Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

[FreeGrace2]

Freegrace said 'It is the beast , FP, and the devil who are the first to be cast into the lake of fire This shows what will happen to everyone else who will be cast into the lake of fire'.





If it is the beast , FP, and the devil who are the first to be cast into the lake of fire This shows what will happen to everyone else who will be cast into the lake of fire.

And that information is all found here in Rev 19:19

All? No, not all the information. 19:20 describes the beast and FP. 20:10 describes the devil. 20:15 describes ALL the rest of the unbelievers.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

AGAIN, NOT one word about souls consciously suffering and in torment forever and ever in the lake of fire. Just as I said.

You aren't including ALL the verse that describe everyone. Don't be dishonest. Add to 19:20 20:10 and 20:15 and THEN you have everyone.

You claim that it says that but AGAIN, that isn't what is written.

It is when you include ALL the verses, not just the one you obsess on.

If so then copy and paste and HIGHLIGHT THE WORDS OF GOD and quit using your own. You can end this whole thing quickly and easily by

1. Admitting the error BY NOT GIVING a 'copy and paste and HIGHLIGHTED' Scripture stating souls are tormented forever and ever in the lake of fire
or
2. Proving me WRONG by GIVING a copy and paste and HIGHLIGHTED Scripture STATING WHAT YOU STATE IS STATED .

End of beast and FP
Rev 19:20 - But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

End of the devil
Rev 20:10 - And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The "they in v.10 refers to the beast, FP AND the devil.

End of all unbelievers
Rev 20:15 - Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

These are the direct words of God.

Any more questions?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you think their resurrected physical bodies will be tormented for ever and ever? Of course not. That's why the LOF is called the "SECOND DEATH". The unsaved's bodies will die again. But not their souls.

TO WHICH KLERONOMOS replied: Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

TO WHICH freegrace REPLIED
Show me ANY verse that actually says that God DOES and HAS destroyed souls.

The FACT that He is able to doesn't mean that He has or will. That's another problem you have. Of course he is able, and that is ALL the verse says.

Now, show me any verse that shows souls being killed.

btw, "hell' in the Greek is Hades in the Hebrew. That is a holding tank for unbelievers until they join with their physical body that will be resurrected for the GWT judgment, and then the FINAL judgment, the LOF.

Why would I show you any verse 'that actually says that God DOES and HAS destroyed souls' or any that 'show me any verse that shows souls being killed'

I have no idea why you are asking me these questions.

Are you kidding???

Because YOU claim that God kills souls. But Matt 10:28 DOESN'T SAY that God kills souls. It says that God IS ABLE to kill souls.

But you seem unable to grasp the difference.

In case you have forgotten, you are teaching souls are tormented forever and ever, and I am teaching they are not, they are consumed and it ends.[/QUOTE]
No, not me. The Bible teaches it. Rev 20:10 is clear enough for grade schoolers to understand.

The words "day and night for ever and ever" is real clear. You just don't like it and ignore it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I think that souls being consumed is the only thing that will end all the arguing!

That would mean that the arguing will NEVER end then. Kinda like "day and night for ever and ever".

 

[kleronomos]

You aren't including ALL the verse that describe everyone. Don't be dishonest. Add to 19:20 20:10 and 20:15 and THEN you have everyone.

But you act like there are not distinguishing marks between them, like between SATAN and common deceived folk.

One was GODS BEST invention EVER, who went from being most trusted to one who set about to destroy all God made and loved while the other believed a lie, A lie mind you that will have lying signs and wonders about it and that if GOD had not shortened the time, WOULD HAVE DECEIVED even Gods very Elect.

BUT for you, treat 'em all the same. Conscious torment for ever and ever and ever....Yeah, that sounds about right. REALLLY? Not to me. No matter how much you try and attach what is given to one to another.

Maybe that is why I see the distinctions you do not.


And in answer to a question you asked a while ago


2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

2 Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption

 

[kleronomos]

It is when you include ALL the verses, not just the one you obsess on.

Don't you think we could do without all the name calling and back stabbing now. It really shreds the credibility.

 

[kleronomos]

End of all unbelievers
Rev 20:15 - Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

These are the direct words of God.

Any more questions?

AGREED, it SAYS thrown into the lake of fire.

WHERE IS THE FOREVER AND EVER FATE OF THEM??? Just because the fate of the Devil the beast and the fp is IN THE LAKE AND forever

IT DOESN'T SAY that is what theirs is. Yes they go into the Lake. I have never stated they did not.

BUT again, just because the fate of a few is eternal, doesn't ALLOW US TO ASSUME it applies to all that go in. And there is much more written stating that is not the case.


When it isn't written, it is an assumption, nothing more. So, it shouldn't BE TAUGHT as a truth of GOD, BECAUSE GOD never said it.


Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


EVERY WORD because GOD makes distinctions by ONLY one or two words sometimes , which make all the difference in the world.

 

[kleronomos]

Are you kidding???

Because YOU claim that God kills souls. But Matt 10:28 DOESN'T SAY that God kills souls. It says that God IS ABLE to kill souls.

But you seem unable to grasp the difference.

In case you have forgotten, you are teaching souls are tormented forever and ever, and I am teaching they are not, they are consumed and it ends.

No, not me. The Bible teaches it. Rev 20:10 is clear enough for grade schoolers to understand.

The words "day and night for ever and ever" is real clear. You just don't like it and ignore it.[/QUOTE]


Wow, almost wish I read this first, but the previous posts covered these errors.


I am done with the unnecessary sinful flesh in control of you nasty comments you keep throwing my way. Make it stop. EVERY IDLE WORD, and you are banking up a lot of them, and not just with me. Word to the wise...



May GOD lead and guide us.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
You aren't including ALL the verse that describe everyone. Don't be dishonest. Add to 19:20 20:10 and 20:15 and THEN you have everyone.

But you act like there are not distinguishing marks between them, like between SATAN and common deceived folk.

I am pointing out that all unbelievers will receive the SAME END as will the beast, FP and Satan. If you disagree, prove your case. I used Scripture.

One was GODS BEST invention EVER, who went from being most trusted to one who set about to destroy all God made and loved while the other believed a lie, A lie mind you that will have lying signs and wonders about it and that if GOD had not shortened the time, WOULD HAVE DECEIVED even Gods very Elect.

What is your point here?

BUT for you, treat 'em all the same.

As does the Bible. Is that too much for you?

Conscious torment for ever and ever and ever....Yeah, that sounds about right. REALLLY? Not to me.

What does your opinion count next to what the Bible says?

No matter how much you try and attach what is given to one to another.

Maybe that is why I see the distinctions you do not.

Then explain them, finally.

And in answer to a question you asked a while ago
2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2 Peter 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2 Peter 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption

Could you have at least included the question? You know, for context's sake.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
It is when you include ALL the verses, not just the one you obsess on.

Don't you think we could do without all the name calling and back stabbing now. It really shreds the credibility.

Do you really know what "shreds credibility"? When a poster makes FALSE CLAIMS AND ACCUSATIONS, oh, just like YOU do.

Can you point out what "name" I called you, and where I "back stabbed" you, please?

No, you can't because I NEVER have done that. You just don't like being refuted, so in defense, you MAKE UP STUFF to throw at me, like your comment above, which is patently false.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
End of all unbelievers
Rev 20:15 - Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

These are the direct words of God.

Any more questions?

AGREED, it SAYS thrown into the lake of fire.

WHERE IS THE FOREVER AND EVER FATE OF THEM??? Just because the fate of the Devil the beast and the fp is IN THE LAKE AND forever

IT DOESN'T SAY that is what theirs is. Yes they go into the Lake. I have never stated they did not.

BUT again, just because the fate of a few is eternal, doesn't ALLOW US TO ASSUME it applies to all that go in. And there is much more written stating that is not the case.


When it isn't written, it is an assumption, nothing more. So, it shouldn't BE TAUGHT as a truth of GOD, BECAUSE GOD never said it.

Since the beast, FP and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire, and will be there for ever and ever, why can't you believe that the rest of all unbelievers won't be there for ever and ever?

They are going to the same place. For the same reason. I'm really sorry that you can't or aren't connecting the dots.

However, if the souls of unbelievers will cease to exist, then there is NO MORE punishment for them. It ends. But the Bible speaks of eternal punishment. That PROVES a conscious existence eternally.

Matt 25:46 - And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
2 Thess 1:9 - e who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
Jude 1:7 - just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

There is NO punishment beyond consciousness. Even in a coma, the person isn't feeling anything.

This is your hangup. You just don't like the idea of an unbeliever suffering eternally. But the Bible says they will.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Are you kidding???

Because YOU claim that God kills souls. But Matt 10:28 DOESN'T SAY that God kills souls. It says that God IS ABLE to kill souls.

But you seem unable to grasp the difference.

In case you have forgotten, you are teaching souls are tormented forever and ever, and I am teaching they are not, they are consumed and it ends. Rev 20:10 is clear enough for grade schoolers to understand.

The words "day and night for ever and ever" is real clear. You just don't like it and ignore it.[/QUOTE]
Wow, almost wish I read this first, but the previous posts covered these errors.

I am done with the unnecessary sinful flesh in control of you nasty comments you keep throwing my way

"nasty comments", eh? Like simply disagreeing with you?

Make it stop.

Take a pill. Or show me SPECIFICALLY any "nasty comments" I've made to you.

EVERY IDLE WORD, and you are banking up a lot of them, and not just with me. Word to the wise...
May GOD lead and guide us.

He does lead and guide me. My prayers SPECIFICALLY ask for that. And wisdom and discernment per James 1.

 

[RichGladden]

Left Behind Secret Rapture is a lie made up by Satan.

Remember, Left Behind Secret Rapture and rapture are two different things.

The bottom link talks about the rapture and what is rapture.

http://testallthings.com/2010/05/31/when-is-the-rapture/


The Word of God says that Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, John 17:15

We don't know the exact day, time and hour of the Real Jesus Christ 2nd Coming, but we do know the signs.

Before the Real Jesus Christ comes back: Great earthquake that shakes Earth and Heaven, sun shall be turned into darkness, moon into blood, stars shall withdraw their shining, heaven rolled like a scroll, every mountain and island moved out of their places, great hail out of heaven pelting on some of Satan's children on earth.

Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 38:19-23, Joel 2:10-11, Joel 2:30-32, Haggai 2:6, 21, Matthew 24:29-34, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:24-29, Mark 13:31, Acts 2:19-20, Luke 21:25-33 and Hebrews 12:26-28, Revelation 6:12-17, Compare Daniel 7:13-14, 27, Ezekiel 13:13, Revelation 11:15-19, Revelation 16:17-21

http://repent5610.blogspot.com/2012/12/there-is-no-secret-rapture.html

If you are interested in freedom from sin and how do we receive the Holy Spirit? read below.
After God gave me the Holy Spirit, I found proof that TV, movies, novels, music, video games and computer games are all sins, except Christian stuff that don’t have sins like sermons and Christian music words that gives messages. I found out that in them there is lying, stealing, adultery (Matthew 5:28 looking at someone with lust is adultery), fornication which is sex before marriage, revenge, murder, jealousy, pride=self-pity, hypocrisy, using God’s name in vain as a curse word, they are all idols (breaks 2nd Commandment) because most people can’t live without them and they love them more than God and more. Just read the 10 commandments for a list.

1 John 2:15 King James Version (KJV)


15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 New King James Version

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Now I will be preaching about how to receive the Holy Spirit and be 100% going to Heaven.

First, it’s only by the grace of God that he gives you faith in Jesus Christ in order to give up your sins. It’s only by the grace of God that he leads you to pray to him to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or any sinful desires. When you pray to God to destroy all your evil desires of watching TV or sinful desires (Romans 6:6-7 and Galatians 5:24), Satan will intervene and extremely tempt you in watching the TV. But if it’s God’s will and if you are one of God’s elects, you will overcome it and God will destroy all your evil desires of watching TV. After God has destroyed all your evil desires of watching TV and if you are one of God’s elects, you receive the joy of the Holy Spirit for about 40 minutes. After the joy wears off, all existence of boredom no longer exists and you no longer burn out (psychology) anymore. That is when you have received the Holy Spirit.

Then it’s by the grace of God that he forgives you of your sins, as you confess and repent of your sins throughout your life which is called sanctification. But you can watch Christian stuff that don’t have sins (Like sermons) because that helps you grow more mature as a Christian spiritually and for more information about this sermon, go to spreadthegospel59.wordpress.com then go to
The short version of “To be free from sin (sin deceives and hurts everyone) and how do we receive the Holy Spirit?”

Why does God hate sin? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that “you were bought with a price” (1 Corinthians 6:20; 7:23)? | GotQuestions.org
Sin Will Never Make You Happy
(What does the Bible say about hypocrisy? | GotQuestions.org)
Gives thanks to God, that you are free from sin (sin deceives=never satisfied no matter how many times you do it,
gives pain, makes you guilty, go from bad to worse)
if you are one of God’s elect, to fight off self-pity is to give thanks to God for everything. What does the Bible say about self-pity? | GotQuestions.org
Is eternal security a “license” to sin? | GotQuestions.org

The reason why am hated for no reason since I were physically born and never fit in is because am one of God’s elects. (John 15:18-19)


Just so you know Jesus had to carry all of God’s elects sins and endure the punishment for God’s elects sins which is Hellfire spiritually, which is extreme love and mercy.
Go to the bottom website, for better explanation.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/jesus-eternal-punishment-hours/

I agree with "After Trib" theology 100%. I know many think it heresy and unbiblical, but I have looked at the data they provide and find no evidense whereas Matthew 24 sys it plainly, in black and white (make that red and white) "After the tribulations of those days..."

What I find difficult, my own thorn in my side, is watching preaching, thinking I finally have found a preacher that knows the scriptures, and then he says something like, " It can happen at any moment!". And I wonder if he is wrong in that, what else has he said that was wrong, and I did not catch it. I then find it hard to listen to him again.

 

[kleronomos]

I am pointing out that all unbelievers will receive the SAME END as will the beast, FP and Satan. If you disagree, prove your case. I used Scripture.

I disagree with what you have CONCLUDED from piecing together Scripture.

I have proved my case. It didn't meet with your approval but then again, it really wasn't meant to, it was meant to meet with GODS APPROVAL.

 

[kleronomos]

As does the Bible. Is that too much for you?

That is in error

No, you can't because I NEVER have done that. You just don't like being refuted, so in defense, you MAKE UP STUFF to throw at me, like your comment above, which is patently false.

That makes it even worse.

Since the beast, FP and Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire, and will be there for ever and ever, why can't you believe that the rest of all unbelievers won't be there for ever and ever?

because IT ISN'T WRITTEN. IT IS YOUR CONCLUSION.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I am pointing out that all unbelievers will receive the SAME END as will the beast, FP and Satan. If you disagree, prove your case. I used Scripture.

I disagree with what you have CONCLUDED from piecing together Scripture.

That is fine. No problem. Fortunately, the doctrine of the eternal lake of fire doesn't affect one's eternity.

I have proved my case.

Actually, the Bible words are against your case.

It didn't meet with your approval but then again, it really wasn't meant to, it was meant to meet with GODS APPROVAL.

That's the only approval that matters!

However, "day and night for ever and ever" applies to all who will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
No, you can't because I NEVER have done that. You just don't like being refuted, so in defense, you MAKE UP STUFF to throw at me, like your comment above, which is patently false.

That makes it even worse.

YOU keep making it worse.

because IT ISN'T WRITTEN. IT IS YOUR CONCLUSION.

Nope. It IS written. Clearly. But you are welcome to your own conclusion.

As I said, the doctrine of eternity for unbelievers won't alter anyone's eternity.

My only goal is to believe what the Bible says. And since you can't find any verse that says that God HAS or WILL kill any souls, you have no point.

 

[kleronomos]

I am pointing out that all unbelievers will receive the SAME END as will the beast, FP and Satan. If you disagree, prove your case. I used Scripture.

How many people read this and think it's been shown time and again yet the question is asked yet again. What is the REAL purpose of such actions?
It can only be deception of some sort, or pride. So I will not answer it again by now it doesn't matter because what you are doing doesn't go away. EVERY IDLE word. I wonder if that equates to time that is basically stolen.

What does your opinion count next to what the Bible says?

NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS but WHAT YOU SAY THE BIBLE SAYS

"nasty comments", eh? Like simply disagreeing with you?

Just going to keep going back to the same post over and over for this? So many tells.

Take a pill.

This is your hangup. You just don't like the idea of an unbeliever suffering eternally. But the Bible says they will.

You say it, the bible is specific in WHO does, you just don't like your understanding not being what is written.

My only goal is to believe what the Bible says. And since you can't find any verse that says that God HAS or WILL kill any souls, you have no point.

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.


Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.


Have yourself a nice day, a nice week, a nice life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I am pointing out that all unbelievers will receive the SAME END as will the beast, FP and Satan. If you disagree, prove your case. I used Scripture.

How many people read this and think it's been shown time and again yet the question is asked yet again.

This is one of the reasons we don't agree. You seem to think it's about voting; how many for and how many against. I am only interested in what the Bible says. I have used Scripture. You haven't yet shown that God HAS or WILL kill souls. You haven't yet shown that punishment is experienced when a person no longer exists.

So, those are 2 things you need to prove from Scripture in order to make your case.

So I will not answer it again

I have NEVER refused to give my answer, even to posts who keep asking. I believe that TRUTH always has the answer.

But, those who refuse to answer show that they either:
1. don't really have the answer and they know it
2. aren't really sure of their answer.

NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS but WHAT YOU SAY THE BIBLE SAYS

OK, show me where I've said what the Bible says but doesn't. ie; prove your claim.

Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.[/QUOTE]
Do you understand that the bolded words of Jude 1:5 refers to their physical bodies? Read 1 Cor 10 for Paul's take on the Exodus generation. Their bodies were strewn over the desert during their 40 year march.

So Jude 1:5 doesn't support ANYTHING you say about soul annihilation. In fact, your inclusion of that verse in your non-existent defense proves that you don't even understand Scripture.

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

And, once again, the last verse here doesn't in ANY WAY support your soul annihilation belief. In fact, it supports my belief; that those condemned to the lake of fire will be there "for ever", just as the verse ends. And there will be no light there.

Have yourself a nice day, a nice week, a nice life.

That's up to the Lord.

btw, are you just being snarky here? It's hard to imagine that you mean any of that.

Hm, what's the word for saying one thing but having the exact opposite meaning?