes of good works that would support morality but not spirituality and never have the power or ability to give the hearer spiritual understanding or the power of a transformed and regenerated heart that would need the mercy and grace of God for every weakness, every sin and every failure that might befall the saved sinner through out his life.

It surely is the transformed heart that matters most. And what better way to know a heart has been truly transformed and loves God than when we can see that the individual only seeks the Glory for God from the bottom of their heart, and seeks no praise or recognition for themselves from man

There is no truer a way to know that wonderful transformation has taken place and that such a heart is one of humility

answers above

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I learned that the human mind needs around (35) exposures to be able to recite, verbatim, the pledge of allegiance of our flag with comprehension. It never hurts or hinders to reiterate certain points knowing that at some point it may be comprehended by the faculty of the human mind. I am not talking about about spiritual understanding but I am talking about the comprehension level and objectivity that makes up our ability to think with the faculty of the human mind we have been given. The Spirit takes that faculty and gives it understanding and revelation based on the objectivity of the inspired written word. That is not circular reasoning as some would refer to it but direct objective wisdom and understanding that produces faith in the mind and heart that can be received through humility or rejected through pride.

The mind is a soul faculty. Your overview shows you don't have an understanding of man's constitution as spirit-soul-body. Wisdom is not what you describe it to be, either.

I would propose that when the heart has received the seed of God's word and Satan is able to come immediately and snatch it away, so that they would not be saved, is because the soil of the heart had no humility and was therefore unable to receive that seed with understanding. The knowledge of the word remained in the mind and could be used for religious convictions and purposes of good works that would support morality but not spirituality and never have the power or ability to give the hearer spiritual understanding or the power of a transformed and regenerated heart that would need the mercy and grace of God for every weakness, every sin and every failure that might befall the saved sinner through out his life.

Getting closer.

 

[wakeup]

in the beginning (past event) was (past tense 1st/3rd person singualar verb) with(pros..face to face or towrd, in context of the sentence) God. get the idea.

Jesus was face to face with god in the beginning, two persons not one..one person cannot be face to face or toward himself. nor can an idea or fiat be face to face.

Yes I know you can look up a lexicon and give the reference to the words, but that holds nothing to your argument Pneuma, anyone can do that.

explain each of these words... what are the verbs, what is the tense, why use the prepositional 'with' used by John inspired by the Holy Spirit. Now don't just give a rant about some anti creedal thing. and How do the first verses relate to all what is said in John 1:1-18, and of course the rest of the book?

Thanks in advance.

im sorry but dont forget that God does not live in our time zone,so we can not realy use that word was; as a past tense,dont you think? and why does it say ''in the GEGINNING.? has God have a beginning?

 

[livingbygrace]

I
I would propose that when the heart has received the seed of God's word and Satan is able to come immediately and snatch it away, so that they would not be saved, is because the soil of the heart had no humility and was therefore unable to receive that seed with understanding. The knowledge of the word remained in the mind and could be used for religious convictions and purposes of good works that would support morality but not spirituality and never have the power or ability to give the hearer spiritual understanding or the power of a transformed and regenerated heart that would need the mercy and grace of God for every weakness, every sin and every failure that might befall the saved sinner through out his life.

May I ask how to you we may know if a person is truly Saved?

Christ said
By their fruits shall ye know them

But you believe that if a person claims a conversion experiance and immediately after this and for the next ten years constantly/ceaselessly, gets drunk, has affairs, beats their wife and does not read a Bible they in all probability are in a saved state.

So how do we discern if a person is truly saved? obviously not by their fruit if the above example is anything to go by, was Christ wrong?

 

[Red33]

May I ask how to you we may know if a person is truly Saved?

Christ said
By their fruits shall ye know them

But you believe that if a person claims a conversion experiance and immediately after this and for the next ten years constantly/ceaselessly, gets drunk, has affairs, beats their wife and does not read a Bible they in all probability are in a saved state.

So how do we discern if a person is truly saved? obviously not by their fruit if the above example is anything to go by, was Christ wrong?

You give this illustration over and over because you want me to judge that person and I will not do it. You are simply trying to gratify your own understanding through morality and relevant righteousness. If you want to judge them because of their sin, go right ahead, but I would rather give them the gospel of Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to convict their heart so that they would respond to God's mercy and grace which is able to save their soul and cover a multitude of sins. That's what I practice because that is what the scriptures teach and has been practiced toward me when Christ died for me when I was in sin and His enemy.

 

[livingbygrace]

You give this illustration over and over because you want me to judge that person and I will not do it. You are simply trying to gratify your own understanding through morality and relevant righteousness. If you want to judge them because of their sin, go right ahead, but I would rather give them the gospel of Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to convict their heart so that they would respond to God's mercy and grace which is able to save their soul and cover a multitude of sins. That's what I practice because that is what the scriptures teach and has been practiced toward me when Christ died for me when I was in sin and His enemy.

Well you haven't answered my question(yet again) this is becoming monotonous!

I could give you many scriptrures to show you your error in this, but what would be the point, plainly written scripture is not your bottom line

Can you tell me how long it may take to convict an individual not to constantly, beat their wife, get drunk and have continuos affairs? Obviously longer than ten years to you

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace

How does this fit in with your belief on this subject?

 

[zone]

with LBG. You should be able to answer his questions and shut him down with two words.

JESUS: THEOS

 

[zone]

It wasn't a rant. It was a refusal to acknowledge your attempt at exegesis and a refusal to exegete it myself for you.

I will have a blessed day in the name (singular) of the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. That one name for F-S-HS is Jesus. I will have a blessed day in the name of Jesus, though you didn't mention the name.

You be blessed in Jesus' name.

but PPS:
i say this respectfully.
if you have the way to once for all understand the GodHead, please give it to us.
use as much or as little detail as you wish, use language and/or illustrations: anything.

we can not understand what you know unless you teach it clearly so that all (or any who choose to consider it) can decide.
i know you do not believe Jesus was "created": so the antagonism over "the trinity" is NOT the issue here.

this is about whether Jesus Christ is ETERNALLY GOD (at least i think it is...LOL!)

we don't need to discuss the Trinity...it doesn't even have to enter this debate.

OP: "Re: Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh"

zone

 

[zone]

Well you haven't answered my question(yet again) this is becoming monotonous!

I could give you many scriptrures to show you your error in this, but what would be the point, plainly written scripture is not your bottom line

Can you tell me how long it may take to convict an individual not to constantly, beat their wife, get drunk and have continuos affairs? Obviously longer than ten years to you

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace

How does this fit in with your belief on this subject?

general reply (likely to be construed by some as antinomianism..oh well):

some entirely miss the point of what Red is saying.
Red is talking about God's MERCY AND GRACE (two words which are meaningless without the unworthy objects of that Mercy and Grace - sinners - like me).


First, “Can a Christian fall?” Yes. Some folks in the Bible may cause us to question whether they really ever came to faith in God, folks like Balaam or Samson or Saul. But we have no such questions regarding David. He is not only a believer, he is a model believer. In the Bible, David sets the standard because he is a man after God's heart. Nevertheless, this man David, in spite of his trust in God, in spite of his marvelous times of worship and his beautiful psalms, falls deeply into sin. If David can fall, so can we, which is precisely what Paul warns us about:

11 Now these things happened to them as an example were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall (1 Corinthians 10:11-12).

Second, “How far can a Christian fall?” This far. David not only commits the sin of adultery, he commits murder. I think it is safe to say that there is no sin of which the Christian is not capable in the flesh. I have heard people say, “I don't know how a person who _______ could have ever been a Christian.” There are times -- like this time for David -- when others will hardly know we are saved by the testimony of our actions.

Third, “How fast can a Christian fall?” This fast. It is amazing how quickly David falls into the sins depicted in this one chapter. Apart from God's sustaining grace, we can fall very far, very quickly. Let us be reminded of this fact from David's tragic experience.

Fourth, sin snowballs. Sin is not stagnant; it is not static. Sin grows. Look at the progression of sin in our text. David's sin starts when he ceases to act like a soldier and becomes a late sleeper. David's sin grows from adultery to murder. His sin begins very privately, but as the story progresses, more and more people become aware of it, and worse yet, more and more people become participants in it. His sin first acted out by his taking another man's wife, and then taking her husband's life, and along with his life, the lives of a number of men who must die with him to make his death credible. David's sin blossoms so that it transforms a true and loyal friend (Uriah) to his enemy, and his enemies (the Ammonites, and in some senses, Joab) into his allies.

Fifth, when we seek to conceal our sin, things only get worse. Thus, the best course of action is to confess our sins and to forsake them.

He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion (Proverbs 28:13).

How much better it would have been for David simply to have confessed his sin with Bathsheba and found forgiveness then, but he tries to cover up his sin, and it only makes matters worse.

Man has been seeking to cover up his sins ever since the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve thought they could cover their sins by hiding their nakedness, and if not this, by hiding themselves from God. But God lovingly sought them out, not only to rebuke them and to pronounce curses upon them, but to give them the promise of forgiveness. It was God who provided a covering for their sins. The sacrificial death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ is God's provision for covering our sins. Have you experienced it, my friend? If not, why not confess your sin now and receive God's gift of forgiveness in the person and work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary?

http://bible.org/seriespage/david-and-uriah-2-samuel-115-27

 

[livingbygrace]

The KJV of the Bible is reputed I believe to be a very good translation of the Bible
Also I think it took roughly 15 years for scholars from all over the world to write the NIV version.

I don't mean to be offensive but do Christians on this website believe they have a better understanding of the Greek text than did the writers of the KJV and NIV versions of the Bible when they translated it?

Not that I am impressed by scholars/theologians but I have to reference them in this instance


I don't wish myself to understand the Greek and pour through it, but as Christ clearly in scripture was refered to as 'God', but not the one true God, I do wonder where all this may lead

 

[livingbygrace]

general reply (likely to be construed by some as antinomianism..oh well):

some entirely miss the point of what Red is saying.
Red is talking about God's MERCY AND GRACE (two words which are meaningless without the unworthy objects of that Mercy and Grace - sinners - like me).


First, “Can a Christian fall?” Yes. Some folks in the Bible may cause us to question whether they really ever came to faith in God, folks like Balaam or Samson or Saul. But we have no such questions regarding David. He is not only a believer, he is a model believer. In the Bible, David sets the standard because he is a man after God's heart. Nevertheless, this man David, in spite of his trust in God, in spite of his marvelous times of worship and his beautiful psalms, falls deeply into sin. If David can fall, so can we, which is precisely what Paul warns us about:

11 Now these things happened to them as an example were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall (1 Corinthians 10:11-12).

Second, “How far can a Christian fall?” This far. David not only commits the sin of adultery, he commits murder. I think it is safe to say that there is no sin of which the Christian is not capable in the flesh. I have heard people say, “I don't know how a person who _______ could have ever been a Christian.” There are times -- like this time for David -- when others will hardly know we are saved by the testimony of our actions.

Third, “How fast can a Christian fall?” This fast. It is amazing how quickly David falls into the sins depicted in this one chapter. Apart from God's sustaining grace, we can fall very far, very quickly. Let us be reminded of this fact from David's tragic experience.

Fourth, sin snowballs. Sin is not stagnant; it is not static. Sin grows. Look at the progression of sin in our text. David's sin starts when he ceases to act like a soldier and becomes a late sleeper. David's sin grows from adultery to murder. His sin begins very privately, but as the story progresses, more and more people become aware of it, and worse yet, more and more people become participants in it. His sin first acted out by his taking another man's wife, and then taking her husband's life, and along with his life, the lives of a number of men who must die with him to make his death credible. David's sin blossoms so that it transforms a true and loyal friend (Uriah) to his enemy, and his enemies (the Ammonites, and in some senses, Joab) into his allies.

Fifth, when we seek to conceal our sin, things only get worse. Thus, the best course of action is to confess our sins and to forsake them.

He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion (Proverbs 28:13).

How much better it would have been for David simply to have confessed his sin with Bathsheba and found forgiveness then, but he tries to cover up his sin, and it only makes matters worse.

Man has been seeking to cover up his sins ever since the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve thought they could cover their sins by hiding their nakedness, and if not this, by hiding themselves from God. But God lovingly sought them out, not only to rebuke them and to pronounce curses upon them, but to give them the promise of forgiveness. It was God who provided a covering for their sins. The sacrificial death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ is God's provision for covering our sins. Have you experienced it, my friend? If not, why not confess your sin now and receive God's gift of forgiveness in the person and work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary?

http://bible.org/seriespage/david-and-uriah-2-samuel-115-27

You cannot equate David's sin to the example given

David had been a man after God's own heart and truly followed him and followed according to his paths

In the instance I have given which this pertains to is the following

A person claims a conversion experiance
Immediately after this the person constantly, ceaselessly, continuously FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS beats their wife, has multiple affairs, gets drunk and does not read a Bible

Red believes such a person is in all probability in a saved state.

Anyone who agrees with him does not understand the Gospel of grace, that is for sure, or the power of it to transform a life, and yet again has to dismiss MUCH PLAIN SCRIPTURE. But what is that compared to the hiuman wisdom found on the internet

sigh sigh

 

[zone]

You cannot equate David's sin to the example given

David had been a man after God's own heart and truly followed him and followed according to his paths

In the instance I have given which this pertains to is the following

A person claims a conversion experiance
Immediately after this the person constantly, ceaselessly, continuously FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS beats their wife, has multiple affairs, gets drunk and does not read a Bible

Red believes such a person is in all probability in a saved state.

Anyone who agrees with him does not understand the Gospel of grace, that is for sure, or the power of it to transform a life, and yet again has to dismiss MUCH PLAIN SCRIPTURE. But what is that compared to the hiuman wisdom found on the internet

sigh sigh

sin = transgression of the Law.
penalty for transgression?: damnation.
how we all doing?

 

[livingbygrace]

sin = transgression of the Law.
how we all doing?

You are not dloing very well at all Zone

You do not understand the true message or THE POWER OF THE CROSS TO TRANSFORM A LIFE

Have a read of Rom 7:4-11

Read verses 4-6 in the NIV and give me your opinion of what verse 5 means

Read verses 7-11 in the KJV and tell me what you make of them we can start there

 

[zone]

You are not dloing very well at all Zone

You do not understand the true message or THE POWER OF THE CROSS TO TRANSFORM A LIFE

Have a read of Rom 7:4-11

Read verses 4-6 in the NIV and give me your opinion of what verse 5 means

Read verses 7-11 in the KJV and tell me what you make of them we can start there

i was a homeless person who stabbed heroin needles in my arms.
i stumbled around under bridges looking for drops of whiskey in bottles.
i slept under newspapers.
i lost everything.
i spent two years in a catatonic depression.

then i found myself at Calvary. i heard the Law and i died.
i saw Jesus and i lived.

i am clean and sober, i am a functional contributing member of society (my works are none of your business), have raised two wonderful healthy children (now adults), my mind has been renewed and i have learned to be content in any situation.

don't presume to tell me i don't know about a transformed life.

you know NOTHING about the POWER of GOD.

 

[livingbygrace]

So on the one hand the continuous words of Christ concerning the neccessary belief in him needed for salvation are not accepted and then a person immediately aftyer salvation and for ther next ten years can constantly get drunk, beat their wife, have affairs, not read a bible but in all probability they remain in a saved state

Well this is a testimony to an understanding of the Bible driven by the natural mind.

This is crazy, I have never the like as what I am hearing now

 

[livingbygrace]

i was a homeless person who stabbed heroin needles in my arms.
i stumbled around under bridges looking for drops of whiskey in bottles.
i slept under newspapers.
i lost everything.
i spent two years in a catatonic depression.

then i found myself at Calvary. i heard the Law and i died.
i saw Jesus and i lived.

i am clean and sober, i am a functional contributing member of society (my works are none of your business), have raised two wonderful healthy children (now adults), my mind has been renewed and i have learned to be content in any situation.

don't presume to tell me i don't know about a transformed life.

you know NOTHING about the POWER of GOD.

Well that is an assumption that I know nothing about the power of God

I have not asked to know any of your works

I am sincerely glad your life has changed

But it does not alter the fact that your agreement with Red on the example given is utterly wrong

 

[zone]

So on the one hand the continuous words of Christ concerning the neccessary belief in him needed for salvation are not accepted and then a person immediately aftyer salvation and for ther next ten years can constantly get drunk, beat their wife, have affairs, not read a bible but in all probability they remain in a saved state

Well this is a testimony to an understanding of the Bible driven by the natural mind.

This is crazy, I have never the like as what I am hearing now

general reply
(likely to be construed by some as antinomianism..oh well):

some entirely miss the point of what Red is saying.

Red is talking about God's MERCY AND GRACE - two words which are meaningless without the unworthy objects of that Mercy and Grace - sinners.

 

[livingbygrace]

general reply
(likely to be construed by some as antinomianism..oh well):

some entirely miss the point of what Red is saying.

Red is talking about God's MERCY AND GRACE - two words which are meaningless without the unworthy objects of that Mercy and Grace - sinners.

And some are missing the blindingly obvious truth of this

Grace changes lives, it must, therefore a person COULD NOT remain in that state for ten tears immediately after a conversion experiance was claimed IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE

 

[Red33]

The mind is a soul faculty. Your overview shows you don't have an understanding of man's constitution as spirit-soul-body. Wisdom is not what you describe it to be, either.



Getting closer.

First of all there is no need to cover every aspect of the human soul when giving that post because I was only dealing with the human faculty of the mind, which is only one of the (5) parts that make up the human soul (psuche). That would be for another thread but not here. But to suffice your appetite, the human soul consists of these...

1 - the mind, is the faculty of the human soul that allows us to think and reason in terms of knowledge and understanding and the faulty that gives place or rejects that information

2 - the emotions, is that part of the soul that appreciates and responds to what we know in the mind. The emotions have no capacity to think or reason, they can only appreciate.

3 - the volition, is the decision maker and human will and that part of the soul that makes decision based upon the what has been received through many types of knowledge

4 - the conscience, is where all the norms and standards of life are stored, that we have received through knowledge, through the moral law, through our experience and what has been projected upon us through the world system and what we have internalize in the details of life.

5 - the conscious capacity, which is that part and depth that makes up the inner man of the heart and where the human spirit dwells, that includes the memory center that makes us conscious of self or man or God-conscious when it is quickened by the word of God through the Holy Spirit.

All of these make up who a man is and it takes the breath of the Spirit through the word to make the spirit and soul of a man to become alive and quickened unto God. When we were dead in trespasses and sins, the human spirit was dormant and the human soul was dead through sin, but the body was alive and functioned as an organism through self-consciousness and self-preservation and responded only to what the human soul is occupied with.

 

[Red33]

Well you haven't answered my question(yet again) this is becoming monotonous!

I could give you many scriptrures to show you your error in this, but what would be the point, plainly written scripture is not your bottom line

Can you tell me how long it may take to convict an individual not to constantly, beat their wife, get drunk and have continuos affairs? Obviously longer than ten years to you

For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace

How does this fit in with your belief on this subject?

The strength of sin is in the law (1Cor 15:56) and God knows that and gave the law for that reason (Rom 7:12,13). But Christ came by grace and truth (Jn 1:17) and put us under grace (Rom 6:14,15) so that when we sin we would not be strengthened in it but that we would respond to grace to be forgiven and cleansed and not continue in it. So when you see sin abounding in the life of another, grace much more abounds (Rom 5:15,17,20). Why? Shouldn't we be rebuking them for their sin? No! They need the grace of God to give them the strength they need so that they can break that bond and not continue in sin.

When we were in sin God came and through the cross gave us grace, didn't He? God has never required repentance to get grace, just humility, and a person is going to respond to grace and not the law when they are in sin. Telling people to repent all the time becomes a law and they reject that because when they try to repent it only strengthens their sin and they keep failing. However, when you give them an abundance of grace and they respond in humility, that grace imparts what they need to not continue in their sin which they have been dominated by. The law nor repentance has the power to free a person from sin, only grace does through the blood, the word and the Spirit. The blood to cleanse them, the word to keep them clean and the Spirit so that they keep from fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

That is why God was manifest in the flesh through the person of Jesus Christ, who was justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory (1Tim 3:16).