Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.

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Laura798

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Here the blind man explains and explains--yet his explanation never satisfies them.

The Pharisees Interrogate the Blind Man
13 Then they took to the Pharisees the man who had been blind. 14 The day that Jesus made the mud and cured him of his blindness was a Sabbath. 15 The Pharisees, then, asked the man again how he had received his sight. He told them, “He put some mud on my eyes; I washed my face, and now I can see.”


16 Some of the Pharisees said, “The man who did this cannot be from God, for he does not obey the Sabbath law.” Others, however, said, “How could a man who is a sinner perform such miracles as these?” And there was a division among them. 17 So the Pharisees asked the man once more, “You say he cured you of your blindness — well, what do you say about him?”
“He is a prophet,” the man answered.


18 The Jewish authorities, however, were not willing to believe that he had been blind and could now see, until they called his parents 19 and asked them, “Is this your son? You say that he was born blind; how is it, then, that he can now see?” 20 His parents answered, “We know that he is our son, and we know that he was born blind. 21 But we do not know how it is that he is now able to see, nor do we know who cured him of his blindness. Ask him; he is old enough, and he can answer for himself!” 22 His parents said this because they were afraid of the Jewish authorities, who had already agreed that anyone who said he believed that Jesus was the Messiah would be expelled from the synagogue. 23 That is why his parents said, “He is old enough; ask him!”

24 A second time they called back the man who had been born blind, and said to him, “Promise before God that you will tell the truth! We know that this man who cured you is a sinner.” 25 “I do not know if he is a sinner or not,” the man replied. “One thing I do know: I was blind, and now I see.” 26 “What did he do to you?” they asked. “How did he cure you of your blindness?” 27 “I have already told you,” he answered, “and you would not listen. Why do you want to hear it again? Maybe you, too, would like to be his disciples?” 28 They cursed him and said, “You are that fellow’s disciple; but we are Moses’ disciples. 29 We know that God spoke to Moses; as for that fellow, however, we do not even know where he comes from!” 30 The man answered, “What a strange thing that is! You do not know where he comes from, but he cured me of my blindness! 31 We know that God does not listen to sinners; he does listen to people who respect him and do what he wants them to do. 32 Since the beginning of the world nobody has ever heard of anyone giving sight to a person born blind. 33 Unless this man came from God, he would not be able to do a thing.34 They answered, “You were born and brought up in sin — and you are trying to teach us?” And they expelled him from the synagogue.

Spiritual Blindness
35 When Jesus heard what had happened, he found the man and asked him, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36 The man answered, “Tell me who he is, sir, so that I can believe in him!”
37 Jesus said to him, “You have already seen him, and he is the one who is talking with you now.” 38 “I believe, Lord!” the man said, and knelt down before Jesus.
39Jesus said, “I came to this world to judge, so that the blind should see and those who see should become blind.” 40 Some Pharisees who were there with him heard him say this and asked him, “Surely you don’t mean that we are blind, too?” 41 Jesus answered, “If you were blind, then you would not be guilty; but since you claim that you can see, this means that you are still guilty.”
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2--not to interrupt your dialogue, but I must say it is why the Roman Catholics burned Christians at the stake and destroyed Bibles--the very Word of God! They hated the truth and would prefer man's teaching over that of the Creator and Father.

Yes, ma'am!


The Roman Catholic Church states that the Pope's words are God and he stands in the place of Christ here on earth.
I see this repeatedly in these forums--people arguing from the doctrine of what they have been taught--just as cults and Roman Catholics do, as well as isolating verses and not looking at the whole of scripture. It's sad but true, "If you tell a lie often enough, it becomes the truth."
So sad.


"Cardinal Sarto, who became Pope Pius X, said this: "The Pope represents Jesus Christ Himself..." Sadly, there are Christians who would disagree with this, yet put their pastors teachings above the word of God.
Yes. They do it and deny that they are doing it.


"Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world."
--1st John 1:41
Great verse. Another verse that taught me how to study the Bible is Acts 17:11 and the Bereans. I love how they were described: "they were more noble than the Thessalonians, and they searched the Scriptures daily to SEE IF WHAT PAUL SAID WAS TRUE.

That's why I so emphasize "what verse actually says that?" to those who make claims but don't provide verses that actually say what they claim. All the while claiming the verses do.
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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LOL, is my nature, I use it quite a bit! Sorry you have taken that the wrong way!

Where has @FreeGrace2 shown me in scripture where the Church goes through the tribulation and then resurrected at the Second Coming? That's what we were discussing and it has not been shown!
Sure it was. First I proved that there is only ONE resurrection for believers. It was in the list I already gave but you have so far ignored.

Then, I quoted Rev 20:4,5 that PROVES the resurrection of the Trib martyrs is when Christ comes to earth and they reign with Him for 1,000 years. And v.5 says in clear language that is the FIRST resurrection.

The second resurrection is for the unsaved and will occur just before the GWT judgment in Rev 20:11-15.

It's sad that you make such erroneous claims when the evidence is already out there.
 

Charlie24

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Oct 31, 2021
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Sure it was. First I proved that there is only ONE resurrection for believers. It was in the list I already gave but you have so far ignored.

Then, I quoted Rev 20:4,5 that PROVES the resurrection of the Trib martyrs is when Christ comes to earth and they reign with Him for 1,000 years. And v.5 says in clear language that is the FIRST resurrection.

The second resurrection is for the unsaved and will occur just before the GWT judgment in Rev 20:11-15.

It's sad that you make such erroneous claims when the evidence is already out there.
I don't see it that way at all! I see the 144,000 resurrected near and around the mid-point of the tribulation.

Then all the tribulation saints who believed during the tribulation resurrected just after the the Second Coming.

But before all this, the rapture takes place as Paul described it before the tribulation begins.
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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Yes, ma'am!


So sad.


Yes. They do it and deny that they are doing it.


Great verse. Another verse that taught me how to study the Bible is Acts 17:11 and the Bereans. I love how they were described: "they were more noble than the Thessalonians, and they searched the Scriptures daily to SEE IF WHAT PAUL SAID WAS TRUE.

That's why I so emphasize "what verse actually says that?" to those who make claims but don't provide verses that actually say what they claim. All the while claiming the verses do.
Yes the Berean verse is one of my favs. And you know when the scales started falling off my eyes? When I left the institutional church--it was a domino effect....there are so many false doctrines in the churches.
 

Charlie24

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Oct 31, 2021
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Thank you for your appropriate usage of LOL. I am appeased.
And good thing too--I'm a bit of a hacker and had just discovered
where you live...


I don't know if should send another LOL or a COL (cry out loud).
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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Okay, i see I've embarrassed you. Charlie...
Alright everyone who saw the straw house--that isn't Charlie's real house this is his real, true house. For realz....:sneaky:




And here's Charlie if you were curious...
smokingjacket.jpeg
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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I don't see it that way at all! I see the 144,000 resurrected near and around the mid-point of the tribulation.
What makes you think that the 144,000 are resurrected? There is not even a hint of that in Revelation.

And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel... And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads...These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

So these men were not resurrected but raptured to the throne of God.
 

Charlie24

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don't bow out until you've seen last pic! at least you could bow out with a chuckle....
When dealing with women my dad taught me to be satisfied with just being able to bow out! lol
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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I don't see it that way at all! I see the 144,000 resurrected near and around the mid-point of the tribulation.
Then you need to explain Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, and 1 Cor 15:23 that all indicate with clear language that there is A resurrection. That doesn't mean several.

Have you ever thought that Rev 14 is a "look-see" towards the end of the Trib. Kinda like a preview?

But whatever, with your "several resurrections" view, there are verses that refute that clearly. I don't have to explain them. They say it straight out.

Then all the tribulation saints who believed during the tribulation resurrected just after the the Second Coming.
That would be the SINGULAR resurrecrtion.

But before all this, the rapture takes place as Paul described it before the tribulation begins.
Please show me a verse that clearly shows Jesus taking raptured believers to heaven. That's where the pretrib hang-up is. There aren't any.

But since you think that will happen, what verse or verses informs you of that?
 

FreeGrace2

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Jan 31, 2021
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Yes the Berean verse is one of my favs. And you know when the scales started falling off my eyes? When I left the institutional church--it was a domino effect....there are so many false doctrines in the churches.
So true! Just stick around the forums for a bit. very common.

By "institutional church", could you clarify a bit? Not trying to pry. It's OK to say "nun-ya bidnez".

My early years were in a very liberal United Presbyterian church, which has gone off the rails. Then to Baptist, mostly GARBC types. Now I'm in an independent church, with a "baptist flavor".

But with the mixture of Arminian and reformed ideas swirling around, lots of, as you say, false doctrines.
 

peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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I don't see it that way at all! I see the 144,000 resurrected near and around the mid-point of the tribulation.

Then all the tribulation saints who believed during the tribulation resurrected just after the the Second Coming.

But before all this, the rapture takes place as Paul described it before the tribulation begins.
Please show me if it is from the Bible?
 

Laura798

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Jun 6, 2020
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So true! Just stick around the forums for a bit. very common.

By "institutional church", could you clarify a bit? Not trying to pry. It's OK to say "nun-ya bidnez".

My early years were in a very liberal United Presbyterian church, which has gone off the rails. Then to Baptist, mostly GARBC types. Now I'm in an independent church, with a "baptist flavor".

But with the mixture of Arminian and reformed ideas swirling around, lots of, as you say, false doctrines.
The whole lot of them! Here's my list--not in chronological order. And I am odd man out in most of my beliefs, but I comfort myself in the knowledge that out of possibly billions only 8 escaped the world wide flood and only 3 out of the 1000s in Sodom and Gomorrah (some number it upwards of 100,000 or more)

1. As a child Southern Baptist
2. Free Methodist
3. Non-denominational
4. Presbyterian Churches of America
5. Visited Calvary Chapel Churches a few times
6. Evangelical something or other, but more like the Emergent church
7. Church of Christ--not any of the weird ones though did visit the Boston Church of Christ a few times back in the day--they've since changed their name.

Have researched various and sundry churches--looked for a house church to no avail.

ALL without exception have some kind of false doctrine. The nondenoms are fuzzy about what they believe and are holding hands with the world--they don't want to rock the boat--often they have no statement of faith--man focused rather than Christ focused. And the incredible waste of money on the building and programs--a person can attend there for years and never making any true connections--movie trailer sermons, "Tune in next week!" and the next and the next--if you've gone to one nondenom you've pretty much seen them all. Same worship songs, same worship team with the same skinny jeans and untucked plaid shirts and tennis shoes--oh wait that the 60+ year old pastor trying to be hip...ugh and double ugh. It's like the movie Ground Hog Day meets the Twilight Zone..
..:(
 

Charlie24

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Oct 31, 2021
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and you gotta know when to fold 'em too.;)

That is the question, which is the fold and which is the hold! Very difficult in many different ways.

Just go fishing and let it work itself out, is what dad said, lol.